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forward passes going to video ref

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watched the third lions test yesterday and I was very surprised to see the second lions try was referred up stairs to the video ref to check for a forward pass...... what was interesting was they took no notice of the flight of the ball but the position of the player hands who threw the ball. simply the decision is were the players hands passing the ball backwards yes or no. I think this should be adopted in RL, it is not often we take anything from RU but this should be.

 

thoughts?

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watched the third lions test yesterday and I was very surprised to see the second lions try was referred up stairs to the video ref to check for a forward pass...... what was interesting was they took no notice of the flight of the ball but the position of the player hands who threw the ball. simply the decision is were the players hands passing the ball backwards yes or no. I think this should be adopted in RL, it is not often we take anything from RU but this should be.

thoughts?

If I remember correctly the rule in League states the ball must go backwards from the hands, i.e. if you pass it backwards and it bounces forward its play on.

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No no no no no.

 

It is absolutely not possible to get forward passes accurately judged by TV cameras.

 

I saw that one you are on about and it looked forward to me, the ref thought it was forward, the video ref thought not.

 

Others may watch it and say it wasn't forward, the angle of view makes all the difference, the hands is a complete red herring.

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If I remember correctly the rule in League states the ball must go backwards from the hands, i.e. if you pass it backwards and it bounces forward its play on.

No it states the ball must not go forward, it doesn't say it must go backwards, the backwards thing is a complete myth.

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why discount it? if the video ref cannot make a decision it becomes ref's call which I believe happens in the NRL..... video refs don't have a clear angle for a lot of tries but we don't drop it.....

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Pah!

 

You lot seem to have no shame coming out of the Union closet.

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How would the video ref take wind into account

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Pah!

 

You lot seem to have no shame coming out of the Union closet.

Oddly I was on my way to a rugby league 1895 play at Wigan museum, a play devised by Tony Collins, when I stopped off for a shandy, didn't want to over smell of beer at a kuds even. As I drank my shandy the afore mentioned incident happened, it was the only bit of the game I saw. Also its obviously the only bit of the game worth mentioning.

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Oddly I was on my way to a rugby league 1895 play at Wigan museum, a play devised by Tony Collins, when I stopped off for a shandy, didn't want to over smell of beer at a kuds even. As I drank my shandy the afore mentioned incident happened, it was the only bit of the game I saw. Also its obviously the only bit of the game worth mentioning.

 

A likely story! You were glued to it from start to finish. ;)

 

Anyway, I get the idea that the VR would find it difficult to judge forward passes. However, I would like to see it trialled. Not so that decisions could be overturned, just "How did the VR see that one?" It might not be as difficult as we think.

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...... what was interesting was they took no notice of the flight of the ball but the position of the player hands who threw the ball.

This is what the Refs look for in RL and have done so for numerous years.

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A likely story! You were glued to it from start to finish. ;)

 

Anyway, I get the idea that the VR would find it difficult to judge forward passes. However, I would like to see it trialled. Not so that decisions could be overturned, just "How did the VR see that one?" It might not be as difficult as we think.

 

You have so many problems, a ref has to take in to account did the ball get blown forward by the wind after the player released the ball is just the start of it.

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You have so many problems, a ref has to take in to account did the ball get blown forward by the wind after the player released the ball is just the start of it.

 

Which is why I wouldn't use it to overturn decisions. I would just test it to see if it is feasible or if the problems are insurmountable. I think it could be tested.

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This is what the Refs look for in RL and have done so for numerous years.

have you ever officiated? I have done it for 4 years and it is bloody difficult to watch for this dependant on the angle you are at, who is in your way, the speed at which the game is played etc etc..... which is pretty much why video refs are there any way to help the refs with the bits they could not see.

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How about issuing the linesmen with either glasses or P45's so they actually can see when the ball is passed forward? (ie when I say so)

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I know this is a Union video but it is quite good at showing that even if you pass the ball over your head the ball can travel forward relative to the ground. My understanding was that the ball has to travel backwards from the passer at the moment of release.

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Beat me to it Duff Duff, was about to dig that out

Edit: I was actually about to dig out the 7 min Aussie one from years ago with similar drills

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They are good videos aren't they? I have had so many arguments with people who refuse to acknowledge the need for the forward pass to be relative to the passer at the moment of release and not the ground or the other players. People are very set in their ways about a pass "looking right" and that the pass has to travel absolutely backwards.

If you took the absolute interpretation of the forward pass law then rugby would be an unplayable sport.

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have you ever officiated? I have done it for 4 years and it is bloody difficult to watch for this dependant on the angle you are at, who is in your way, the speed at which the game is played etc etc..... which is pretty much why video refs are there any way to help the refs with the bits they could not see.

Ooooh, I think you may well get a reply to this if I'm not much mistaken,

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Is John Senior still of this parish? I'd love to read his views.

I'm not sure we can get it any better with TV than we do with the refs on forward passes.

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The Union law is that unless the video ref is 100% sure it is a forward pass and then the try should stand. The benefit of the doubt is with the attacking side and and referees original decision.

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The problem with the Union law is that it would cause more unnecessary controversy in the game. Firstly, we'd see a lot more decisions being referred upstairs and their being watched over and over again. The fact that they have to be certain and the difficulty in judging forward passes would result in a lot of controversial decisions. For instance, we would have blatant forward passes let go because they weren't 100% certain. This for me would be worse and more frustrating than a referee missing it during the game.

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 if the video ref cannot make a decision it becomes ref's call which I believe happens in the NRL.....

 

The NRL got rid of Refs Call. Now when a ref goes to the video ref, they have to make a call on whether they believe it was a try or not. Basically, the video ref then has find evidence to either agree or disagree. If, for example, the referee thought it was no try, then the video ref would have to find conclusive evidence in the replays to give a try. If no evidence is found, the try is disallowed.

 

There have been a couple of instances where a try could potentially have been allowed because the on field ref called it as no try but the video evidence was inconclusive. The video ref would have no evidence to disagree with the on field refs original call no matter which way the ref called it. Most times it seems to work though.

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