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Mumby Magic

The Mallard

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Economic is relative ... 35 A4s and 51 A3s were replaced by 22 Deltics. Now, they were economical.

 

But not the most reliable. My uncle used to service them, very complex and when the went wrong, they went wrong in a BIG way. I remember him telling me it wasn't too uncommon for them to throw a con rod. Thing is with the opposed triple V deltic engine when they threw a con rod it could sometimes shoot right out through the side of the engine, ripping a hole like tearing paper. :O

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But not the most reliable. My uncle used to service them, very complex and when the went wrong, they went wrong in a BIG way. I remember him telling me it wasn't too uncommon for them to throw a con rod. Thing is with the opposed triple V deltic engine when they threw a con rod it could sometimes shoot right out through the side of the engine, ripping a hole like tearing paper. :O

 

I was hoping nobody would mention that ... still, they didn't break all that often, compared to the Modernisation Plan dross. Funnily enough, I liked Deltics better when they weren't properly maintained: all the preserved ones today are very shiny, but the engines are too clean, too well-maintained ... don't hardly make no noise at all!

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I was hoping nobody would mention that ... still, they didn't break all that often, compared to the Modernisation Plan dross. Funnily enough, I liked Deltics better when they weren't properly maintained: all the preserved ones today are very shiny, but the engines are too clean, too well-maintained ... don't hardly make no noise at all!

apart from the class 47, 37, 20 and 31 and 08 all of BR's diesels were a waste of money

but to be fair Gresley's locomotives had similar problems includin g Mallard on her record breaking run

it wasn't until the 1950s that maintenance was precise enough to in build reliability into them-this was arguably their heyday.

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I reckon the best value diesels ever are the Class 43 HSTs. Not popular with the fans, I know, but then railways aren't like RL; fans are the least important people. (OK, maybe they are a bit like RL ...)

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I reckon the best value diesels ever are the Class 43 HSTs. Not popular with the fans, I know, but then railways aren't like RL; fans are the least important people. (OK, maybe they are a bit like RL ...)

couldn't agree more. I dfidn't count them as being locomotives

 

still got plenty of go in them after all these years and a wide route availability

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no they were used by Oliver Bulleid on the Southern Railway, and I think by Riddles experimentally on some 9f standard locos.

 

The demands and needs, as well as the coal on US railways were different to UK railways.

 

massive slowreally  long distance freight trains pulled by hugesimple  locomotives using poor quality powdered coal over largely open country lent themselves to mechanical stokers.

 

uk railways for the most part used high quality coal thermal efficiency was more crucial meaning that firing a steam locomtive required a great deal of technique. It wasn't/isn't merely a case of chucking coal through a hole.

 

When Bulleid used mechanical stokers the locos became less steam efficient, and the locos constantly threw out a thick pall of black smoke, which was unacceptable even before the cdlean air act, especially in enclosed railway stations and depots. The experiment was abandoned by both Belleid and Riddles.

 

on uk railways

I remember my dad telling me about serving his time as a fireman. He reckoned that on a gradient they would often burn coal faster than you could shovel it in.

 

The driver wasn't always sympathetic.

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I remember my dad telling me about serving his time as a fireman. He reckoned that on a gradient they would often burn coal faster than you could shovel it in.

 

The driver wasn't always sympathetic.

ha!

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ha!

I'd have backed him against a mechanised stoker any day of the week.  ;) 

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I have a friend who was a stoker. His brother was the driver and they always worked as a team.  When British Railways switched to diesel engines, he wopuld have loved to have become a driver but the drivers' union was against upgrading "labourers".

 

BR re-trained him as a wagon driver.

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I have a friend who was a stoker. His brother was the driver and they always worked as a team.  When British Railways switched to diesel engines, he wopuld have loved to have become a driver but the drivers' union was against upgrading "labourers".

 

BR re-trained him as a wagon driver.

firemen weren't 'stokers'. They had a wide range of duties

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I was hoping nobody would mention that ... still, they didn't break all that often, compared to the Modernisation Plan dross. Funnily enough, I liked Deltics better when they weren't properly maintained: all the preserved ones today are very shiny, but the engines are too clean, too well-maintained ... don't hardly make no noise at all!

A few weeks ago, I was waiting at a station, when a Deltic passed through that you'd like. Looked and sounded rough as a badger's bum. :D

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A few weeks ago, I was waiting at a station, when a Deltic passed through that you'd like. Looked and sounded rough as a badger's bum. :D

 

Are you suer it was a Deltic, I thought all of those that survive were in preservation. There are still some similar looking (to the untrained eye ;) ) engines around on the network such as the class 37s, 45s on freight haulage.

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Are you suer it was a Deltic, I thought all of those that survive were in preservation. There are still some similar looking (to the untrained eye ;) ) engines around on the network such as the class 37s, 45s on freight haulage.

Might not have been, as I'm no expert, but it was that shape. It was pulling a single small (maintenance?) carriage which was in just as scruffy a condition. Very loud, it was, and going like the clappers.

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Might not have been, as I'm no expert, but it was that shape. It was pulling a single small (maintenance?) carriage which was in just as scruffy a condition. Very loud, it was, and going like the clappers.

 

it's possible. Some preserved Deltics do have a mainline ticket: D9009 Alycidon had a trip to Penzance the other week, e.g. So it could well have been one of those going somewhere with its support coach. Although as I say, preserved Deltics are all very shiny.

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I have a friend who was a stoker. His brother was the driver and they always worked as a team.  When British Railways switched to diesel engines, he wopuld have loved to have become a driver but the drivers' union was against upgrading "labourers".

 

BR re-trained him as a wagon driver.

That sounds a little odd to me. The vast majority of drivers and firemen were in the same union, ASLEF. Why would the union want to block the promotion of its own members? The natural progression was from fireman to driver, which was the route my dad took after starting on the railways at 14 as a 'lad porter' (that was his official job title) on Driffield station.

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I'm only repeating what he told me. Perhaps, there were fewer drivers needed on the change from steam to diesel.

 

He started off driving one of these.

 

pch-1960-scammell-scarab-lorry-br.jpg

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I'm only repeating what he told me. Perhaps, there were fewer drivers needed on the change from steam to diesel.

 

He started off driving one of these.

 

pch-1960-scammell-scarab-lorry-br.jpg

 

I remember them, there was a depot up the road from where I lived in Chorley.

 

I must be old. :( 

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Artic-lorry? Them things were called 'mechanical horses' when I were a lad. And yes, we are old.

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Artic-lorry? Them things were called 'mechanical horses' when I were a lad. And yes, we are old.

they really were that as well

the point being thast horses were more manoueverable than vans and they needed something to get where horses could get. Just about every station had at least one.

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Only the British could design and build such a superb loco..

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.and have the coal shovelled in by hand as Mallard races along at over 100 mph when it would have been quite simple to have a mechanical system to do it. If there's a hard way to do something, we'll find it!!

 

It's true that Mallard and her sisters were a superby British design. It's also true that Gresley (the designer) was very heavily influenced by Chapeleon the French designer. The locomotives were basically mofified A3 class machines (Flying Scotsman)  These were originally introuduced by the GN Railway in 1921 as A1 class.  When the first of these "Great Northern" was exhibted at the Wembley exhibition alongside a GWR King class the GWR were claiming their loco was more powerful.  Gresley arranged to borrow one - and yes they were more powerful.  He modified the A1's with larger boilers and better steam passages.  These modified A1's became class A3 - and subseqent design modifications resulted in the A4 - of which Mallard, Union of South Africa, Dominion of Canada, Dwight D Eisenhower, Bittern, and Sir Nigel Gresley are the surviving examples. IMO the steamlined shape owed more to the LNER's marketing dept than to any engineering necessity.  They can all currently  be seen at the NRM.

As for the Princess Coronation locomotives of the LMS, they were more powerful than the A4, but unfortunately the LMS lacked the long downhill straights that can be found on the East Coast Main Line.  One of these held the record of 114 MPH, but this was achieved on the downhill stretch to Crewe station.  The train was still doing 70mph when it hit the curves outside the station. Apparently much of the crockery in the dining car was smashed, fortunately that was the sum of the damage.

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I'm only repeating what he told me. Perhaps, there were fewer drivers needed on the change from steam to diesel.

 

He started off driving one of these.

 

pch-1960-scammell-scarab-lorry-br.jpg

 

I saw one last week at a forties fair at Heywood.

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Artic-lorry? Them things were called 'mechanical horses' when I were a lad. And yes, we are old.

I thought I was but I don't remember them.

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