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Barwick's latest on the Broncos

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Life itself is cut and paste is the best line I have read on here for a while. It sounds profound. I must drop it casually into conversation with the Surrey cappuccino set.

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cappuccino is SOOOOO outlet mall! In Staines, they drink proper coffee. 

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what else? Certainly not Coffee matelot   :biggrin:

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I think that Parksider has said many times that Sky demand a London team when they enter into contracts with the game.

 

Never said that at all. How do I know what's in a private contract?

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Times are different, people in charge are different.

 

I just get the impression that the RFL currently see the Broncos in its current guise as being on a road to nowhere, but that they (the RFL) have neither the desire or the financial clout to take a greater stake in the club. Basically Broncos need to sort themselves out, and if it requires a drop to the Championship and the move to a more suitable (ie smaller) stadium then so be it. 

 

I would have thought Leeds Carnegie RU side are a good case study. Trying to push pro RU in an RL/ AFC city, they spent big time when they were last in the Premiership and basically got relegated and ran up some important debts. Granted their crowds were a bit higher than Broncos have been getting of late, and there are no doubt favorable terms for their use of Headingley.

 

Since relegation from the Premiership, Hetherington and Caddick have taken the opportunity to rework Carnegie top to bottom, they have binned the expensive contracts and are assembling a squad made up from the academy and the wider Yorkshire region. It has been painful, but they have a squad mainly of local players who are slowly gelling as a squad, and who were in the play offs for promotion this season just gone. Give it another season or two, and Leeds Carnegie could well be back in the Premiership with a majority home grown squad.

 

I am yet to hear anyone suggest that there is not a pathway to the RU top table (so Leicester, Saracens, Bath, Gloucester) for talented Yorkshire RU players just because there is not a Yorkshire club in the Premiership. There are stacks of northern born and bred RU players who have had to move to the South East/ West or East Midlands to play top flight RU, why should it be the case that no-one from the South East would want to move to Leeds or Wigan to play the sport they love? Where RU has it right and RL has it less so, is that top RU clubs are more active in scouting talent from the lower leagues than their SL counterparts, particularly when it comes to forwards: the RU Championship is seen as an excellent breeding ground for tough gnarly forwards.

 

As for the grass roots development in London, I am really not sure how much of that can be directly attributed to the London Broncos certainly in north/ east/ south east Greater London. Granted they might have some impact in the triangle between the M3/ A3 but am not aware that they do a massive amount there (I stand to be corrected on this).

 

Really enjoyable post that. We shall see how things pan out......

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Never said that at all. How do I know what's in a private contract?

You've said it at least a hundred times and it never bothered you that couldn't know it to be true.

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Does Brian Barwick have a email address, I would like to send him a email on the issue of the broncos?

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Life itself is cut and paste is the best line I have read on here for a while. It sounds profound. I must drop it casually into conversation with the Surrey cappuccino set.

It sure is. Everything I have ever done has already been done. Now I realise I don't think I can take it any more...but someone's already beat me to that.

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I was told an interesting snippet at the weekend, which could be interpreted as London prperaing for life at al lower level. They are looking to ground share/purchase the Skolars stadium and develop it over time.

 

Idle specualtion on my part, but if you join enough dots...

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I was told an interesting snippet at the weekend, which could be interpreted as London prperaing for life at al lower level. They are looking to ground share/purchase the Skolars stadium and develop it over time.

 

Idle specualtion on my part, but if you join enough dots...

We  already have a thread on that. FWIW it seems that the Skolars are in favour but Broncos aren't.

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looking like discussions of a Skolars Broncos merger are not all that fanciful now after all.

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looking like discussions of a Skolars Broncos merger are not all that fanciful now after all.

?

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As for the grass roots development in London, I am really not sure how much of that can be directly attributed to the London Broncos certainly in north/ east/ south east Greater London. Granted they might have some impact in the triangle between the M3/ A3 but am not aware that they do a massive amount there (I stand to be corrected on this).

 

From what I am aware, the grassroots growth has very little to do with the Broncos and almost everything to do with the RFL predominantly funding development officers and community coaches in various areas (including those employed by Broncos). These officers, the community clubs they support and the pathway programmes run by the RFL that the youth elite are involved in has everything to do with the growth over the past 7 years.

 

I have been told the junior game is contracting already with the reduction in RFL development and coaching staff after just 6 months. The sport it seems is so dependent on full time staff to support and promote it for any growth. That is not necessarily a bad thing. All sports have employees to promote their game.

 

I think that from this we can draw that Broncos in the lower division will not necessarily have a downward effect on grass roots RL at all. If the RFL continue to not fund development officers and coaching staff, then this will have a massive effect on grassroots RL in the capital.

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From what I am aware, the grassroots growth has very little to do with the Broncos and almost everything to do with the RFL predominantly funding development officers and community coaches in various areas (including those employed by Broncos). These officers, the community clubs they support and the pathway programmes run by the RFL that the youth elite are involved in has everything to do with the growth over the past 7 years.

 

I have been told the junior game is contracting already with the reduction in RFL development and coaching staff after just 6 months. The sport it seems is so dependent on full time staff to support and promote it for any growth. That is not necessarily a bad thing. All sports have employees to promote their game.

 

I think that from this we can draw that Broncos in the lower division will not necessarily have a downward effect on grass roots RL at all. If the RFL continue to not fund development officers and coaching staff, then this will have a massive effect on grassroots RL in the capital.

 

The loss of the development officers is a far greater threat to London RL than any downsizing/relegation of the Broncos.

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I think that from this we can draw that Broncos in the lower division will not necessarily have a downward effect on grass roots RL at all.

We can't draw such an extreme conclusion. Of course development officers get the kids playing and of course Superleague clubs provide a pathway for the best to become professionals. There's two factors at play but there are enough respected commentators to support the idea that Broncos demise will have an effect on player production. What price kids in London honing their skills in the grassroots RL game and using those skills to follow an RU career?

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We can't draw such an extreme conclusion. Of course development officers get the kids playing and of course Superleague clubs provide a pathway for the best to become professionals. There's two factors at play but there are enough respected commentators to support the idea that Broncos demise will have an effect on player production. What price kids in London honing their skills in the grassroots RL game and using those skills to follow an RU career?

 

I tend to disagree. The state of grassroots RL in London pre community coach deployment 7 years ago included four junior clubs and about a quarter of the existing number of adult grassroots clubs.

 

So the qualifications and understanding of these "respected commentators" to make such statements about Broncos link to growth at grassroots is unfortunately not backed by the evidence to hand

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I tend to disagree. The state of grassroots RL in London pre community coach deployment 7 years ago included four junior clubs and about a quarter of the existing number of adult grassroots clubs.

 

So the qualifications and understanding of these "respected commentators" to make such statements about Broncos link to growth at grassroots is unfortunately not backed by the evidence to hand

 

My point was about what follows grassroots. i.e. the consequent development of grassroots players into professsionals, but we can agree to disagree good sir, and await to see how things pan out should London leave Superleague.

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The Broncos need to stand and fall like any other SL club. They don't and shouldn't get special treatment. I don't event think that them getting relegated next year would be such a bad thing. They need to re-group and get themselves sorted, and maybe they could do that better without the burden of financing a SL squad.

 

Where the RFL should give special treatment is to the development of the game in the south, but currently times are hard. Opening up our game to athletes in the south is crucial to our hopes of being more competitive internationally.

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The Broncos need to stand and fall like any other SL club. They don't and shouldn't get special treatment..

I've heard this rationale purported by many English rugby league fans (probably actually more specifically northern English rugby league fans).  However, why shouldn't London get special treatment?  What do you think Australian rugby league fans would be saying at present had Melbourne not received 'special treatment'?  The spine of the very successful national side play for them.  Sure, that spine might have ended up playing for another team but equally it might not either.  Slater et al may have been missed. 

 

However, Australian rugby league fans are not parochial and resentful in the same way many English rugby league fans are and so they have a very successful expansion side which has spawned the spine of a successful national side whereas we have a basketcase of one in London.

 

I wonder which country has got it right?

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Lets pull up the drawbridge and retreat to the North of the Trent again. Lets go back to the good old days and only be a Northern sport and while we're about it lets return to being part time and revert back to playing in winter. I can't wait to see what the Sky contract will be worth then. Getting rid of the Broncos is the first step to that.

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The Broncos need to stand and fall like any other SL club. They don't and shouldn't get special treatment.

 

How do London get special treatment?

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I've heard this rationale purported by many English rugby league fans (probably actually more specifically northern English rugby league fans).  However, why shouldn't London get special treatment?  What do you think Australian rugby league fans would be saying at present had Melbourne not received 'special treatment'?  The spine of the very successful national side play for them.  Sure, that spine might have ended up playing for another team but equally it might not either.  Slater et al may have been missed. 

 

However, Australian rugby league fans are not parochial and resentful in the same way many English rugby league fans are and so they have a very successful expansion side which has spawned the spine of a successful national side whereas we have a basketcase of one in London.

 

I wonder which country has got it right?

 

I'm afraid there are some Australian Rugby League fans, including certain posters who have graced this board in recent years, who are firmly of the view that rugby league expansion should stop at New South Wales southern and eastern borders.It's why NRL expansion is an ongoing debate on their boards but that would be a separate thread. They are wrong, but just to be clear, there is a backwoodsmen element downunder as well..

 

Lets pull up the drawbridge and retreat to the North of the Trent again. Lets go back to the good old days and only be a Northern sport and while we're about it lets return to being part time and revert back to playing in winter. I can't wait to see what the Sky contract will be worth then. Getting rid of the Broncos is the first step to that.

 

The Irony of course being as a southerner, RL is not actually northern in that you do not have to go too far in what I would call "the north" to enter a Rugby League Free-Zone a bit like the New Zealand Test at Blackburn in 2002 or England v France at Doncaster at 2009 in which I was assured by those in attendance that Rugby League will never catch on in South Yorkshire...

 

Back on thread, all the Barwick statement proves is the old adage about consultants

 

A consultant borrows your watch to tell you the time

 

So for the two days consultancy per week he is paid for by the RFL Mr Barwick comes up with these blinding observations

 

London team is ###### and they get c***p crowds - cause and effect methinks... and Losing London's not a big deal but I would like to give it another 5-10 years before making a hard choice.

 

Profound is it not.

 

The RFL could get together a group of say 10 posters from here and RLfans who actually watch the club who would give them a far more profound understanding of the problems the club and the game faces down here and would be much cheaper...

 

Personally I am more interested in the outcome of the meeting of the Super League Chairmen that took place yesterday, where no doubt some forthright opinions were expressed and since there appears to be movement in the right direction by the London Broncos over the last couple of days I am hopeful and it's unusual to come ontjhis board in a hopeful mood... ;)

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Personally I am more interested in the outcome of the meeting of the Super League Chairmen that took place yesterday, where no doubt some forthright opinions were expressed and since there appears to be movement in the right direction by the London Broncos over the last couple of days I am hopeful and it's unusual to come ontjhis board in a hopeful mood... ;)

I didn't realise a meeting had taken place. What are the moves in the direction?

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The Broncos need to stand and fall like any other SL club. They don't and shouldn't get special treatment. I don't event think that them getting relegated next year would be such a bad thing. Where the RFL should give special treatment is to the development of the game in the south, but currently times are hard. Opening up our game to athletes in the south is crucial to our hopes of being more competitive internationally.

 

But the Broncos are part of the "development of the game in the south" the best players feed to the RFL backed London academy, and the Broncos give the young lads their chances at first team level playing the best, and the prospect of a career in RL.

 

Having watched Liam Sutcliffe, Thomas Minns, Brad Singleton and Jordan Baldwinson monday night, being pitched in against SL Widnes, the idea that these London lads won't have the same chances without an SL Broncos is pretty much shutting the door on the southern athletes you feel are crucial to the game's success?

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