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weloveyouwakefield2

Super League Restructure Discussion (Many Merged Threads)

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I currently takes 31 games to win the comp. If they have 1 less game in the Challenge Cup, it's the same number of fixtures

In SL 6 teams have 27 games, the rest have between 28 and 31.

 

Under the new proposals, every team will have 30 games, some 31, some 32.

 

But yes, changing the Cup could reduce the games for each team by one but it's a change for the worse IMO introducing SL teams later.

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It'll do

Preferred the split after 11 games, but see the logic in providing more home games against better opposition for the top 12 clubs.

Might also make it a bit easier on the 2nd 12, not so many games against the fully funded clubs.

I agree

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It just gets worse and worse every time the RFL dream up some new idea. Deary me.

 

IIRC SLE is still a separate body, controlled by the member clubs. If I were Chairman of one of the bigger clubs I'd be seriously considering canvassing support for moving away from the RFL again.

 Or they could just use the democratic process and manage the situation.

 

If the bulk of clubs are not happy with the current structure, then something needs to be done.

 

I'd prefer 12 teams, 5 team playoff and 1 up 1 down - but we had that previously and people didn;t think it was right.

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I'm warming to it.

 

It's become a full season with 12 teams, with a form of relegation, followed by something similar to play-off mini leagues.

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One thing I would do is have the Magic Weekend in the 2nd 'half' of the season after the split.

 

You could then have it as the launch of the 2nd stage with a set of fixtures like this:

 

 

Day 1

Salford v Widnes

Sheffield v London

Hull v Hull KR

Wigan v Warrington

 

Day 2

Featherstone v Castleford

Wakefield v Bradford

Catalan v Huddersfield

Saints v Leeds

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You could argue it becomes a full playoff system. 

I'm warming to it.

 

It's become a full season with 12 teams, with a form of relegation, followed by something similar to play-off mini leagues.

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I would say I am also warming, although it is still Luke, to this idea. I like how it is a proper season, then basically adding an additional play off league, followed by the knockout playoffs. With there been 7 games in the 3x8 playoff league, magic would then then have to be moved so each team had 3 home and 3 away fixtures in the 3x8. Would it be feasible to switch the magic and challenge cup final weekends to allow this to fit?

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One thing I would do is have the Magic Weekend in the 2nd 'half' of the season after the split.

 

You could then have it as the launch of the 2nd stage with a set of fixtures like this:

 

 

Day 1

Salford v Widnes

Sheffield v London

Hull v Hull KR

Wigan v Warrington

 

Day 2

Featherstone v Castleford

Wakefield v Bradford

Catalan v Huddersfield

Saints v Leeds

I agree here, and the suggestion of moving magic was posted just as I typed mine post up.

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Best thing I’ve read on this subject thus far is the extended editorial in the current Forty 20 mag. Doesn’t completely bag the idea for the sake of it, but implies it’s pretty witless in the long term. It’s a solution that aims to please everyone and will end up pleasing nobody – the middle league after the split in particular. Worth reading whichever side of the fence you fall in this debate.

 

The changes reported to day seem initially to be a quick fix to a solution that itself is a quick fix to the problems of the sport. If you are going to split the leagues that late, why bother doing them at all? The advantages are so minimal it seems like lip service to the critics of an already pretty flimsy premise.

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One thing I would do is have the Magic Weekend in the 2nd 'half' of the season after the split.

 

You could then have it as the launch of the 2nd stage with a set of fixtures like this:

 

 

Day 1

Salford v Widnes

Sheffield v London

Hull v Hull KR

Wigan v Warrington

 

Day 2

Featherstone v Castleford

Wakefield v Bradford

Catalan v Huddersfield

Saints v Leeds

Bring the Cup final forward too? Could slightly overload if it Cup, Magic and then GF all near the end of the season. (I already think the Cup final should be in July anyway)

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The changes reported to day seem initially to be a quick fix to a solution that itself is a quick fix to the problems of the sport. If you are going to split the leagues that late, why bother doing them at all? The advantages are so minimal it seems like lip service to the critics of an already pretty flimsy premise.

This is the bit why I'm not overly conviced by it. Good point well made I believe the young folk of today say.

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one day someone will come up with an earth shattering idea about the way forward for our game. leaving things as they are and stop moving the goalposts and making silly rule changes at a whim. what about the clubs who have actually made an effort to modernise their business and stadia? this to me is pandering to small clubs who can't be bothered to move with the times........

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It just gets worse and worse every time the RFL dream up some new idea. Deary me.IIRC SLE is still a separate body, controlled by the member clubs. If I were Chairman of one of the bigger clubs I'd be seriously considering canvassing support for moving away from the RFL again.

 

It's been suggested that the clubs should go for whatever is decided by a "democratic process". However for me the reality is feeder clubs get no votes, and the destiny of these changes will be in the hands of the chairmen who back the successful clubs.

 

"Tail wagging the dog" would be the democratic approach as Padge puts it, and so what has been proposed looks to me to be the eight leading SL clubs getting their way 100%. For some time it has been rumoured and half confirmed by Mr. Hudgell that the SL clubs want to get back to a 12 club league, and in this proposal they get that.

 

Not enough fixtures/revenue? The big eight then get extra fixtures against each other and can sell a longer season on the season tickets and dump the early rounds of the play offs which were poor for crowds.

 

Seriously, what's not to like if you are Leeds, Hull, Catalans, Fartown, Wigan, Saints, Wire and Salford???

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It's been suggested that the clubs should go for whatever is decided by a "democratic process". However for me the reality is feeder clubs get no votes, and the destiny of these changes will be in the hands of the chairmen who back the successful clubs.

 

"Tail wagging the dog" would be the democratic approach as Padge puts it, and so what has been proposed looks to me to be the eight leading SL clubs getting their way 100%. For some time it has been rumoured and half confirmed by Mr. Hudgell that the SL clubs want to get back to a 12 club league, and in this proposal they get that.

 

Not enough fixtures/revenue? The big eight then get extra fixtures against each other and can sell a longer season on the season tickets and dump the early rounds of the play offs which were poor for crowds.

 

Seriously, what's not to like if you are Leeds, Hull, Catalans, Fartown, Wigan, Saints, Wire and Salford???

salford????????

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One thing I would do is have the Magic Weekend in the 2nd 'half' of the season after the split.

You could then have it as the launch of the 2nd stage with a set of fixtures like this:

Day 1

Salford v Widnes

Sheffield v London

Hull v Hull KR

Wigan v Warrington

Day 2

Featherstone v Castleford

Wakefield v Bradford

Catalan v Huddersfield

Saints v Leeds

I think ultimately they would have to move MM to the '2nd phase' of the season, as you suggest, for this latest version to be workable.

I can see the proposed format being usable in tiers 1 & 3, where points from the opening phase of the season could be carried over. In tier 2 carrying over points would be a non starter so it would leave a 7 game season, to determine promotion or relegation, in which half the teams have 4 homes games whilst the rest only have 3. Moving MM would at least even up the number of home and away fixtures. It would also reduce the total number of rounds by one.

That said I cant help but be concerned that the focus appears, publically at least, to be on league structures. The fundamental problem is surely the gulf in funding/budgets that currently exsists. If that is not addressed directly then any fiddling with structure strikes me as a rather elaborate exercise in deckchair rearrangement.

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salford????????

 

Come on VW, Dr. Koukash has started his assault on the transfer system and is prepared to pay hard cash transfer fees to clubs who are skint, and may lack ambition, for their best players. He says himself he already has six players lined up and the deals for next seasons SL player roundabout are starting to come through, so why would he not assemble a strong squad for Mr. Noble.

 

Who beyond the eight I mention are in a position to resist the good Doctors advances and get themselves in a stronger position than Salford will be come next February??

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All these alternatives feel abit contrived to me, I think I'm in the 12 team home and away, 5 team play-off camp myself, which probably seems a little old fashioned compared to some of the suggestions!

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All these alternatives feel abit contrived to me, I think I'm in the 12 team home and away, 5 team play-off camp myself, which probably seems a little old fashioned compared to some of the suggestions!

It all about how the clubs can get more money from more fixtures though.

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Come on VW, Dr. Koukash has started his assault on the transfer system and is prepared to pay hard cash transfer fees to clubs who are skint, and may lack ambition, for their best players. He says himself he already has six players lined up and the deals for next seasons SL player roundabout are starting to come through, so why would he not assemble a strong squad for Mr. Noble.

 

Who beyond the eight I mention are in a position to resist the good Doctors advances and get themselves in a stronger position than Salford will be come next February??

widnes for one. we won the battle with salford for rhys hanbury's new contract. reports were that he was nailed on to go to barton bridge but hey look what happened a new 3 year deal with the vikings. also with the new additions to the board making it 3 multi millionaires backing the club and new investment coming into the club we are in a much stronger position than most of our rivals.

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I can see the proposed format being usable in tiers 1 & 3, where points from the opening phase of the season could be carried over. In tier 2 carrying over points would be a non starter so it would leave a 7 game season, to determine promotion or relegation, in which half the teams have 4 homes games whilst the rest only have 3.

Bearing in mind the vast difference in funding, carrying over the phase 1 points to phase 2 in the middle division might be a sensible course of action.

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That said I cant help but be concerned that the focus appears, publically at least, to be on league structures. The fundamental problem is surely the gulf in funding/budgets that currently exsists. If that is not addressed directly then any fiddling with structure strikes me as a rather elaborate exercise in deckchair rearrangement.

 

I agree with you.

 

If league restructures solved anything, we wouldn't need to keep having them.

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Bearing in mind the vast difference in funding, carrying over the phase 1 points to phase 2 in the middle division might be a sensible course of action.

That could be fun!! If you applied SL points (2pts for a win 1 for a draw) to the current champs table & factor in that champs have only 16 rounds to SL's 18, Fev currently 4th would be something like 10 points ahead of Bradford, who are currently 9th in SL.

Whilst its not a perfect comparison its also not impiossible that under a carry over system tier 2 would begin with the top four already mathematically guaranteed.

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I agree with you.

If league restructures solved anything, we wouldn't need to keep having them.

Isn't that like saying "if petrol solved anything, my car wouldn't keep needing it"?

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That's a good point, hadn't considered the actual timing, but yes the Wembley trip may benefit from being in June? 

Bring the Cup final forward too? Could slightly overload if it Cup, Magic and then GF all near the end of the season. (I already think the Cup final should be in July anyway)

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Isn't that like saying "if petrol solved anything, my car wouldn't keep needing it"?

 

No. You put petrol in your car, it achieves something immediate and productive.

 

Faffing around with league structures rarely ever achieves what it promised, because as intheshed suggests, it isn't tackling the main problem.

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