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walter sobchak

Arming the "rebels" in syria

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Attacking the Palestinians at every opportunity? 

Wow someone should report this. 

Suppose you have seen an online copy of Israel's plan 'operation: kill em all'? 

If that's their plan then they are doing a poor job of it. The Syrian war is said to have killed about 100,000 and has been going on for about 3 years.

 

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on for more than 65 years and hasn't got anywhere near that.

 

And yet you would think that it was the worst thing ever to happen but the fuss that some make. Put it in some context.

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I do not agree with the policy towards Bahrain but there is no need to dress up by talking about "client states". The Bahraini repression had nothing to do with the US. The US condones this situation but did not create it.

 

It suited the Bahraini (and Saudi) government to portray protesters as Shi'ite extremists in the pay of Iran, which they were not. But you do the same of the Syrian rebels - Al Nusra exist but most Syrian rebels are just the same as Bahraini rebels. All the things you listed as being true of Bahrain are also true of Syria.

The protest movement in Bahrain is peaceful, they are not armed just like the movements in Egypt and Tunisia where peaceful. Although the protests in Libya and Syria started off peacefully they quickly became armed by the US, UK, other NATO countries and gulf Arab states. that's when they lost me, as they would just be replacing one anti-US dictator for a pro-US dictator. Also the US may condone the repression in bahrain(I've seen little of this) they aren't exactly calling for the al Khalifa family to step down like they did with Gaddafi and Assad, and calling for democracy and free and fair elections are they?

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Attacking the Palestinians at every opportunity? 

Wow someone should report this. 

Suppose you have seen an online copy of Israel's plan 'operation: kill em all'?

What would you call Palestine being wiped off the map? What would you call the occupation and annexing of land in the west bank and east Jerusalem? What would you call the siege on gaza?

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Perhaps if the Palestinians (and Hezbollah) would stop providing "the opportunity" then it would be better all round.

That's right blame the victims, its Israel that wiped palestine off the map in 1948 and it's Israel that invaded Lebanon in 1978 and 1982 and occupied southern Lebanon until 2000.

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The protest movement in Bahrain is peaceful, they are not armed just like the movements in Egypt and Tunisia where peaceful. Although the protests in Libya and Syria started off peacefully they quickly became armed by the US, UK, other NATO countries and gulf Arab states. that's when they lost me, as they would just be replacing one anti-US dictator for a pro-US dictator. Also the US may condone the repression in bahrain(I've seen little of this) they aren't exactly calling for the al Khalifa family to step down like they did with Gaddafi and Assad, and calling for democracy and free and fair elections are they?

So you are okay with dictators so long as they are anti-Western?

 

The protests in Libya and Syria were peaceful until the dictators used force. "Quickly armed by NATO" - well it's been three years...

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That's right blame the victims, its Israel that wiped palestine off the map in 1948 and it's Israel that invaded Lebanon in 1978 and 1982 and occupied southern Lebanon until 2000.

Yes, I can see how the wars of '48, '67 and '78 were started by Israel....

 

You do tend to lose territory if you start wars and then lose them.

 

Generally the reason why Arab states have tended to be reluctant to get involved ever since.

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So you are okay with dictators so long as they are anti-Western?

 

The protests in Libya and Syria were peaceful until the dictators used force. "Quickly armed by NATO" - well it's been three years...

No I'm not ok with any dictator, be they pro or anti-US. but what I'm not ok with and what raises my eyebrows is when the US and UK pick and choose what civil war/protest movement to get involved in and intervene militarily and which ones not to.

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No I'm not ok with any dictator, be they pro or anti-US. but what I'm not ok with and what raises my eyebrows is when the US and UK pick and choose what civil war/protest movement to get involved in and intervene militarily and which ones not to.

Well duh. If they didn't they'd either never intervene or intervene all the time. Even the US doesn't have the resources to be able to intervene in every conflict. Therefore you want them to never intervene.

 

You don't give a reason why the protesters were okay until the US got involved (in so far as they are involved). What changed (aside from US involvement)? 

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First off they aren't paying cash, we the US and UK are giving them money and weapons gratis, secondly a large portion of these "rebels" are al Qaeda and al Qaeda affiliated groups, you know 9/11, the twin towers and all that and the throat slitters of Christians, Shias etc.

Aaaah, it's a cunning ruse, they're currently pretending to be massacred so we'll give them lots of guns, when we do the joke will be on us. Hopefully, when they ask for a couple of 737's and directions to Blackpool Tower we'll figure it out.

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Aaaah, it's a cunning ruse, they're currently pretending to be massacred so we'll give them lots of guns, when we do the joke will be on us. Hopefully, when they ask for a couple of 737's and directions to Blackpool Tower we'll figure it out.

Nobody's pretending to be massacred in syria, People are being massacred on both sides by both sides, nobody has clean hands in this civil war. They won't need to fly 737's into Blackpool tower to harm us, if they are succeful in toppling Assad like Gaddafi they will get their hands on all kinds of weaponry that can do considerable damage to us both at home and abroad, just like the attack on the US embassy in Benghazi. Not to mention Syria's stockpile of chemical weapons.

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Nobody's pretending to be massacred in syria, People are being massacred on both sides by both sides, nobody has clean hands in this civil war. They won't need to fly 737's into Blackpool tower to harm us, if they are succeful in toppling Assad like Gaddafi they will get their hands on all kinds of weaponry that can do considerable damage to us both at home and abroad, just like the attack on the US embassy in Benghazi. Not to mention Syria's stockpile of chemical weapons.

We're in the realms of "45 minutes from apocalypse" now, or whatever the last lot said would happen.

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Well duh. If they didn't they'd either never intervene or intervene all the time. Even the US doesn't have the resources to be able to intervene in every conflict. Therefore you want them to never intervene.

 

You don't give a reason why the protesters were okay until the US got involved (in so far as they are involved). What changed (aside from US involvement)?

The only problem is that the US has and is only intervening against anti-US dictators, what I've been trying to ram home to you for day's. In Iraq, Libya and now Syria but didn't lift a finger in Yemen, Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain. I'm guessing that you can't be that stupid not to see this and that you must be a neocon sympathizer and a supporter of US imperialism in the region.

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The only problem is that the US has and is only intervening against anti-US dictators, what I've been trying to ram home to you for day's. In Iraq, Libya and now Syria but didn't lift a finger in Yemen, Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain. I'm guessing that you can't be that stupid not to see this and that you must be a neocon sympathizer and a supporter of US imperialism in the region.

And the point that you don't see is that Bahrain was the only state where there was a pro-US dictator that was demonstrated against.

 

Why would they intervene in UAE, Oman, Saudi, Qatar etc where there are no significant "Arab Spring" protests?

 

Perhaps if you stopped trying to apply labels and actually thought about things logically the world might make more sense.

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The only problem is that the US has and is only intervening against anti-US dictators, what I've been trying to ram home to you for day's.

They're hardly going to be intervening with those pro-US dictators are they.

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They're hardly going to be intervening with those pro-US dictators are they.

The other being that it took them three years to intervene in Syria and Syria was a police state.

 

The demonstrations in Bahrain didn't last three years and Bahrain isn't a "failed state" like Libya, Iraq or Syria.

 

Bahrainis are rich. It's just not a very equal society.

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They're hardly going to be intervening with those pro-US dictators are they.

Thats exactly my point!

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Thats exactly my point!

Do you want them to or something, because that's never going to happen.

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Do you want them to or something, because that's never going to happen.

No, I'm just exposing the hypocrisy and double standards of US policy in the region and their apologists. I'd like to see the US keep it's big nose out of other countries business and politics.

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No, I'm just exposing the hypocrisy and double standards of US policy in the region and their apologists. I'd like to see the US keep it's big nose out of other countries business and politics.

If you think that the US should keep its nose out of other countries' business then why do you think Arab states should be involved in the Palestine-Israel conflict?

 

Hypocrisy much?

 

They complain about Israel killing Muslims when they are quite happy to kill Muslims themselves. They complain about Israel's treatment of Palestinians when they treat them like ###### themselves.

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No, I'm just exposing the hypocrisy and double standards of US policy in the region and their apologists. I'd like to see the US keep it's big nose out of other countries business and politics.

You're not exposing anything. It's no big secret, America likes it's friends and doesn't like it's enemies.

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You're not exposing anything. It's no big secret, America likes it's friends and doesn't like it's enemies.

It's " friends" are pro-US Arab dictators and it's "enimies" are anti-US arab dictators. As the saying goes they maybe S.O.B.'s but they're our S.O.B.'s.

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If you think that the US should keep its nose out of other countries' business then why do you think Arab states should be involved in the Palestine-Israel conflict?

 

Hypocrisy much?

 

They complain about Israel killing Muslims when they are quite happy to kill Muslims themselves. They complain about Israel's treatment of Palestinians when they treat them like ###### themselves.

Because its their neighbourhood and Palestinians are their brothers and sisters.

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Because its their neighbourhood and Palestinians are their brothers and sisters.

So no complaints when the US intervenes in its "neighbourhood" to help its brother and sisters?

 

I strongly suspect otherwise.

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So Walter Sobchak what you are saying is when the US acts they are wrong. When they don't act they are wrong.

When they help a rebel movement they are wrong. When they don't help a rebel movement they are wrong.

When they help a friendly dictator they are wrong. When they don't help a friendly dictator they are wrong.

When they help their friends they are wrong. When they don't help their friends they are wrong.

 

Reads like that to me reading your points on here. 

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So Walter Sobchak what you are saying is when the US acts they are wrong. When they don't act they are wrong.

When they help a rebel movement they are wrong. When they don't help a rebel movement they are wrong.

When they help a friendly dictator they are wrong. When they don't help a friendly dictator they are wrong.

When they help their friends they are wrong. When they don't help their friends they are wrong.

 

Reads like that to me reading your points on here.

You obviously haven't understood what I've been trying to get across so again I'll try one last time. I don't want the US to intervene in any middle east/Persian gulf country be it an anti-US dictatorship like Libya, Iraq or Syria because all they want to do is increase their hegemony in the region by swapping one dictator for another dictator, their own puppet dictator and kill and wound tens of thousands of innocent civilians in the process, hundreds of thousands in iraqs case. Neither do I want the US to intervene militarily in their pro-US puppet dictatorships and client states like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain etc, I just want the US to stop propping them up by selling them tens of billions of $$$ worth of arms a year so they can crush their own populations freedom and democracy movements and uprisings. So in short I oppose US imperialism and hegemony in the region, I hope that clears it up for you. Somehow I doubt it has.

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