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YCKonstantine

Does anyone else want USA to do well in the World Cup?

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To comment on a few of the earlier posts:

 

- I'll be supporting the USA in their World Cup endeavors even with the archaic political ban on our Boston 13s players and other USARL guys.

- In my opinion the 2 competitions desperately need to get back together to either provide an elite league and a development league *or* a North Conference / South Conference structure (The North/South split being my preferred option).

- I believe lots of heritage players will be used from what I heard on the grapevine.

- It's great that NRL & Super League is now shown on TV here but unfortunately rugby union is growing very strong and a rapid rate so rugby league is forever going to be in the shadows (Some think union growing will help RL, others think it will hinder it). From a personal point of view, here in Boston we've found it increasingly hard to recruit this summer as more and more players are playing summer 7s as they all have aspirations of making the US Olympic side. 

Rugby league the world over it seems shoots itself in the foot, time and again.  Union are far better organised and motivated and so deserve their success, sadly.  They will no doubt be helped by their acceptance into the Olympic comp. 

 

It is a real shame that Boston is struggling to find recruits and that their players cannot be involved in the world cup.  That they are not allowed to be involved is just ridiculous.  Maybe only a growing threat from RU will force those concerned to stop being so childish and reunite.  Well, one can live in hope anyway!

 

Meanwhile, in answer to the OP's question: yes, I do hope the USA do well.  I aim to watch one of their matches and I will be supporting them.  I even have a few American bits and pieces (like flags and stuff) left over from my numerous trips stateside which I will take with me to lend authenticity!!

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With David Niu out of the picture, perhaps a reconciliation is more likely. Who knows? Yes, I want all the minor teams to do well, and for Australia to be the only team in the competition that gets nilled. ;)

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I hope the US side make a big impact, it would really give our game a spur. When I was in Hawaii, I ran a number of times in their marathon, incidentally the best of all runs, and on one occasion I spoke to a race steward who was wearing an Hawaii RL shirt, and he told me the game was popular among a number of youth teams. By the way, going by the size of the bloke I was talking to they could turn out some massive forwards.

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With David Niu out of the picture, perhaps a reconciliation is more likely. Who knows? Yes, I want all the minor teams to do well, and for Australia to be the only team in the competition that gets nilled. ;)

I'm embarrassed that Saints/St Helens Council have opted to support the Aussies when they play Fiji at Langtree Park.  I mean, most English fans with half a brain want the Aussies to be defeated at all stages.  How then can my club actively and openly support them?  It makes me want to weep!

 

So I'm supporting Fiji instead and am on the hunt for a Fiji top and I'm making a Fiji flag.  Damned if I'm going to be cheering for the convicts!

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With David Niu out of the picture, perhaps a reconciliation is more likely. Who knows? Yes, I want all the minor teams to do well, and for Australia to be the only team in the competition that gets nilled. ;)

 

I think David is still involved, he's just also working with AFL Global (Arena American Football).

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Football (soccer) is a minor sport in America and their national team is still relatively strong, and that's the biggest and most powerful sport in the world. 10% penetration in the USA is better than 100% penetration in even a reasonable sized country. Rugby union is irrelevant and I don't know WTF you are talking about with regards to that.

 

Rugby union is relevant in so far as rugby union will succeed where we've constantly failed. Rugby union has a real, viable future in America. Rugby league might do, but our future hinges on their success, on our ability to exploit the inroads they're making, where as their success is just about guaranteed with or without our existence. Therefore, our best hope of any real penetration would be to ride their coat tails of success. It seems rugby league people are too proud to do this, perhaps because it would mean conceding that rugby actually is growing and finding popularity in places we can't, I don't know, I suspect that's it.

 

Soccer is the biggest, richest sport in the world and it's taken decades to make inroads in a country built on migration. We aren't going to have 10% penetration in the USA! We aren't soccer, we aren't rugby. We don't even have 10% penetration in London, for christs sake! People need to stop looking and concerning themselves with America. It's a pipe dream at best. I'd sooner the game was doing something in Japan or Georgia, or Manchester, Birmingham, London, etc.

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I can't work out what the NFL get out of promoting RU.

 

A product for the NFL network in the NFL off-season. The NFL clearly don't see rugby as a threat and don't mind giving the game exposure.

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Rugby league the world over it seems shoots itself in the foot, time and again.  Union are far better organised and motivated and so deserve their success, sadly.  They will no doubt be helped by their acceptance into the Olympic comp. 

 

 

Since the inclusion in the olympics the USA Sevens team has had a number of NFL/College football players in the squad. The resources available to the Sevens squad are massive, they get access to a huge college system with athletes from all background open to approach. I've heard their coach say as an offhand example that there's however many thousand athletes upwards of 6'2, 220lb with a sub-11 100 metre on the database they've got.

 

It will be good for rugby league if they get a professional comp going, I think. We can use their popularity to attract people to rugby league, or at least we should be doing.

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Rugby union has a real, viable future in America.

What makes you say that? How long has RU been in America?

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You have to wish a team that has a player named Apple Pope all the luck in the world!!

 

Looking forward to the USA visiting Wrexham to play Wales.  They will get a fantastic welcome and I am sure we will make some good friends too.

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What makes you say that? How long has RU been in America?

 

About a million participants; thousands of teams throughout the country, many of which are at colleges and high schools; a growing Sevens scene on the back of Olympic inclusion, which has attracted numerous top-draw athletes and some former NFL players, including the fastest rugby player the world has ever seen; A future professional competition that will attract even more great American athletes and fans; A great partnership with the NBC; money; influence; that sort of thing.

 

The last time they held an IRB sevens tournament they got about 6 million viewers tuned in and an attendence of about 50,000. RU is going from strength to strength to strength in the United States. Sooner or later all of the good work that's been done is going to start snowballing.

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I would think that RL would appeal to Americans far more than RU does. The trick is getting enough of them to realise it exists as a separate entity. Some good news - as far as I'm concerned - earlier this month that the US Pro RU league sounds like pie in the sky. NRL put your new riches to good use - get in first and help start a pro league up!


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I met an American in Melbourne that was doing some travelling. He'd watched some RU and some AFL while he was over there but didn't get on with them. Took him to see Storm, and he's planning on visiting the DC Slayers when he gets back!

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Rugby union is relevant in so far as rugby union will succeed where we've constantly failed. Rugby union has a real, viable future in America. Rugby league might do, but our future hinges on their success, on our ability to exploit the inroads they're making, where as their success is just about guaranteed with or without our existence. Therefore, our best hope of any real penetration would be to ride their coat tails of success. It seems rugby league people are too proud to do this, perhaps because it would mean conceding that rugby actually is growing and finding popularity in places we can't, I don't know, I suspect that's it.

 

Soccer is the biggest, richest sport in the world and it's taken decades to make inroads in a country built on migration. We aren't going to have 10% penetration in the USA! We aren't soccer, we aren't rugby. We don't even have 10% penetration in London, for christs sake! People need to stop looking and concerning themselves with America. It's a pipe dream at best. I'd sooner the game was doing something in Japan or Georgia, or Manchester, Birmingham, London, etc.

 

It was a pipe dream in Serbia, the Ukraine, Russia, Lebanon, Chech republic, Poland, Italy,Ireland, Fiji, Samoa. Jamaica, Canada etc etc.

 

Don't be so dismissive of a large country whose preference in football involves a funny shaped ball, running and tackling. From little acorns great oaks grow etc etc. The USA qualified for the World Cup for Pete's sake. They have played internationals in the USA against Canada, Ireland, South Africa and Jamaica.

 

Give them a sporting chance, how many hundreds of years have we been trying to make an impact in Wales ? Nobody is suggesting the RL community pour money into the American game, just that the International Governing body step in to sort out the split in the USA domestic competiton for the greater good of our sport.

 

We are always compaining about a shortage of players. Do you have any idea the riches of talent lying idle in the USA after their college/high school careers are over. If the US league could grow and prosper just a little bit there would be an instant source of players. Hull have already formed a link to the Canadian game. Don't be so parochial and insular in your thinking.

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It was a pipe dream in Serbia, the Ukraine, Russia, Lebanon, Chech republic, Poland, Italy,Ireland, Fiji, Samoa. Jamaica, Canada etc etc.

 

Don't be so dismissive of a large country whose preference in football involves a funny shaped ball, running and tackling. From little acorns great oaks grow etc etc. The USA qualified for the World Cup for Pete's sake. They have played internationals in the USA against Canada, Ireland, South Africa and Jamaica.

 

Give them a sporting chance, how many hundreds of years have we been trying to make an impact in Wales ? Nobody is suggesting the RL community pour money into the American game, just that the International Governing body step in to sort out the split in the USA domestic competiton for the greater good of our sport.

 

We are always compaining about a shortage of players. Do you have any idea the riches of talent lying idle in the USA after their college/high school careers are over. If the US league could grow and prosper just a little bit there would be an instant source of players. Hull have already formed a link to the Canadian game. Don't be so parochial and insular in your thinking.

 

It still IS a pipe dream in most those countries you name-dropped. Ukraine, Lebanon, Poland? You'd have to ask 100 people in the street before you found someone who knew what rugby league was, and that 100th person would end up being some general knowledge genius.

 

I don't even understand the shortage of players remark. Who says that there is a shortage of players? There's an abundance of players, there's more amazing athletes than a game of our size could possibly need. The game already has an instant source of players, it's known as the Pacific Islands. Does America have athletes that can't be found in Samoa, Tonga, Fiji? Athletes that can't be found in Manchester, London or Paris, even?

 

I've got nothing against growth in America, it can only be good for the game, I just don't see it happening. And what isn't good for the game is this weird belief that 1,000 participants in America is more valuable than 10,000 people playing the game in Pakistan or 3,000 in Argentina.

 

I think Ireland and the Cook Islands beating the USA will be better for the games development. if that makes me insular then so be it.

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I would think that RL would appeal to Americans far more than RU does. The trick is getting enough of them to realise it exists as a separate entity. Some good news - as far as I'm concerned - earlier this month that the US Pro RU league sounds like pie in the sky. NRL put your new riches to good use - get in first and help start a pro league up!

 

 

Rugby union in America has a million participants and millions more fans, and still there is no pro rugby comp as of yet because it's simply not been viable. What makes you think that rugby league, with 1% of the participation and fans, is in a position to start a pro comp? Even Vince McMahon would laugh at the idea. The NRL are right to ignore the charlatans in the States who talk about starting a pro rugby league comp.

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It still IS a pipe dream in most those countries you name-dropped. Ukraine, Lebanon, Poland? You'd have to ask 100 people in the street before you found someone who knew what rugby league was, and that 100th person would end up being some general knowledge genius.

 

I don't even understand the shortage of players remark. Who says that there is a shortage of players? There's an abundance of players, there's more amazing athletes than a game of our size could possibly need. The game already has an instant source of players, it's known as the Pacific Islands. Does America have athletes that can't be found in Samoa, Tonga, Fiji? Athletes that can't be found in Manchester, London or Paris, even?

 

I've got nothing against growth in America, it can only be good for the game, I just don't see it happening. And what isn't good for the game is this weird belief that 1,000 participants in America is more valuable than 10,000 people playing the game in Pakistan or 3,000 in Argentina.

 

I think Ireland and the Cook Islands beating the USA will be better for the games development. if that makes me insular then so be it.

 

 

If we get 3,000 in Argentina or 15,000 in Pakistan, that would be great. If it were to happen, i fail to see why growth in the USA would be mutually exclusive. Surely the game would be best served with sucess in all those three countries.

 

I have nothing against the Cook islands, i bet it's a great place for a holiday, but i think the population is about 20,000, so how you come to the conclusion that sucess for them as against sucess for the USA is better for the game is beyond me.

 

As to the player shortage. there have been numerous threads on here about there not being enough players to sustain a bigger SL or to enable Touluse to compete. There have been countless cries of woe at the imminent loss of the Broncos from SL because, allegedly, of the loss of players from the London area.

 

There have been further threads about the difficulty amateur teams all over the country, even in the heartlands, are having in staffing their junior teams. This is being compounded by the loss of development officers nationwide.

 

Right now there seems to be a surfeit of young players which have been produced by the already depleted amateur and SL systems. Going forward, this spigot might be turned off and all the progress we have made will come to nothing.

 

The fact that the game exists in all these countries. you brush off as irelevant is what is important. The fact that they are playing in international  competitons from European and Pacific locales all the way to World Cup qualifiers and for some, into the World cup proper is what is important. Exposure and knowledge of the game to the general public in these countries will come over time aided and abetted by any success that they might have. The USA is no different. RU has proven that.

 

i would hazard a guess that there are areas of Britain where you could ask the man in the street about RL and they would be clueless.

 

As John Donne said "No man is an island" and neither is RL whether a top team or an emerging nation.

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Rugby union in America has a million participants and millions more fans, and still there is no pro rugby comp as of yet because it's simply not been viable. What makes you think that rugby league, with 1% of the participation and fans, is in a position to start a pro comp? Even Vince McMahon would laugh at the idea. The NRL are right to ignore the charlatans in the States who talk about starting a pro rugby league comp.

 

yes RU is much much bigger in the US than RL but I think you'll find your figures are grossly exaggerated.You've more than doubled the participants and 'millions' or rah rah fans in the US. Really?

I'd say that an 'entry level' pro RL league stands as much chance of taking off as the big time pro RU league that's been spoken of. A quote from an American organiser " it is crucial that the first elite professional rugby union XV game in the United States must be of the same quality that is expected on the pitch in Toulouse, Stade de France or Twickenham: history must be made". Methinks it's a lot of hot air m'lud.

History teaches us that rugger normally wins out in these things and already has a gigantic headstart but let's not stop believing. The sport is, in my opinion, far more suited for American tastes than the turgid fare the other code has to offer.

 

edit - and the number of adult RU players is c.60,000. Again, far more than RL but let's not make them out to be such an overwhelming colossus that RL cant get a piece of the cake as well.

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edit - and the number of adult RU players is c.60,000. Again, far more than RL but let's not make them out to be such an overwhelming colossus that RL cant get a piece of the cake as well.

 

I was going to mention his figures. It would mean the US had probably more participants than the rest of the World put together!

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I was going to mention his figures. It would mean the US had probably more participants than the rest of the World put together!

 

Yes but we underestimate them also. They are into the colleges, the high schools and have hundreds of club teams. The 7s scene is booming and at 15s they just attracted an attendance of 20,000.

 

I think they also have a scheme whereby they have introduced rugby into deprived ghetto areas and which has been a great success so, mock them as you want, they are moving onwards and growing exponentially. RL needs to solve it's differences and get on with expanding the scope of the game inthe US pronto.

 

League would kill for such success. we should definitelt trade on the word Rugby and jump on their coattails to push our game.

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Rugby to an American conjures up pictures of pi**ed up frat boys. We'd do better to drop the word rugby from the name of the game in the USA.

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Rugby to an American conjures up pictures of pi**ed up frat boys. We'd do better to drop the word rugby from the name of the game in the USA.

 

Not so much any more. The athleticism and fitness needed for the 7 competitons have been pushed into the mainstream consciousness by ESPN both in televising the games and doing cover pieces on the various players.

 

Not that RL ever had any pi**ed up players or teams eh.!!

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Yes but we underestimate them also. They are into the colleges, the high schools and have hundreds of club teams. The 7s scene is booming and at 15s they just attracted an attendance of 20,000.

 

I think they also have a scheme whereby they have introduced rugby into deprived ghetto areas and which has been a great success so, mock them as you want, they are moving onwards and growing exponentially. RL needs to solve it's differences and get on with expanding the scope of the game inthe US pronto.

 

League would kill for such success. we should definitelt trade on the word Rugby and jump on their coattails to push our game.

 

Where am I mocking or underestimating in my post?

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Not that RL ever had any pi**ed up players or teams eh.!!

The Yanks wouldn't know the difference. ;)

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