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Pottsy

Yorkshire v Lancashire really 'failed' didn't it?

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I think the Exiles concept would have worked better a few years ago when the standard of international players in SL was much higher, or at least had the perception of being higher.  10 years ago an Exiles team could have fielded the likes of Henry Paul, Robbie Paul, Michael Withers, Leslie Vanikolo, Brett Dallas, Adrian Lam, Matt Adamson, Craig Smith, etc.,.  A bit more appealing than seeing Lance Hohaia, Heath L'Estrange, and Zeb Taia.

How could an Exiles team 10 years ago feature Henry Paul when he had been at Gloucester RU for a couple of years before that?

As much as people eulogise things, the imports 10 years ago were not lauded as supermen nor were they that well known (RL circles aside). They were either seen as failures like Withers or Vainikolo or has beens/end of careers like Matthew Johns.

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The Exiles allows the England team to play as a team and not the players playing against each other as they do each week.

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How could an Exiles team 10 years ago feature Henry Paul when he had been at Gloucester RU for a couple of years before that?

As much as people eulogise things, the imports 10 years ago were not lauded as supermen nor were they that well known (RL circles aside). They were either seen as failures like Withers or Vainikolo or has beens/end of careers like Matthew Johns.

This is subtly a point I'm trying to make with my "Best Exiles Team That Never Was" thread. Whilst there are no doubt some really talented players in the team, some of them weren't really all that great. It was a nightmare trying to find enough forwards, and there weren't many foreign full backs either.

Usually when people compile this dream lists, they include players that never played against or with each other in SL.

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Can we get on to the marketing now?

It appears (from this board) that every event the RFL put on is marketed really badly and if only this was addressed then it'll be fine.

What did the RFL do right/wrong with Yorks v Lancs, what are they doing right/wrong with Exiles, and what should they do for whatever is decided to be held in mid-season next year?

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What they did wrong with County games

Played them midweek without suspending the league programme

What they have done wrong with the Exiles

Keep Steve MacNamara as coach

;)

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With the exiles concept I reckon we shud allow 1 union star to play for them will certainly add more intrest to the game,I also think we're the fans hav a say in the exiles squad like the first year shud b brought back. Nxt year I'd like too see it b played at headingly or the kc

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The main difference between England v Exiles or Yorks/Lancs and England v France/Wales/Ireland is that many who attend want to see England play well but they are also delighted when France or Wales play well. That is because they want to see international development. I was at Headingley when France beat England in 1990. There were cat calls at the GB players for letting the game slip but I also remember a lot of applause and genuine affection for the French effort.  

 

France get whooped a lot but they also occasionally pull out performances like 1990 or the 14-14 draw in NZ in the 1990s and the 30-odd points they put past the Aussies in 2004-ish. This may well happen again in the not too distant future. If it does I will be thrilled for the international game.

 

I was born in Yorkshire and all I ever wanted to do as a kid was play RL or get into the Yorkshire cricket team (as it was Yorkshire-born only then). Things have changed. I look out for Yorkshire's results but drift in and out of having any interest in county cricket as Durham, Lancashire, Derbyshire etc. mean a lot less to me than they did 25-30 years ago.

 

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What they did wrong with County games

Played them midweek without suspending the league programme

 

 

I suppose that's why State of Origin is such a failure.

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I suppose that's why State of Origin is such a failure.

Not a good comparison really when the SoO games are played in two highly populated cities with huge RL interest as opposed to average sized towns or big cities with reduced RL interest. 

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Not a good comparison really when the SoO games are played in two highly populated cities with huge RL interest as opposed to average sized towns or big cities with reduced RL interest. 

 

The reason it was suggested the Roses "failed" was that they were played midweek without suspending the league programme, which is exactly how SOO is run.

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I'd like to think within a few years there could be scope for a Roses/Exiles double header. There were already a handful of quality players sat on the sideline this Friday, at the current rate of progression a Roses contest equivalent to probables v possibles including the Knights would appeal to me on a free weekend.

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On the initial topic, I do want a competitive mid-season "exhibition" match/series/competitive with representative teams.  I do worry about the Lanc v Yorks concept though.  Firstly, I think it means a lot more to the yorkies than to Lancashire, I think that may well be for the points Max has alluded to (I am from Warrington and don't feel like a Lancastrian).  I think Pottsy may have hit the nail on the head in the OP, it may well be a case of ot having us pigeon-holed as a Northern Industrial working class game (which therefore isn't as valuable to sponsors).

 

Having said that, "Lancashire" (including Cheshire, Greater Manchester and Merseyside) and Yorkshire could work as a concept, it isn't full of skint people working down the pit and there is a decent number of affluent people (to give it marketing value).  The problem is that nothing is given the chance it needs to bed in as we get knee jerk reactions and we can't afford as a sport to back loss making ideas for too long to let them bed in.

 

If we want a region based competition, I'd go for something like this.

 

Lancs

Yorks

North (Cumbria & North East)

South (Midlands and South of England)

Celts (Irish, Scots & Welsh)

France

 

To start with, best of 3 Lancs v Yorks and round robin between other four, we'd need to shorten the SL season to fit it in though.

 

EDIT: Maybe also throw in Aus/NZ players in with South to start with, or have a rest of England team with combined North/South and Exiles as a separate team.

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You are immune to sarcasm aren't you

 

Sorry missed the wink.

 

Head currently hung in shame.

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4 week break from super league for a rep and international games, 3 back to back War of roses games with the England v exiles as the 4th week game. Obviously with the 4 week break gives great oppitunity for Wales, France ect to hav international games then back for the 2nd half of super league sounds good to me

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4 week break from super league for a rep and international games, 3 back to back War of roses games with the England v exiles as the 4th week game. Obviously with the 4 week break gives great oppitunity for Wales, France ect to hav international games then back for the 2nd half of super league sounds good to me

Hmm, ok in theory but I don't know if it's beneficial for the rest of the league to sit and twiddle their thumbs for four weeks. At least during the Sick Nations the clubs carry on, albeit weakened.

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Understand what your saying but could be great oppitunity to allow players recover from injuries ect a mini pre season if you like for non playing players also could be good for out of form clubs. but the majority of players could be playing anyway with the war of the roses you could even have Cumbria v the south ect summut along those lines but it would give us a small break away from super league which I woudnt say is a bad thing

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To answer the OP yes it did.It had more withdrawls than a Greek bank.The players weren't interested,neither were the coaches.

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On the initial topic, I do want a competitive mid-season "exhibition" match/series/competitive with representative teams.  I do worry about the Lanc v Yorks concept though.  Firstly, I think it means a lot more to the yorkies than to Lancashire, I think that may well be for the points Max has alluded to (I am from Warrington and don't feel like a Lancastrian).  I think Pottsy may have hit the nail on the head in the OP, it may well be a case of ot having us pigeon-holed as a Northern Industrial working class game (which therefore isn't as valuable to sponsors).

 

Having said that, "Lancashire" (including Cheshire, Greater Manchester and Merseyside) and Yorkshire could work as a concept, it isn't full of skint people working down the pit and there is a decent number of affluent people (to give it marketing value).  The problem is that nothing is given the chance it needs to bed in as we get knee jerk reactions and we can't afford as a sport to back loss making ideas for too long to let them bed in.

 

If we want a region based competition, I'd go for something like this.

 

Lancs

Yorks

North (Cumbria & North East)

South (Midlands and South of England)

Celts (Irish, Scots & Welsh)

France

 

To start with, best of 3 Lancs v Yorks and round robin between other four, we'd need to shorten the SL season to fit it in though.

 

EDIT: Maybe also throw in Aus/NZ players in with South to start with, or have a rest of England team with combined North/South and Exiles as a separate team.

 

Naturally over here, we want to try and replicate the most successful RL concept in the world in SOO. It's not easy to do as has been shown many times as it requires a genuine rivalry that a concept can be built from. 

 

I've said before that the only natural rivalry in British RL is between clubs from the East of the Pennines and those from the West. However, in my opinion it is unworkable as a concept to try and rival SOO in even a small way. Yorkshire vs Lancashire is the neatest solution as it represents two genuine regions that have a historical rivalry and that people can be proud of coming from, just like NSW and Queensland. However, as I have pointed out there are big problems none more so than the fact that we only have one semi-pro club still in Lancashire. There are many proud Yorkshiremen that are RL fans but you are stretching the Lancastrian side of the rivalry to a historic region that fewer and fewer people are going to have ties to. The biggest killer I think is that even when we had regional leagues and all the clubs were in those two counties a fierce rivalry didn't emerge from this. Let's not use rose-tinted glasses and forget about the fact that it was a passionless, low-intensity series just 10 years ago. 

 

I don't think the answer is Yorkshire vs Lancashire/Cheshire/Merseyside/Greater Manchester either. Whatever you call these sides it will be artificial and plagued with the same problems as we had last time. We want it to be something that fans and especially players get passionate about otherwise it is useless. It's not just about the 200k plus Aussies that will watch SOO, it's about the intensity that their players are exposed to. A glorified friendly with nothing riding on it isn't going to do that. Of course the same criticisms can be leveled against the Exiles but at least this gives English players a chance to familiarise themselves against tough defence. 

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Hmm, ok in theory but I don't know if it's beneficial for the rest of the league to sit and twiddle their thumbs for four weeks. At least during the Sick Nations the clubs carry on, albeit weakened.

 

This weekend's been bad enough, never mind 4 weeks of it!

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This weekend's been bad enough, never mind 4 weeks of it!

And you have a game! Imagine if you didn't.

 

Still, normal service will be resumed next week, another poor away performance by the Vikings... ;)

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And you have a game! Imagine if you didn't.

 

Still, normal service will be resumed next week, another poor away performance by the Vikings... ;)

 

It's nice having a Monday game but I can't say I have high hopes for a great performance in front of the cameras!

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It's nice having a Monday game but I can't say I have high hopes for a great performance in front of the cameras!

It'll be reet. Odsal is where you'll fall apart. :biggrin:

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The problem with the county matches was that it was supposed to be a test trial. But a week before every game the top players picked up "injuries". So it didn't matter how well any fringe player played they rarely got anywhere near the test side.

This completely devalued the concept, and turned it into a glorified friendly.

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