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bedlam breakout

the death penalty

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Your horse is definitely getting higher.

It does't seem to me like John is being disingenuous here at all. His stance on this is pretty straightforward, but you are plain refusing to see it.

Just answer the question. Do you think it represents a valid cost to spend £14M on keeping this man in prison?

It doesn't seem to me like he is either

He isn't in prison he is in a secure hospital because he is insane

He wantd to be in prison but was refused

Apart from the fact that he will take knowledge of still unfounded victims to his grave I wish he had topped himself years ago

As for the money it takes to keep him alive it sticks in my throat

But I don't think that we must have the death penalty because it is cheaper... It's a slippery slope

People like Brady are the barbarians not us

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John just stop it

If you believe in the death penalty and want to argue in favour of it then fine

You are not doing that by disrespecting and grossly misrepresenting the people that disagree with you

Just out forward your argument?

I haven't disrespected you or put words into your mouth.

Unless you, or anyone on here, has campaigned to release someone or signed release forms for a murderer how am I referring to you?

I haven't just said I think people who oppose the death penalty are idiots, I am referring, quite specifically, to people who release or campaign to release murderers who then kill on release.

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Unless you, or anyone on here, has campaigned to release someone or signed release forms for a murderer how am I referring to you?

I haven't just said I think people who oppose the death penalty are idiots, I am referring, quite specifically, to people who release or campaign to release murderers who then kill on release.

I'm not aware of anyone who has campaigned for the release of a murder let alone a subsequent murder committed by someone released induct circumstances

I do know of people who have murdered again who have been released on license

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I do know of people who have murdered again who have been released on license

Yes, it has happened many many times. But as we know, these innocent people don't matter as much as the other innocent people.

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Yes, it has happened many many times. But as we know, these innocent people don't matter as much as the other innocent people.

Once is too many

I'm still not sure of anyone campaigning to release a murderer and certainly not one that has gone on to murder again perhaps you have some examples

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The last Home Office stats I saw stated that in the last ten years or so, there were over thirty people who after being imprisoned for murder, were released, and killed again.  If I can find a

link I'll stick it on here.

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Once is too many

I'm still not sure of anyone campaigning to release a murderer and certainly not one that has gone on to murder again perhaps you have some examples

Somebody somewhere saw fit to release these killers. Somebody said 'yes, this person is safe to release'. It clearly wasn't and was effectively a gamble that innocent people paid with their lives. And numerous murderers are released early without it making the headlines.

If one innocent person being executed is too many (and it is) then what about the numerous innocent people killed by released killers? What is the value ratio of these people both effectively killed by the state?

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Well I think £14 million to keep Ian Brady in is money well spent.

 

Out of interest, how was that figure calculated and has it been verified by any kind of official source?

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Out of interest, how was that figure calculated and has it been verified by any kind of official source?

I have no idea but what I would like to know is that if he is insane, what is he doing conducting a media circus like the other week? If he is actually insane, who is allowing this to happen? Its effectively a freak show.

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I have no idea but what I would like to know is that if he is insane, what is he doing conducting a media circus like the other week? If he is actually insane, who is allowing this to happen? Its effectively a freak show.

 

The media created the circus.

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Out of interest, how was that figure calculated and has it been verified by any kind of official source?

Department of Guesswork probably.

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The media created the circus.

And this couldn't have been foreseen? Of course anything like this is going to be a circus so why play along with him? Any assessment can be done without the media spotlight.

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If it means we don't have a death penalty then any amount is money well spent.

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And this couldn't have been foreseen? Of course anything like this is going to be a circus so why play along with him? Any assessment can be done without the media spotlight.

 

I forget what the exact details are but apparently he's had several reviews like that one before but all conducted in secret.  Every patient has the right to have their reviews conducted in public without the usual levels of secrecy in certain circumstances.  Brady met those conditions and hence the public case.  He is unlikely to meet those conditions again (apparently).

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Meanwhile the murder rate continues to fall.

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Meanwhile the murder rate continues to fall.

That's not necessarily relevant though. I don't think anyone involved in a murder should automatically face the death penalty. The cases I think might apply are very rare, perhaps a couple a decade, but in theses cases - the baby killer or Cregan etc- then get shot of them.

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Out of interest, how was that figure calculated and has it been verified by any kind of official source?

Via one of the papers in the week when he was in court. Breakdown was there and of course it's over 45 years too.

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If it means we don't have a death penalty then any amount is money well spent.

So.......you are happy to spend 'any amount of money' to make you feel better and subsequently affect millions of peoples lives in other areas that would go without the money? ie health, libraries, schools etc.

Why is it more important to prevent one innocent person dying via a miscarriage of justice than 30 killed by released murderers?

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So.......you are happy to spend 'any amount of money' to make you feel better and subsequently affect millions of peoples lives in other areas that would go without the money? ie health, libraries, schools etc.

Why is it more important to prevent one innocent person dying via a miscarriage of justice than 30 killed by released murderers?

Any death by accident or design is a tragedy, by keeping murderers locked up and not releasing them we protect society from wrongdoers and avoid the danger of executing an innocent person.

I want to make certain no one can be released to kill again, and make sure we don't kill an innocent person by mistake, why don't you and Franksy and all the others clamouring for executions care about the innocents that will undoubtedly be put to death by the state?

"The State" being all of us.

 

Guildford Four

Birmingham Six

Colin Stagg

Barry George

How many innocent people do you want to kill? What makes you any different from a conspirator to murder?

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I don't want to kill any innocent people, but if we are concerned about it, why not go with the option that causes least innocent deaths?

I see you know them but none of the people killed by released murderers. *Those* innocent people aren't a 'cause celebre' are they.

By releasing these repeat murderers, 'the state' has effectively given them a green light to kill innocent people. Not in my name I say.

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why not go with the option that causes least innocent deaths?

Which would be....

Locking murderers up and not releasing them.

 

If we don't release murderers then there won't be anyone killed by released murderers, will there?

 

Simple really, isn't it.

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Which would be....

Locking murderers up and not releasing them.

If we don't release murderers then there won't be anyone killed by released murderers, will there?

Simple really, isn't it.

Er....which isn't happening and never will.

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Nor is execution, which one is least likely to cause innocent deaths? permanent incarceration or execution?

Why not put the same amount of effort into arguing for non release of convicted killers as you do to arguing for execution? 

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