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l'angelo mysterioso

Brian Sewell The man is a god

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It means that you had a hard bloody life and were generally too f*cked to ##### about looking at paintings like the likes of Sewell did.

That's assuming you didn't starve to death or get put in the army as cannon fodder.

 

Well, the Pitmen Painters managed to look at paintings, and they painted them as well!

 

http://www.ashingtongroup.co.uk/home.html

 

I don't think they ponced about though.  ;)

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Sewell has never displayed anything but contempt for the working classes and the North. He has been quoted in the past as saying all great works of art ought to be housed in London where the people will appreciate them (impling us northern folk are too dense to appreciate them).

Brian Sewell visits Newcastle.

 

"Sewell thinks that the North East has had a raw deal on the arts front, with a lack of support from cultural organisations in the past.

Sewell claims that he's been misreported, and he's keen to set the record straight.

Although he admits that London has more sophisticated audiences, he is in favour of "moving things out of London".

He believes in spreading culture around the country, not concentrating it all in the South East

Perhaps he's just playing devil's advocate? Sewell admits that he enjoys a lively cultural sparring match because it's good to upset people if it makes them think."

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Well, the Pitmen Painters managed to look at paintings, and they painted them as well!

 

http://www.ashingtongroup.co.uk/home.html

 

I don't think they ponced about though.  ;)

I know there were exceptions but I am talking about the masses in general. Most people up until fairly recently had 2 choices; work or starve. Or go on the rob, which I suppose is three but anyway.... it was a very hard life and there was very little time left for culture or popping along to the opera. 

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Although he admits that London has more sophisticated audiences, he is in favour of "moving things out of London".

 

I'm a fully fledged southern softy and I think that's patronising .

The Welsh National Opera, Opera North and Edinburgh Festival spring immediately to mind.

 

You unsophisticated northern oiks  :tongue:

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I'm a fully fledged southern softy and I think that's patronising ######.

The Welsh National Opera, Opera North and Edinburgh Festival spring immediately to mind.

 

You unsophisticated northern oiks  :tongue:

 

Plus the likes of The Hull Truck Theatre Company, Northern Broadside Theatre Company etc.

 

Yes, we live in a cultural desert. :P

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I know there were exceptions but I am talking about the masses in general. Most people up until fairly recently had 2 choices; work or starve. Or go on the rob, which I suppose is three but anyway.... it was a very hard life and there was very little time left for culture or popping along to the opera. 

 

I don't know about that. Leisure has been around for a long time for large swathes of the population. Look at the growth of sports teams and clubs, cycling clubs, walking groups, choirs, music groups, brass bands, Mechanics Institutes etc in the latter part of the 19th century. Also, think the number of pubs, working men's clubs etc. Obviously a lot of these activities were undertaken mainly by men. The people who took part in these pursuits, just like those who went to rugby and soccer matches made a choice about how they wanted to spend their free time, just like the people who liked to spend it having a few jars. 

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Both had a significant effect on British society ... for me, one good and one bad.

 

Overall, the working class wouldn't have voted Thatcher in if Labour had been a credible alternative. Traditional working class areas remained Labour strongholds.

 

In my opinion: -

 - It's having middle class Labour leaders like Foot (and I think Miliband) who can't marshall the working class vote that has resulted in the Tories have a clear run at elections. 

 -  Kinnock was working class and cleaned up the party  but was not up to leading the country.

 - Smith was middle class but was not up to leading the country or the party.

 - Blair was middle class but could just as easily have been a Tory leader. Still, he got us in. Ego got the better of him. I voted for him the first time, not afterwards.

 - Brown meant well but was not a good communicator with either the middle class or the working class. He commanded respect but not much loyalty. I hope he will come back a wiser man without the siege mentality and with a more inclusive style of leadership.

On Smith, he was everything I wanted in a Labour leader.  He was genuinely respected on both sides of the Parliamentary divide, had some solid Labour principles building on the good work of Kinnock and would have most likely been a fantastic Prime Minister.  A sad loss to the party and probably the country.

 

On Brown, he has some fantastic loyalty from his voters in his constituency.  It's all earned because of the work he puts into his constituent's needs.  I remember an article written about him, must have been about 2007, showing that he held twice as many constituency surgeries as any other Cabinet minister and he kept that up as Prime Minister.  An MP showing loyalty to his constituency is a rarity these days, most just use it as a stepping stone to get what they want.  In Parliament though, Brown was a disaster as Prime Minister mainly because, as you say, he was an abysmal communicator who just didn't have the talent to be the figurehead as well as keeping the egos of the Parliamentary Party happy, if the majority of Labour MPs had supported him from when he took on the job as PM rather than spend most of their time briefing against him then who knows what would have happened in 2010.

 

On Blair, his 1997-2001 Parliament was almost picture perfect in terms of what a Labour supporter could want from a modern government, how much of that was driven by Brown, Prescott and the like is a different story though.  From 2001 onwards, it was his ego that ran the thing.

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I don't know about that. Leisure has been around for a long time for large swathes of the population. Look at the growth of sports teams and clubs, cycling clubs, walking groups, choirs, music groups, brass bands, Mechanics Institutes etc in the latter part of the 19th century. Also, think the number of pubs, working men's clubs etc. Obviously a lot of these activities were undertaken mainly by men. The people who took part in these pursuits, just like those who went to rugby and soccer matches made a choice about how they wanted to spend their free time, just like the people who liked to spend it having a few jars. 

It wasn't that long ago that the working week was still 5 1/2 days a week. Would you want to spend that long on a loom or stood at a lathe or whatever and then go out and spend what little time you had left listening to some windbag prattling on about art or something or go for a few jars or to the football/RL? It wasn't just a case of clocking off, most of the jobs were physically exhausting and a lot of downtime was actually spent just trying to recover.

 

I love art and stuff, I am dead cultural. But if my only freetime was about 1 evening a week I would probably spend it getting r-soled on cheap gin or something.

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I started work in 1962, 51 years ago...and still at it!  I was a student apprentice. i.e I was employed by a mainframe computer company who paid me £2 6s 3d a week ( rising to £11 a week after 6 years)  to go to college full time for six years. College hours were 9 am till 6 pm five days a week plus homework. In the vacations we were required to work at the company premises. We had to work a 40 hour week. My mates who unlike me had proper jobs generally worked 40 hours a week. One or two  I know did things like double day shifts at the mill so they could escape from Swinton. I did not know many, self -employed apart, who worked 5 1/2 days a week.

 

LS Lowry was just coming to prominence thanks to the efforts of Harold Riley, Violet Carson was playing the piano at Swinton and Pendlebury Library on  't top road, I was giving it hell in Swindon and Pendlebury Brass Band, appearing on stage in a local production of Lilac Time, watching the Lions whenever I could afford and striving fruitlessly to overcome an immense lack of talent playing low level amateur rugby mainly by under-age drinking.

 

Brian Sewell, eat your heart out!

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I started work in 1962, 51 years ago...and still at it!  I was a student apprentice. i.e I was employed by a mainframe computer company who paid me £2 6s 3d a week ( rising to £11 a week after 6 years)  to go to college full time for six years. College hours were 9 am till 6 pm five days a week plus homework. In the vacations we were required to work at the company premises. We had to work a 40 hour week. My mates who unlike me had proper jobs generally worked 40 hours a week. One or two  I know did things like double day shifts at the mill so they could escape from Swinton. I did not know many, self -employed apart, who worked 5 1/2 days a week.

 

LS Lowry was just coming to prominence thanks to the efforts of Harold Riley, Violet Carson was playing the piano at Swinton and Pendlebury Library on  't top road, I was giving it hell in Swindon and Pendlebury Brass Band, appearing on stage in a local production of Lilac Time, watching the Lions whenever I could afford and striving fruitlessly to overcome an immense lack of talent playing low level amateur rugby mainly by under-age drinking.

 

Brian Sewell, eat your heart out!

 

 

I was about to mention Lowry. A revered Artist from the north, with a working class background. A paradoxical situation Sewell could barely comprehend. 

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Lowry was true middle class. He use to line his worn out shoes with The Manchester Guardian, whilst we had to make do with last week's Football Pink. 

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...and yet another thread degenerates into rehashing the minutiae of the class system.

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...and yet another thread degenerates into rehashing the minutiae of the class system.

It's nowt but snobbery, even from those who solidly call themselves working class.  "I'm .... class and that makes me better than you".

 

There was a programme on telly a few years ago with John Prescott going round talking to youths about stuff, including class.  He was talking to one quite rough young lady who said she was middle class, she couldn't be working class as she'd never worked in her life.  That just highlighted the absurdity of the whole thing, including many of those in the so-called "upper class" who have also never worked in their lives.

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There was a programme on telly a few years ago with John Prescott going round talking to youths about stuff, including class.  He was talking to one quite rough, young lady who said she was middle class, she couldn't be working class as she'd never worked in her life.

I remember that - the look on Prescott's face was priceless. :D

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It wasn't that long ago that the working week was still 5 1/2 days a week. Would you want to spend that long on a loom or stood at a lathe or whatever and then go out and spend what little time you had left listening to some windbag prattling on about art or something or go for a few jars or to the football/RL? It wasn't just a case of clocking off, most of the jobs were physically exhausting and a lot of downtime was actually spent just trying to recover.

 

I love art and stuff, I am dead cultural. But if my only freetime was about 1 evening a week I would probably spend it getting r-soled on cheap gin or something.

 

The point is lots of working class people did cultural and other stuff. One of the motivations was, no doubt, to get away from the dreary world of  work; that's part of the appeal of cultural activities, as well as sport. Plenty of young men took part in sport despite doing physically taxing jobs also.

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all great works of art ought to be housed in London where the people will appreciate them (

I used to live near Dagenham in a housing estate called Beacontree. Down the Robin Hood on a Friday night the locals would discuss little else than fine wine, Proust and post impressionism

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Brian Sewell visits Newcastle.

 

"Sewell thinks that the North East has had a raw deal on the arts front, with a lack of support from cultural organisations in the past.

Sewell claims that he's been misreported, and he's keen to set the record straight.

Although he admits that London has more sophisticated audiences, he is in favour of "moving things out of London".

He believes in spreading culture around the country, not concentrating it all in the South East

Perhaps he's just playing devil's advocate? Sewell admits that he enjoys a lively cultural sparring match because it's good to upset people if it makes them think."

The thing is that it just doesn't "make them think" if you insult them.

 

Sewell is obviously a very clever man with a lot of interesting things to say but he'd be much more effective if he didn't insult people. 

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The point is lots of working class people did cultural and other stuff. One of the motivations was, no doubt, to get away from the dreary world of  work; that's part of the appeal of cultural activities, as well as sport. Plenty of young men took part in sport despite doing physically taxing jobs also.

Indeed, and mine owners used to give their workers brass instruments. Now I've never tried to play a trumpet but I can imagine that it is not easy and takes a lot of persistence. 

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They largely  supplied cornets, the odd flugelhorn, tenor and baritone horns, euphoniums, trombones and E flat and double B flat basses. But trumpets? Nah. 

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I expect Sewell will be at Odsal on Sunday and in the Top House after the game so I will take it up with him then.

He often gets ejected for starting anti ref chants tho

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Sewell is obviously a very clever man with a lot of interesting things to say but he'd be much more effective if he didn't insult people. 

He enjoys winding people up. Always has done.

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They largely  supplied cornets, the odd flugelhorn, tenor and baritone horns, euphoniums, trombones and E flat and double B flat basses. But trumpets? Nah. 

Nevermind, I'm sure if you put it on your list for Santa, you might get a surprise on Christmas Day. 

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Why, has Yvette Cooper finally  succumbed to my charms?

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Why, has Yvette Cooper finally  succumbed to my charms?

Genuinely thought you meant Yvette Fielding at first.

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Genuinely thought you meant Yvette Fielding at first.

 

nope. She lives too near my son..it would get around.  Although they are the same age( all three of them!), I suspect I could be of more use to Ms Cooper.

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