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Pottsy

Yorkshire v Lancashire really 'failed' didn't it?

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Cash would certainly help, but heritage, prestige, incentive and a smarter structure would be more powerful drivers.

 

I'm not sure where any prize would go? But I would love to buy a Lancashire shirt - they could raise funds accordingly

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Did the doomed Harlequins RL folly teach us nothing?

Yes.

No investment and a woeful team leads to disaster.

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If we can't just play international matches against other nations due to competitiveness issues then a 4 way comp with Cumbria playing the south MUST be included. I went to a Roses match at Headingley and it was dismal despite loads of hype in the run up. It didn't matter enough to most fans and the players seemed to be less intense. Play France every year on Bastille Day, play Wales every year, play visiting Southern Hemisphere sides. All of these will be international occasions. The roses and exiles experiments were always flawed concepts that scream 'weak international structure and only played in the industrial north'. Do the right thing and stick to it, the right thing is proper internationals against countries that may gain something from the opportunity to host one of the big three or from being able to offer the carrot of a match in England.

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If we can't just play international matches against other nations due to competitiveness issues then a 4 way comp with Cumbria playing the south MUST be included. I went to a Roses match at Headingley and it was dismal despite loads of hype in the run up. It didn't matter enough to most fans and the players seemed to be less intense. Play France every year on Bastille Day, play Wales every year, play visiting Southern Hemisphere sides. All of these will be international occasions. The roses and exiles experiments were always flawed concepts that scream 'weak international structure and only played in the industrial north'. Do the right thing and stick to it, the right thing is proper internationals against countries that may gain something from the opportunity to host one of the big three or from being able to offer the carrot of a match in England.

I can't tell if that's in favour of bringing back the Roses or not?!

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If we can't just play international matches against other nations due to competitiveness issues then a 4 way comp with Cumbria playing the south MUST be included. I went to a Roses match at Headingley and it was dismal despite loads of hype in the run up. It didn't matter enough to most fans and the players seemed to be less intense. Play France every year on Bastille Day, play Wales every year, play visiting Southern Hemisphere sides. All of these will be international occasions. The roses and exiles experiments were always flawed concepts that scream 'weak international structure and only played in the industrial north'. Do the right thing and stick to it, the right thing is proper internationals against countries that may gain something from the opportunity to host one of the big three or from being able to offer the carrot of a match in England.

 

There is room for the 'Exiles' match but it should be played on ANZAC day in London. Tthe French in France on Bastille Day would be a great idea and I am a great advocate of playing the other home nations as well. Not a big fan of the 'County' option at professional level. 

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I can't tell if that's in favour of bringing back the Roses or not?!

If we cannot play internationals for whatever reason it is better than exiles but include Cumbria v south

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IMO part of the problem was that Yorks v Lancs was billed as a competitive trial, but when Yorks stuffed Lancs none of them got picked for GB at the end of the year anyway. I got the impression that David Waite had a say in the selection of both teams as well, which is completely contrary to what happens in Australia.

I also hated that they called it 'County of Origin' or something naff like that. 'War of the Roses' was much better as a name and could have helped in the publicity. Using the word 'origin' over here just reinforces how the games are a pale imitation of Australia's 'origin'.

I agree that the concept was set up to fail, albeit probably by bad planning rather than design.

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There is room for the 'Exiles' match but it should be played on ANZAC day in London

This is the only way it should continue IMHO with perhaps a rep game involving the south as a precursor

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IMO part of the problem was that Yorks v Lancs was billed as a competitive trial, but when Yorks stuffed Lancs none of them got picked for GB at the end of the year anyway. I got the impression that David Waite had a say in the selection of both teams as well, which is completely contrary to what happens in Australia.

I also hated that they called it 'County of Origin' or something naff like that. 'War of the Roses' was much better as a name and could have helped in the publicity. Using the word 'origin' over here just reinforces how the games are a pale imitation of Australia's 'origin'.

I agree that the concept was set up to fail, albeit probably by bad planning rather than design.

100% spot on.

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England V Exiles is a wonderful concept

The problem at the moment though is the level of overseas player from the antipodes is in decline for a variety of reasons so such a team isn't as attractive to fans or as much a test to England

Someone earlier however said that they miss a trick by not allowing the players of other home nations in

Imagine last night if the exiles had played Brough and Dobson at halfback together, Kopcak in the front row, Elliot Kear on one wing as well as throwing in the best of all the other non English players in Super League?

Makes it commercially more appealing and a much sterner test - while also providing a great platform for the home nations best players to strengthen their own games by playing with and against other great players

The more I think about it the more it answered so many problems about how to advance the game

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This is the only way it should continue IMHO with perhaps a rep game involving the south as a precursor

This will not do anything to advance the crowd. They struggled to fill the Stoop with Aus/NZ fans for a full blown 4 Nations game

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Cash would certainly help, but heritage, prestige, incentive and a smarter structure would be more powerful drivers.

Heritage and prestige don't put food on the table. In 30 years it may do but that's no good for the blokes today

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Cumbria v the south would be interesting, although would depend how lenient you are on selection for the South. Sam Tomkins could technically turn out for them. Although Cumbrias starting 13 would be very strong. Especially the pack.

Brett Carter

Ade Gardner

Matt Gardner

Liam Harrison

Elliot Miller

Peter Lupton

Callum Philips

Lee Mossop

Shaun Lunt

Brad Singleton

Brett Philips

Kyle Amor

Oliver Wilkes

Not a bad starting 13, admit there is some Championship players in there, but Callum and Brett Philips, Liam Harrison and Elliot Miller are all more than capable of playing SL level. Harrison likely won't make the step up due to his age and his job but I'd be surprised if at least two of the Workington lads didn't make the step. Not bad for a county with no SL club for miles.

I'd definitely attend a double header between Lancashire and Yorkshire and Cumbria v the south, we can't be missing many players out with that concept?

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England V Exiles is a wonderful concept

The problem at the moment though is the level of overseas player from the antipodes is in decline for a variety of reasons so such a team isn't as attractive to fans or as much a test to England

Someone earlier however said that they miss a trick by not allowing the players of other home nations in

Imagine last night if the exiles had played Brough and Dobson at halfback together, Kopcak in the front row, Elliot Kear on one wing as well as throwing in the best of all the other non English players in Super League?

Makes it commercially more appealing and a much sterner test - while also providing a great platform for the home nations best players to strengthen their own games by playing with and against other great players

The more I think about it the more it answered so many problems about how to advance the game

 

Sadly, the Exiles concept has arrived a decade too late. Now watching England play a team that had Steve Renouf, Allan Langer, Jason Smith, Trent Barrett, Richie Barnett, Richard Swain, Stacy Jones, Jim Dymock, Marcus Bai, Lesley Vainakolo, Joe Vagana, Robbie and Henry Paul, Brett Dallas, Jamie Lyon - now that would have been an exciting period (2000-2006).

 

The current concept is doomed sadly. Partly because of the alarming decline of the Exiles. Last night's team had an average age of 31. Leuluai, Menzies, Hodgson, Puletua, Waterhouse, Richards, Monaghan (all 31-39) are going to be replaced by who in 1-2 years? And this team was getting flogged. It also contained Chris Bailey and Heath L'Estrange FFS.

 

Yorkshire v Lancashire is not the answer. What might be the answer is England v England Knights played on a free weekend with a big pot of cash to the winners and the Elite training squad being named at the end of the following week. This is then followed by a test in France on Bastille Day week-end.

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Sadly, the Exiles concept has arrived a decade too late. Now watching England play a team that had Steve Renouf, Allan Langer, Jason Smith, Trent Barrett, Richie Barnett, Richard Swain, Stacy Jones, Jim Dymock, Marcus Bai, Lesley Vainakolo, Joe Vagana, Robbie and Henry Paul, Brett Dallas, Jamie Lyon - now that would have been an exciting period (2000-2006).

 

The current concept is doomed sadly. Partly because of the alarming decline of the Exiles. Last night's team had an average age of 31. Leuluai, Menzies, Hodgson, Puletua, Waterhouse, Richards, Monaghan (all 31-39) are going to be replaced by who in 1-2 years? And this team was getting flogged. It also contained Chris Bailey and Heath L'Estrange FFS.

 

Yorkshire v Lancashire is not the answer. What might be the answer is England v England Knights played on a free weekend with a big pot of cash to the winners and the Elite training squad being named at the end of the following week. This is then followed by a test in France on Bastille Day week-end.

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England A v England B provides no appeal at all. That's why no other sport used it. Sport is about tribalism, rivalry and, yes, parochialism!

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Right, here's my three steps to heaven:

Representative Window One:

War of the Roses: Lancs v Yorks (Leeds)

Cumbria v Exiles (Whitehaven/Workington)

Rep Window Two:

England v Exiles

France v Wales

Rep Window Three (to coincide with an Origin week in Oz):

NZ v England

In this scenario, every game would represent another step up the ladder for the England players and there'd be meaningful games for the public to get their teeth into.

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Right, here's my three steps to heaven:

Representative Window One:

War of the Roses: Lancs v Yorks (Leeds)

Cumbria v Exiles (Whitehaven/Workington)

Rep Window Two:

England v Exiles

France v Wales

Rep Window Three (to coincide with an Origin week in Oz):

NZ v England

In this scenario, every game would represent another step up the ladder for the England players and there'd be meaningful games for the public to get their teeth into.

What happened to Cumbia vs The South?

Week 1:

Yorkshire vs Lancashire

Cumbria vs The South

North East vs The Midlands

France vs Wales

Scotland vs Ireland

Week 2:

New Zealand vs England

Papua New Guinea vs England Knights

Wales vs France

Ireland vs Scotland

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........and what about playing internationals?

Who can England play that's a test?

That's what it all comes down.

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What it boils down to for me is that I care about whether Yorkshire beat Lancashire and will pay to go and watch.

 

I don't care whether England beat "The Exiles" and would not pay to watch.

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Hmmm....... SOO was a massive concept when it first started.....NOT.....BUT they stuck with it (OK tweaked it here and there) to make it what it is today.

We bin ideas after two or three years and never give them time to grow.

 

 

After Queensland lost the first two interstate matches in 1980 (35–3 and 17–7, the second game in front of only 1,638 Sydneysiders.

 

Australia's 1978 captain Bob Fulton called the match "the non-event of the century"

 

By the 1970s the prestige of interstate matches had been seriously downgraded

 

The New South Wales media gave both the event, and Queensland's chance of winning it, little credence, calling the game a "three day wonder".

 

Matches were played mid-week, so as not to interfere with the Sydney club competition, and the small crowds in New South Wales were hosted at suburban grounds.

 

 Interstate football reached its nadir in 1977 when the New South Wales Rugby Football League (NSWRFL) declined to host the Queensland team, and both interstate games were played in Queensland.

 

Three Sydney clubs remained opposed to the plan: St. George DragonsSouth Sydney Rabbitohs and Eastern Suburbs Roosters. As these clubs were refusing to release players.

 

However, in 1985, under the leadership of captain Steve Mortimer, New South Wales won the deciding match in front of 29,068 spectators at the Sydney Cricket Ground, claiming the series for the first time.

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What happened to Cumbia vs The South?

Week 1:

Yorkshire vs Lancashire

Cumbria vs The South

North East vs The Midlands

France vs Wales

Scotland vs Ireland

Week 2:

New Zealand vs England

Papua New Guinea vs England Knights

Wales vs France

Ireland vs Scotland

Cumbria vs Exiles is a far more appealing fixture; it gives the people of Cumbria the chance to see Super League stars and also battle hardens to Exiles ahead of the England game.

Realistically, a team representing the South would consist solely of Broncos players, lads from the Championships who didn't make it at the Broncos and one or two players who progressed beyond Broncos. It'd be more of a high school reunion than a rep game.

Midlands v Northeast is great but it'd realistically be a community level game.

NZ v Eng is viable mid season because half out stars are based in the NRL. England Knights would be better staying at home and playing France; flying half of Super League Down Under when there are suitable alternatives closer to home hardly smacks of financial prudence.

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