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Brigg Rover

Lee Briers

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Do players who have had a testimonial (10 years at the one club) have all the wages count against the cap, I thought the dispensation was 50% only counts, Briers, Westwood, Wood have all count in this area.

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Do players who have had a testimonial (10 years at the one club) have all the wages count against the cap, I thought the dispensation was 50% only counts, Briers, Westwood, Wood have all count in this area.

There are a couple of things, I think it is up to £50k limits or similar. Same for providing internationals etc. I think from memory the cap with all boosters is something like £200k higher.

 

There was a detailed post on this board recently explaining it.

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Just to pick up on the Saints point, have you even looked at their squad?

Wellens - international, top star of the game

Gardner - international

Turner - signed him up this year

Soliola - international

Meli - international

Hohaiha - international

Lomax - young star of the future apparently

Perry - NRL star and international

Roby - international superstar

LMS - international

Puletua - international

Manu - top class SL player

Laffranchi - international

Flanagan - decent player

Walmsley - poached from the Championship

They then have a handful of young players who were apparently going to be the future of SL, including:

Makinson

Clough

Wheeler

Jones

Percival

And a couple of players like:

Howarth

O'Brien on loan

So the makeup of their squad is a strong 15 or so, littered with internationals. The next 5 being young lads expected to be stars. Another couple of players possibly short term signings. They then have another three youth players to make up their 25.

Wire have a solid first 17 littered with internationals supplemented with a further 8 locally developed players to fill up the squad.

Whilst you also mention Leeds with the signing of Vickery, you then ignore the signing of Moon to complement their huge list of international stars.

Using leeds and Saints was a bad example.

Surely you're undermining your own argument by including people like Walmsley in your list of 'top earners' at Saints, whilst at the same time claiming people like Moz and Briers are only on £100k at Warrington.

It's common knowledge that most young players at Leeds are actually on fairly meagre contracts (Mark Calderwood wasn't even a 20-20 player when he left despite being an established first grade player). It's also well known that a lot of players at Leeds could earn far more elsewhere but stick around because of the strong club culture.

When the likes of Leeds and Saints have injuries their forced to draft in kids and journeymen. Warrington, on the other hand can lose a centre or standoff and fetch in internationals to replace them (Bridge, Evans, Ratchford) can afford to have two established top level hookers (Higham and Monaghan) vying for a starting berth, have international props like Moz and Carvell on the bench and can afford to practically discard players like McCarthy.

I'm not saying Warrington are cheating the cap but I am saying they do well to fit more top line stars in their squad than most of their rivals seem able to.

What's more annoying is when that annoying person, Stevo, claims on Backchat that Salford's wage bill next season is going to be over £3million before we've actually signed anyone!

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Surely you're undermining your own argument by including people like Walmsley in your list of 'top earners' at Saints, whilst at the same time claiming people like Moz and Briers are only on £100k at Warrington.

It's common knowledge that most young players at Leeds are actually on fairly meagre contracts (Mark Calderwood wasn't even a 20-20 player when he left despite being an established first grade player). It's also well known that a lot of players at Leeds could earn far more elsewhere but stick around because of the strong club culture.

When the likes of Leeds and Saints have injuries their forced to draft in kids and journeymen. Warrington, on the other hand can lose a centre or standoff and fetch in internationals to replace them (Bridge, Evans, Ratchford) can afford to have two established top level hookers (Higham and Monaghan) vying for a starting berth, have international props like Moz and Carvell on the bench and can afford to practically discard players like McCarthy.

I'm not saying Warrington are cheating the cap but I am saying they do well to fit more top line stars in their squad than most of their rivals seem able to.

What's more annoying is when that annoying person, Stevo, claims on Backchat that Salford's wage bill next season is going to be over £3million before we've actually signed anyone!

I didn't do the list as top-earners as such. Walmsley was a similar signing for Saints as Hill was for us.

 

I also didn't claim that Moz and Briers were on £100k. I used the point for the top 13 on £100k at a blended level. I suspect players are on far less than people actually think anyway, and I'd expect we have a handful of players on £100k plus, maybe the top 6-8 earners. 

I'd expect the likes of Riley, Harrison, Grix, Hill, Wood, Bridge, Cooper etc will not be anywhere near £100k, and tbh I wouldn't be suprised if the likes of Myler, Ratchford are on less than people think. Don't forget not all of Briers and Westwood's wages count on the cap.

 

You are happy to believe that Leeds pay under the going rate, but won't believe the same about Warrington?

 

If you were offered £100k at Castleford (no disrespect) or £85k at Warrington, where would you go?

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Surely you're undermining your own argument by including people like Walmsley in your list of 'top earners' at Saints, whilst at the same time claiming people like Moz and Briers are only on £100k at Warrington.

It's common knowledge that most young players at Leeds are actually on fairly meagre contracts (Mark Calderwood wasn't even a 20-20 player when he left despite being an established first grade player). It's also well known that a lot of players at Leeds could earn far more elsewhere but stick around because of the strong club culture.

When the likes of Leeds and Saints have injuries their forced to draft in kids and journeymen. Warrington, on the other hand can lose a centre or standoff and fetch in internationals to replace them (Bridge, Evans, Ratchford) can afford to have two established top level hookers (Higham and Monaghan) vying for a starting berth, have international props like Moz and Carvell on the bench and can afford to practically discard players like McCarthy.

I'm not saying Warrington are cheating the cap but I am saying they do well to fit more top line stars in their squad than most of their rivals seem able to.

What's more annoying is when that annoying person, Stevo, claims on Backchat that Salford's wage bill next season is going to be over £3million before we've actually signed anyone!

To address the two examples of stacking players:

 

Centres - we have Bridge and Atkins as our 3 and 4. Bridge has struggled with injuries, so Ratchford has come in at 3. Evans shouldn't make any kind of list when you are talking about big name players, and we never signed Ratchford as a centre, he is doing a job there, he is a utility.

 

Basically we haven't stacked any position, we signed a utility (Ratchford) as we knew we had an ageing squad with some injury problems, and he has covered for Hodgson, Bridge and Briers. It's not like we went out and signed an international centre to sit in the stands in case we needed him, like happened at Wigan in the 80/90's.

 

As for hooker, Higham is a journeyman who has been given a new lease of life at Warrington. Hardly like we have Roby and Lunt on our books.

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Nobody's saying you're 'cheating the cap.' Only someone with inside knowledge could say that with any degree of certainly.

We have to assume that you're managing your resources effectively; I just hope the same assumption is applied when Salford eventually assemble a competitive squad.

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Not as knackered as the bloke 'accounting' for Wire's salary cap!

 

 

Nobody's saying you're 'cheating the cap.' Only someone with inside knowledge could say that with any degree of certainly.

We have to assume that you're managing your resources effectively; I just hope the same assumption is applied when Salford eventually assemble a competitive squad.

Then what were you saying?

 

Just a quick question, how much is Morley going to being paid by Salford next season?

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Nobody's saying you're 'cheating the cap.' Only someone with inside knowledge could say that with any degree of certainly.

We have to assume that you're managing your resources effectively; I just hope the same assumption is applied when Salford eventually assemble a competitive squad.

You've insinuated it on a few threads, not just this one.

 

If you go out and sign 5 or 6 major names then you will always get some people asking questions, some people are just jealous and will hate to see the emergence of a club like Salford, just like we have seen that at Warrington. Some people don't like it.

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I'm actually quite comfortable with clubs circumventing the cap if they can afford to. It's not like the cap is really there to level things out.

The main effective use of the cap is to enable clubs to have a bit more leverage in contract negotiations, thus preventing unaffordable wage inflation ("we'd love to pay you more but we're up to our cap limit.....")

What annoys me is people like Stevo (and more than a few on here) slating Salford before we've even signed anyone of note.

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Pottsy - First you stated this:

"It's common knowledge that most young players at Leeds are actually on fairly meagre contracts"

And then you aimed this at Dave:

"Only someone with inside knowledge could say that with any degree of certainty"

Yet you are the one talking about "undermining your own argument".

Hmmmmm....

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If you were offered £100k at Castleford (no disrespect) or £85k at Warrington, where would you go?

I have been saying for some time that this is the flaw in the cap been used in the argument to Crete an even competition. It doesn't. If you want an even comp, the lesser lights such as Salford need to be able to over spend to attract the better players.

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Pottsy - First you stated this:

"It's common knowledge that most young players at Leeds are actually on fairly meagre contracts"

And then you aimed this at Dave:

"Only someone with inside knowledge could say that with any degree of certainly"

Yet you are the one talking about "undermining your own argument".

Hmmmmm....

Not really, because I have first hand info regarding Leeds.

Perhaps Dave T has the same level of info at Warrington. Perhaps not.

I don't, so I can only speculate.

The initial quip was just that: a quip. I didn't anticipate such a massive bite from Dave T. Perhaps he does have inside knowledge of Warrington's cap after all.

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Not really, because I have first hand info regarding Leeds.

Perhaps Dave T has the same level of info at Warrington. Perhaps not.

I don't, so I can only speculate.

Give it up mate, seriously. You now admit that you are purely speculating.

As for "first hand info" about Leeds players' salaries, I doubt it somehow.

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Give it up mate, seriously. You now admit that you are purely speculating.

As for "first hand info" about Leeds players' salaries, I doubt it somehow.

I'm not admitting anything. I didn't claim inside knowledge if Warrington in the first place.

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Give it up mate, seriously. You now admit that you are purely speculating.

As for "first hand info" about Leeds players' salaries, I doubt it somehow.

I have the same 'first hand info': Sinfield said it in a post-Grand Final interview once. Then one of the Leeds fans on here (TWIG?) repeated it. Cast-iron that.

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I have been saying for some time that this is the flaw in the cap been used in the argument to Crete an even competition. It doesn't. If you want an even comp, the lesser lights such as Salford need to be able to over spend to attract the better players.

I'm not sure that could work though. In the example I give above, even offering 15-20% above another club may not allow a poor club to compete. So where would you stop?

 

What the cap does is slow growth down of a club, and I'm not too uncomfortable with that. It makes things difficult - clubs will probably have to pay over the odds for a couple of players for a couple of years and grow a touch more slowly than they would like, but as I have said before, IMHO it's right that is difficult to go from the bottom to the top.

 

I've seen it at my club - we started to make 'big' signings from 2004 when we moved into the new ground (if you exclude the recklessness of the Langer/Nikau/Gee era) with Martin Gleeson and the short term deal of Johns. Alongside these signings though were Danny Lima, Chris Leikvoll, John Wilshere etc. We had to build up slowly, and it (imho) made for more sustainable growth as a club.

Alongside a steady stream of signings over the years we have focused on bringing our own youth in too - we never went out and signed a dozen world class players in one go - I'm not sure we should have rules in place to allow that when in reality the Salford situation is a unique one.

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Not really, because I have first hand info regarding Leeds.

Perhaps Dave T has the same level of info at Warrington. Perhaps not.

I don't, so I can only speculate.

The initial quip was just that: a quip. I didn't anticipate such a massive bite from Dave T. Perhaps he does have inside knowledge of Warrington's cap after all.

Nah, generally I take people's comments at face value - especially when they have been written on more than one occasion. 

 

I didn't realise you were trolling, I come on here for RL discussion, I'll bear this in mind with your future posts.

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Nah, generally I take people's comments at face value - especially when they have been written on more than one occasion.

I didn't realise you were trolling, I come on here for RL discussion, I'll bear this in mind with your future posts.

Put your nickers back on; it was a a throwaway quip. I wasn't expecting a bite, or at least not one of this magnitude.

Perhaps you doth protest too much.

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No one knows if Warrington or anyone else is breaking the cap. Not even the RFL.

Until the RFL demand sight of player's and their partner/spouse's bank accounts and tax returns then no one will know what players are earning.

The whole salary cap is a sham!

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No one knows if Warrington or anyone else is breaking the cap. Not even the RFL.

Until the RFL demand sight of player's and their partner/spouse's bank accounts and tax returns then no one will know what players are earning.

The whole salary cap is a sham!

Oh here we go. I bet Rogues Gallery has an account on here too.

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So why does the game bother with the salary cap - it is the clubs themselves that imposes the cap?

 

If they don't want to adhere to it, just scrap it!

 

No doubt it'll be something to do with the nasty rich clubs having better financial managers and being able to get round the system whereas the poor lower clubs are the only ones playing by the rules.

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So why does the game bother with the salary cap - it is the clubs themselves that imposes the cap?

If they don't want to adhere to it, just scrap it!

No doubt it'll be something to do with the nasty rich clubs having better financial managers antd being able to get round the system whereas the poor lower clubs are the only ones playing by the rules.

It's a handy bargaining tool when negotiating with players and agents and helps to inhibit wage inflation. Nothing more, nothing less.

If we really had delusions of being able to use it to create a 'level playing field' we'd employ a team of forensic accountants to police it. As it is, the fact we don't speaks volumes.

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So back on topic,no body seems to have to much to add apart from HKRAD who doesn't think its true.

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So back on topic,no body seems to have to much to add apart from HKRAD who doesn't think its true.

That's about the long and short of it.

Briers is a Warrington legend. I'd be amazed if he'd go anywhere else at this stage in his life. I'd also be amazed if Warrington didn't want to keep him for as long as his body and form holds up.

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It's a handy bargaining tool when negotiating with players and agents and helps to inhibit wage inflation. Nothing more, nothing less.

If we really had delusions of being able to use it to create a 'level playing field' we'd employ a team of forensic accountants to police it. As it is, the fact we don't speaks volumes.

But surely the players will know that the cap is being avoided too, so that sort of gets rid of that benefit. 

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