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ladndad

Where do we go from here

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The only way forward as I see it is to field a settled team and try to achieve some continuity.Its obvious that constantly chopping and changing personel is achieving nothing beneficial other than giving game time to certain players who's ultimate allegiance to another club.Most of the players on the field last night were Swinton Players ,lets try to keep it that way and use the DR agreement in an emergency.It was interesting listening to one individual last night involved in dual registration at another club.It was obvious he Didnt really want to play for that club but was doing so because his club had instructed him too.

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emergency.It was interesting listening to one individual last night involved in dual registration at another club.It was obvious he Didnt really want to play for that club but was doing so because his club had instructed him too.

 

Interesting to hear you say that, Duffy. I think several clubs using DR are experiencing the same thing. Some players come and give it 100% whereas others just go through the motions. Felt sorry for Richie Hawkyard and one or two others last night. A certain player who I have always rated offensively had an absolute 'mare in defence for you last night ! Sad to see Lions fans so disillusioned - hope, somehow it turns around for you...

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Anyone know the official attendance figure last night? Cheers

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What was expected of the 6 Warrington players who signed for Swinton for this season but were still obviously under the control of Warrington?    Those young lads all knew that come what may at the end of this season they would once again revert to being Warrington players.    I have read a comment on here that you need to get rid of certain players and one mentioned was Ryan Shaw.    This lad played on DR for Barrow last season and had a great season and certainly Barrow and Workington would have liked to have signed him, I'm sure.    So what is the reason if he is now playing so poorly that he can be dispensed with?

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Hi Keith

We can't get rid of Ryan i have sponsored him for the season !!

Riggy

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I do not think it right to single out Ryan Shaw, he is an excellent goal kicker and good attacking centre, his defence is not the best - but any decent coach would see this and try and improve that aspect of the player's game and while that is happening the "team" needs to pay attention to its weaknesses and a collective. Of course it all falls down if the weakness out weight the strengths of the team.

For me DR has not helped simply because it has meant the team has not been settled and to be honest Warrington want to develop their younger players so putting a player out to loan with another SL club is in their opinion better grounding that playing for Swinton........also it has meant certain players are consistently played out of position, e.g. playing Ainscough in the centre - for which he is not big enough and then when he is played at stand off he is expected to become a game breaker when has not played regularly in the position etc.

Above all else we have a real problem when Mark Smith is not on the field - our play the balls are generally slower that the opposition and worst of all we never run from deep, always have a flat attacking line - which is why Halifax intercepted three pass because our attacking line was flat so the long pass was so inviting....

So for me it has to be a settled team first and foremost only then can the team gel and develop confidence, spirit and hopefully the ability to win games.

 

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Anyone know the official attendance figure last night? Cheers

on the Swinton Lions fans page someone has given the figure of 201,not sure if that is the official figure.

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Anyone know the official attendance figure last night? Cheers

 

 

Probably a good idea to give the figure in Roman numerals as a lot of folk won't realise just how low the numbers were.

 

Match attendance = CCI  (figure that one out eh?)

 

               

 

 

:wizard:

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Above all else we have a real problem when Mark Smith is not on the field 

 

Smithy is one of the very few clever ball players we have, coupled with his quick brain and eye for any opportunity to take the ball forward into the opponents' space. He leads by example and is sorely missed when off the pitch.

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What was expected of the 6 Warrington players who signed for Swinton for this season but were still obviously under the control of Warrington?    Those young lads all knew that come what may at the end of this season they would once again revert to being Warrington players.    I have read a comment on here that you need to get rid of certain players and one mentioned was Ryan Shaw.    This lad played on DR for Barrow last season and had a great season and certainly Barrow and Workington would have liked to have signed him, I'm sure.    So what is the reason if he is now playing so poorly that he can be dispensed with?

 

I mentioned Ryan Shaw in another post, but by no means meant him individually, my point was that players such as he and other Warrington lads just dont seem up to the standard in this league. Im sure surrounded by a solid team under a good coach he would learn and adapt pretty quickly, but when hes thrown in at the deep end with other youngsters, their lack of physical ability and mistakes due to inexperience are in abundance.

 

Although harsh our league position is there to see. I dont think Chambers or the D.R situation helps what so ever but the lack of individual quality throughout the squad is somewhat obvious.

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I've noticed that elsewhere in the division though. 

 

I think we (Doncaster) have been pretty lucky with our DR guys, Dan Cowling has been with us for the majority of the last 2 seasons, and has been a standout performer throughout, Liam Kay had a pretty slow start this season, but his partnership with Cowling has been excellent, and Kyle Trout has filled in well in the pack, as he can play anywhere. 

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Ultimately Swinton seem to have gained the least out of DR compared with other clubs, yet received by far the most criticism. I've no doubt some might say karma. Not necessarily saying I agree by the way.

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Ultimately Swinton seem to have gained the least out of DR compared with other clubs, yet received by far the most criticism. I've no doubt some might say karma. Not necessarily saying I agree by the way.

 

I don't think Swinton would have received as much criticism if it hadn't been for the very obvious ploy of "signing" 6 Warrington players at the start of the season.    If those players had been DR players no-one would have batted an eyelid but no-one is convinced that it was nothing more than circumventing the system of only being allowed 5 DR and/or loan players.    No rules broken but it did leave a bad taste!!!

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Probably a good idea to give the figure in Roman numerals as a lot of folk won't realise just how low the numbers were.

 

Match attendance = CCI  (figure that one out eh?)

 

               

 

 

:wizard:

 

CCI? I stand corrected, should be CD (aestimatur)

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Ultimately Swinton seem to have gained the least out of DR compared with other clubs, yet received by far the most criticism. I've no doubt some might say karma. Not necessarily saying I agree by the way.

 

On one level there is an irony, but both the criticism and the poor performances have the same root cause - Swinton Lions having taken Partnering too far and gone about the whole concept in a totally ham fisted manner.

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On one level there is an irony, but both the criticism and the poor performances have the same root cause - Swinton Lions having taken Partnering too far and gone about the whole concept in a totally ham fisted manner.

But of course Leigh would never ever take DR on board would they.??

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But of course Leigh would never ever take DR on board would they.??

Not to the same extent Swinton Lions have. There are important differences in approach. Pretty much every other club has paid more attention to the risks that are inherent in Partnering and been smarter in mitigating those risks.

I don't see anyone from Wigan referring to Leigh as being their "A team / second team" etc in the manner more than one senior person from Warrington has referred to Swinton Lions. That kind of thing is a good indicator that Swinton Lions has got the culture of the Partnership badly wrong and this has been reflected in performances on the pitch and yet more damage to the brand.

I feel it comes back to the people running Swinton Lions having been too opportunistic, failing to value several factors that are fundamentally important to; building a proper team; maintaining the club's own unique identity and values, and; the integrity of the competition.

One of the most important factors for effectiveness of any side is the authority of the coach. This ought to be sacrosanct - in terms of recruitment, training regime, team selection, tactics - all of which need to be 100% targetted at what is best for development of one club only. The way Swinton Lions has operated on Partnering cut across many of these aspects, which is why it was so telling when Steve McCormack walked away and the successor emerged from Warrington's back room.

Being bottom of the league is payback for trashing the things that are key to building a team and getting the best out of them. No karma for the Swinton supporters though, who are being put through yet another betrayal of the club's heritage and identity.

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If performances/results were even half good, many might argue that the end has justified the means. But given our league position even that argument is being knocked into a cocked hat. It's therefore very difficult to disagree with Phil's post.

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Were these things done with bad intention or bad foresight though?

Its amazing how wise we can be after something pans out.

To look back Phil was and is right(its just a pity he has to be unpleasant in the process) and yes we have taken DR too far. I disagreed with playing wood Morley Briers. Many slated us for playing youngsters too.

Could we win?

Our season has become a disaster but a few results could have gone our way and it would all be ok

If we really think our views represent the swinton fan base why are there so few opinions?

Its just a few of us thinking the same but with a different perspective or philosophy on life

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There was a decent turn out at Swinton Legion when the case for the Wire link up was made. There was a few mixed views but I think it fair to say that most fans listened to the pro-case with an open mind & went away with the attitude of "okay let's give it a go." Phil has been consistent with his arguments against DR for deep-seated ethical reasons, but whilst sympathising with many of Phil's arguments others decided that we had little practical choice, and it was a price worth paying if it kept us competitive on the pitch in this crucial season (me included). But unless results improve (and I desperately want Chambers to succeed), you'd have to wonder what it's all been about. I don't think that would be hindsight, it would just be judgment by results (and more importantly where we've been left as a club).

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I was quite happy with the DR arrangement as explained at Swinton Legion.What changed my opinion was the six DR signings that suddenly became permanent Swinton players three days before the start of te season even though some of these players had signed three year contracts with Warrington in November.

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My turn I suppose.

Firstly I did feel at the start of the season that we needed a general on the field. I had hoped once we announced the deal with Wire that it would be Dwyer or O'Brian. Sadly neither panned out over the season. That is still my belief and we should have the personnel on the field to do this. Watto is slower than he was, also Smithy, but they have the experience still.

I have never been happy with the squad arrangments but was prepared to support it if that was what we had to have. I personally thought that the likes of Evans, Williams, Laithwaite, Riley and O'Brian, being on the fringe of super league selection would have given more to keep themselves on the radar. The disruption of the team week in and week out has obviously not helped.

Regarding GC, I did call for a 'marquee' signing as new coach as the right selection would have been a boost to the on and off field activities. I was disappointed with the choice but I saw the idea behind it. He has been successful at Warrington for a while and worked with a lot of the D/R players available. As it stands, the results don't lie and his arrival doesn't appear to have worked.

What I am absolutely sure of is that we are not done for just yet and it will not help in the slightest by staying away. All we can do is get behind the lads for the next game and for the rest of the season. The people with the power to change things do not stand with us but we need to stand together, roar them on and hope they come good!

I'll be there.........

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