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bedlam breakout

the death penalty

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Nor is execution, which one is least likely to cause innocent deaths? permanent incarceration or execution?

Why not put the same amount of effort into arguing for non release of convicted killers as you do to arguing for execution?

If certain killers were incarcerated for life, as in life, that would be ok by me. But as we can see, they aren't and several kill again. I can't see Europe allowing permanent incarceration in future either.

Only the other week we had the lawyers representing people like Jeremy Bamber arguing that it was 'cruel and inhuman' to make them serve their full sentence. What is next? Would you bet money that in a few years someone is arguing that it is cruel and inhuman to jail anybody at all?

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If certain killers were incarcerated for life, as in life, that would be ok by me. But as we can see, they aren't and several kill again. I can't see Europe allowing permanent incarceration in future either.

Only the other week we had the lawyers representing people like Jeremy Bamber arguing that it was 'cruel and inhuman' to make them serve their full sentence. What is next? Would you bet money that in a few years someone is arguing that it is cruel and inhuman to jail anybody at all?

Don't go getting your legal information from the right wing press.

What the EHCR said was effectively that you can't keep someone locked up forever without periodically reviewing their sentence. What can then happen is we look at the sentence, say "yup, nothing wrong with that" and keep Jeremy Bamber banged up.

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Don't go getting your legal information from the right wing press.

What the EHCR said was effectively that you can't keep someone locked up forever without periodically reviewing their sentence. What can then happen is we look at the sentence, say "yup, nothing wrong with that" and keep Jeremy Bamber banged up.

I know what it said, I'm on about what is next. What if Europe disagrees with our assessment and says 'set them free or else'...what then?

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Some of you argue for the sake. Brady has cost us £14 Million over the years and nobody can be arsed to respond to it as you are all too involved in your own ###### for tats. Should he have been hanged or is £14 mill. Money well spent?

Firstly how much would the countless appeals over the years have cost if he was sentenced to death. Your looking at millions for each court case and in America convicted killers can be on death row for years due to the appeals.

Secondly seeing as he was found to be clinicly insane he would avoid the death penalty anyway.

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I know what it said, I'm on about what is next. What if Europe disagrees with our assessment and says 'set them free or else'...what then?

And in your world of lunacy inspired by the headline writers of the Daily Express what will Europe say about execution ?

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And in your world of lunacy inspired by the headline writers of the Daily Express what will Europe say about execution ?

Lunacy? It's not me arguing that people are locked up forever when they clearly are not.

FYI, I don't buy or read a national paper. I just know how things happen today. You seriously think Europe could not make us follow any ruling they decide?

Pay someone enough money and they will defend anyone guilty of anything, its bent and totally corrupt.

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The confusion of your arguments has reached the point of parody.

I'm suggesting it would be better for us all if we locked people away instead of killing them. The choice is not between let them out or kill them and your expectation of future EU rulings seems to make the deranged ramblings of UKIP seem rational.

Are you seriously suggesting it is corrupt to allow criminals a defence lawyer?

Shall we do away with trials if it's bent and corrupt to offer a defence?

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I am saying that if someone can make a few bob out of it, they will challenge and overturn your assurance that people will be locked up forever.

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That's not necessarily relevant though. I don't think anyone involved in a murder should automatically face the death penalty. The cases I think might apply are very rare, perhaps a couple a decade, but in theses cases - the baby killer or Cregan etc- then get shot of them.

 

It is relevant if part of the argument is 'deterrent'.  We have holiday camp prisons, life sentences of a fortnight and murderers laughing at us but the murder rate is falling.

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It is relevant if part of the argument is 'deterrent'.  We have holiday camp prisons, life sentences of a fortnight and murderers laughing at us but the murder rate is falling.

 

If the prisons really are like holiday camps they must have got a helluva lot tougher than the last time I went to Butlins

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/415805/Man-accused-of-murdering-soldier-Lee-Rigby-attacked-in-Woolwich-prison

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/general-news/april-jones-killer-mark-bridger-attacked-in-wakefield-jail-1-5837007

 

Perhaps if we introduced Sharia law those who want the return of captial punishment would be happy?  We could then also have a return to corporal punishment too! Bring back the cat and the birch!  Stoning to death, decapitation, removal of thieves hands.  After all Saudi Arabia is such a good example to follow in these matters isn't it?

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I think the younger generation has much more of a progressive opinion on this matter, and I can see the law changing in the next few decades. Certainly amongst people my own age there is a clear majority in favour of an introduction of this, and whilst I don't know whether this is fact or not I have *heard* that at the moment there is a majority which is rising in the UK and elsewhere.

 

Unfortunately the constant false promotion of human rights has led to some people believing that life is sacrosanct (similar to the "all humans are "equal"" nonsense) when of course that is not the case as reason and observation would clarify.

 

Modern science really is the lynchpin here. Revolutions in forensics can usually make judgements 100% sure, something that wasn't possible in the 1950s, 60s and 70s hence the reason why some were locked away unjustly. This has always been the strongest argument against capital punishment, but one which is increasingly becoming redundant.

 

The cost of keeping a serious criminal alive, as well as the effort, under the sheer pointlessness of it definitely needs to be addressed too.

 

I would certainly like to see it introduced for terrorism offences, some murders, and in particular atrocious acts involving children (April Jones like cases). 

 

Our views on abortion have changed significantly over the past few decades and our similar views about how everyone should be forgiven and everyone has some kindness in them are fortunately being lost.

 

Of course it should not be done in the same manner that it is done by say Arab countries or say The Taliban, but some of the largest countries in the world have adopted the death penalty as a helpful tool - China, US, India, Japan - the UK will probably adopt it in the coming decades (when science will be even more meticulous).

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It is relevant if part of the argument is 'deterrent'. We have holiday camp prisons, life sentences of a fortnight and murderers laughing at us but the murder rate is falling.

But I aren't suggesting it is about detterent. We have to accept that sometimes people will commit acts of evil that are simply beyond the pale. We'll never prevent this, we might as well try and control the weather.

So rather than spend time and money worrying about why they do so, just accept it and providing there are no mental health issues, then get rid of them.

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providing there are no mental health issues.

 

So, to recap, given that Sutcliffe and Brady and in hospital rather than prison, you're happy for them to be kept alive?

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So, to recap, given that Sutcliffe and Brady and in hospital rather than prison, you're happy for them to be kept alive?

Being serious, if they are insane, then this is a different kettle of fish. But not everyone who commits such acts is insane, just nasty pieces of work.

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I think the younger generation has much more of a progressive opinion on this matter, and I can see the law changing in the next few decades. Certainly amongst people my own age there is a clear majority in favour of an introduction of this, and whilst I don't know whether this is fact or not I have *heard* that at the moment there is a majority which is rising in the UK and elsewhere.

Unfortunately the constant false promotion of human rights has led to some people believing that life is sacrosanct (similar to the "all humans are "equal"" nonsense) when of course that is not the case as reason and observation would clarify.

Modern science really is the lynchpin here. Revolutions in forensics can usually make judgements 100% sure, something that wasn't possible in the 1950s, 60s and 70s hence the reason why some were locked away unjustly. This has always been the strongest argument against capital punishment, but one which is increasingly becoming redundant.

The cost of keeping a serious criminal alive, as well as the effort, under the sheer pointlessness of it definitely needs to be addressed too.

I would certainly like to see it introduced for terrorism offences, some murders, and in particular atrocious acts involving children (April Jones like cases).

Our views on abortion have changed significantly over the past few decades and our similar views about how everyone should be forgiven and everyone has some kindness in them are fortunately being lost.

Of course it should not be done in the same manner that it is done by say Arab countries or say The Taliban, but some of the largest countries in the world have adopted the death penalty as a helpful tool - China, US, India, Japan - the UK will probably adopt it in the coming decades (when science will be even more meticulous).

Don't be so quick to trust modern methods.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/07/18/197069/fbi-announces-review-of-2000-cases.html#.Ue2IUmS9Kc0

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Being serious, if they are insane, then this is a different kettle of fish. But not everyone who commits such acts is insane, just nasty pieces of work.

 

 

but at what point does being a "nasty piece of work" (and there are many, I'm not disputing that) become insanity? I'm not point scoring here and I'm also aware that there isn't a clear dividing line between sanity/insanity. But at what point does a dangerous personality defect morph into dangerous psychotic insanity?

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but at what point does being a "nasty piece of work" (and there are many, I'm not disputing that) become insanity? I'm not point scoring here and I'm also aware that there isn't a clear dividing line between sanity/insanity. But at what point does a dangerous personality defect morph into dangerous psychotic insanity?

At the point where experts in the field ajudge it to be so

It's certainly a very grey area when considering personality disorder as opposed to say schizophrenia

Experts in the field have decided that Brady has a severe personality disorder and is therefore insane

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Thanks for posting that.

 

It's interesting but it is from 1985-2000 cases. I would still hope that in 2013 this does not happen whatsoever.

 

That's probably what they thought back then. 

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Another case that seriously challenges my sense of justice against vengeance.  Even the harshest and most unsanitary of prisons will be like a paradise compared to the treatment they gave that poor kid over that prolonged time.

Stop reading the daily hate then

They seem to revel in the horror of the situation in an almost pornographic manner.

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never mind the brady fiasco cost us half a million this week, that poor child, that poor poor child, rats I have poisoned have a better right to life than this ####

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Stop reading the daily hate then

They seem to revel in the horror of the situation in an almost pornographic manner.

I could have linked the Guardian or the Telegraph that has almost the same content.

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The fact that he is still breathing gives me the opportunity though, and I shouldn't have it.

The likes of this person have absolutely no right to be existing. They forfeit that right when they decide to, for instance, take the life of a child.

No amount of being locked up can ever make up for that.

so is it the death penalty for someone who decides to take the life of a child?

or someone who tries to take the life of a child?

or someone who does actually take the life of a child?

Where do you draw the line?

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So you'll execute someone where the victim dies immediately, within 24 hours? One month? one year?, but if the victim is saved by some miracle of modern medicine or because the ambulance gets there quickly, you won't.

 

Or because the intent is there?  You can't just say bring back the death  penalty without being ale to answer these most obvious of questions.

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