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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

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If I was the RFU, I'd look at recruiting the top 6 SL clubs to come into the Aviva Premiership. Surely they would consider switching given the basket-case SL has now become, and the RFU would benefit from a big presence in the north.

SL has essentially committed Hari Kari last night bringing back P&R, so as much as I dislike Union, switching codes is probably the only hope for SL's big clubs.

A few too many characters for RL Meltdown. Pity.

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The fact that they are reverting to 12 teams tells me more than enough about the ambition of the clubs and hence the British game. And I aren't sure I want to be part of it.

You could say its actually expanding up to as many as 24 teams John if extra funding is available which seems likely. Some teams in the initial second tier will go full time therefore driving standards up and providing stiff competition for the lower end SL clubs when the play offs come around.

At least relegated teams will have a soft landing and a good opportunity to bounce back without boom and bust, as some people fear. I think it will be a really exciting, all year round competition, for all clubs if they go for the RFL's favoured option 3

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Because they weren't given an option that didn't involve P&R

Rubbish, get your facts right

Edited by Terry Mullaney

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Been away from this forum and things are going from bad to worse. My tuppence h'apenny worth:

 

First the Broncos situation has been coming for some time, I suspect as with CKN's post that this decision is simply the last nail in the coffin lid.

 

Secondly, I would remind those "Big Club" fans  celebrating the 12 team league particularily from Warrington and Saints that as any Bradford fan can tell you you do remain at the top forever and at least one of your clubs is more financially challenged than people realise.

 

Thirdly, posting as an ex-TU Steward (So was Norman Tebbit i might add so suspend your disbelief ) I am truly amazed that Jonh Wilkin could be so sanguine in accepting job losses from his members in the two soon to be relegated clubs leaving Super League. Players dropping from full time contracts to part-time - assuming their club survives the drop - will suffer a severe hit to their familes living standards. Not all will find a contract elsewhere. 1eague3 is exposed now as a staff association with a leadership that apparently acts in favour of the haves rather than the have nots. Players would have been better off with the GMB.

 

Fourth point , Toulouse will now not get into Super League. Expansion of the game is indeed dead as organic growth has never and will never work. The money will not be there for who invests in a game played in a few small towns on the M62.

French rugby league will suffer arrested development and Catalans long term future must be in doubt with Wood confirming that the club wil go down to the championship if in a relegation spot. The game appears to have decided that the development of French rugby league as a viable competitor in the Northern Hemisphere is not a strategic priority.

 

Fifth point, Investors will not be attracted to a regional sport thaty is not even Northern in coverage. though I suppose yesterdays decision brings the Payday Loans Super League one stage closer.

 

Sixth point.the remaining 12 clubs will raise the salary cap, partly funded by dividing 14 shares into 12. This will permanently damn Championship clubs to a yo-yo existence and in some cases bankrupcy. Yesterday's decision does not reduce the funding gap between the two leagues but will extend it. To you Flatcappers, as we say down here you will find you have been "done up like a kipper"  

 

Seventh point, As we can already see the remaining 12 "big" clubs will go waving the cheque books down under without realising that while the exchange rate between England and Australia may be temporarily in Australia's favour. The NRL by virtue of being the most popular winter code in the Eastern states and now with a truly independent commission will be able to command a TV deal that will permanently alter the balance of purchasing power in the NRL's favour regardless of how much the exchange rate fluctuates back to the UK in the future.

 

Eighth point, within 3 years Super League clubs will go cap in hand to the NRL for assistance. but what would be in it for th NRL ?. I am sure that Gus Gould will be making the point that with the best English players in the NRL already. the only future relationship between the NRL and a regional sport will be not as equals but similar to that of teams in the Queensland Cup. A feeder league where the best juniors can join an NRL side and juniors in need of game time can play Super League.

 

Ninth point, Some clubs have already opened back chanels of communication with Premiership Rugby (Union). Again as with the NRL. As Super League continues to contract what is in it for the Union clubs to associate with a decaying sport. After all "organic growth" will ensure that Juniors join Union ranks equipped with a better skill set while younger players and coaches from "traditional" clubs are already losing no time in crossing the divide. 

 

Tenth and most crucial point is that SKY do appear to be losing interest in League as a property with Monday night games moved for lower division soccer and a T20 league set for Friday nights next summer. Coupled with no World Cup coverage . I think you can look forward to games played on any day with a "y" in it from 2015 and with SKY subscfriptions already being raised to help the company build up its war chest to compete for the major sporting properties with the cashed up BT (i.e. exclusive rights to the major national sports in the UK) it is now known that many other sports will have a reduced deal to compensate. Of course the regional league could go to Premier Sports but that would mean a subscription channel offering no more than a reduced SKY deal with a lower subscriber base. That is of course if Premier Sports are around in 2015. The next SKY offer will be lower and on a take it or leave it basis.

 

As for the recession having been to plenty of sold out T20 games recently and noting this was achieved for the Roses Derby in the North all I will say is that other sports must be "recession proof" and this is a lame excuse for low crowds

 

I was one of the first to post that the game was turning into a feeder league for the NRL and RFU a few years ago. It would appear that by its own hand the game appears resolutely determined to go down the gurgler and things are speeding up. Its a shame but the games problems are entrely self-inflicted.and the result of clubs acting in their own interest without thinking that a strategic investment in the games future would benefit all.

Well_that_escalated_quickly.jpg

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You could say its actually expanding up to as many as 24 teams John if extra funding is available which seems likely. Some teams in the initial second tier will go full time therefore driving standards up and providing stiff competition for the lower end SL clubs when the play offs come around.

At least relegated teams will have a soft landing and a good opportunity to bounce back without boom and bust, as some people fear. I think it will be a really exciting, all year round competition, for all clubs if they go for the RFL's favoured option 3

I could look at it like that, yes. But I don't. I see it as a retreat. And not sure there is a way back

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Haven't the RFL confirmed London and Catalans are exempt?

So there will be a mad scramble to avoid the bottom two slots next season, who will fill them?

Barring financial collapse of a current top 8 club it's a race between Cas, Salford and Wakey

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I don't think there's anything melodramatic about it mate. It's not merely cutting cloth to suit.

To me its pretty much admitting that RL will never amount to much beyond a few small towns. If that's the reality of the situation, then so be it. But it doesn't stop it from being depressing and sad imo.

not really, it depends where they go from here.

RU the bigger sport has a 12 team league with no issues.

We have too many week teams - with hindsight moving to 14 when we did was badly thought out and badly timed.

Bringing Catalan into the league added plenty, expanding the league for two poor clubs in Celtic and Salford detracted from SL.

The next vote makes me nervous, but down to 12 is probably right for me.

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Haven't the RFL confirmed London and Catalans are exempt?

 

I doubt it. The writing was already on the wall for Broncos.

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The future strength of rugby league being decided by what'll be exciting for clubs 9-15 in the pyramid.

 

I remain to be convinced.

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Haven't the RFL confirmed London and Catalans are exempt?

The RFL have confirmed that no clubs will be exempt from potential relegation from SL.

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No, it just shows how small minded some people within the game are.

Small minded?

 

They moved from 12 to 14 teams since then we've had near bankruptcies from quite a few SL clubs.

 

It's not like they didn't try 14.

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so......its

12 teams in SL

12 teams in the championship

14 teams in championship 1

with 1up & 1down P&R between the 3 divisons (tbc)

that'll do for me....i like it

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I'm not sure why he called Sheff "traditional" but he didn't say that Toulouse weren't traditional - he said that they would get in at the expense of named traditional clubs.

what the chuff is a traditional club anyway?

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what the chuff is a traditional club anyway?

True.

 

Some clubs have been around longer than others, That's all that can be said about it. 

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As a spectator this is great news IMO.

 

Soon we'll have a very exciting Championship with the ultimate prize of promotion at the end.

 

I know there are lots of people not happy with the decision and it may well be very detrimental to some clubs but you can't beat P&R for excitement come the end of the season.

 

I hope the supporters of all second tier clubs (whoever they may be) turn out in numbers and make the championship an exciting even competition where we're all fighting to go up.

 

IMO the best way to expand the game is to make it exciting and interesting. At the moment i don't think it is and these changes are a step in the right direction. We need to make it very popular in the heartlands before we can expand further. I live in Pontefract and don't know anyone who likes or watches RL apart from my dad (and that's cas, wake, fev leeds or anyone). Surely we need to make it very popular along the M62 again before we worry to much about expanding – I do think another french team would be good if viable though.....they seem to really like it down there.

 

I think the only way this is a backward step is if the 2nd tier just gets forgotten about again...........it's up to the RFL and the supporters to make sure it doesn't.

 

I for one will be telling all my soccer mad mates that P&R is back and it's not "pointless" anymore and there is something to play for and they've not no excuse not to get back down to Post Office Road!!!!

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So for those that think this is a good idea, answer these questions:

 

a) So a team has an injury crisis (i.e. like Saints atm) and finish in the relegation spots as a result. Is it fair that that club essentially has to make all its staff redundant and lose all its players in order to go to a semi-pro team? Then if it survives and gets promoted again, it has to re-build all those structures and systems again from scratch, and recruit an entire new team?

 

B) When a team is promoted, it will essentially recruit the players from the relegated team, and include 10-12 reserve-grade standard Australians as it is 'necessary for survival'. So does RL development go out the window for that club?

 

c) The same thing for those near the bottom, none will invest and give young players a chance (which they do now under licensing), and will recruit foreign imports en masse instead. So where does England's young players come from then in future? The game can't rely on 2-3 clubs to develop it's talent.

 

d) What happens when Catalans get relegated, and subsequently revert to the semi-pro French RL? Is that the end of trying to promote the French game?

 

e) What happens to investors (like Dr. Koukash, Andrew Glover etc.) once their team is relegated? They will walk away from the game and the club will go out of business?

 

f) What happens when Super League consists entirely of teams from small northern towns like Featherstone, Keighley, Halifax, Leigh etc. playing in front of 3,000 fans? How much will our TV rights be worth?

 

I'd like to see the pro-P&R fans come up with constructive answers to this. The fact is, P&R returning is the worst thing that can happen to RL. It will be the death of the game.

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Going up going up going up! Yee ha

 

How are Leigh going up?

 

2014 could very well see the 12 for 2015 decided simply by relegating 2.

 

At least one of those will expect to come back up in 2016.  1 up, 1 down seems the most likely.

 

Leigh might have a shot after that.

 

Maybe.

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Oh yeah, misread that one

Ok London are gone for good then, probably one of Cas, Wakey and Salford - who out of the three only Salford would get back in

Who in the Championship could get promotion if its based on "Standards" as suggested?

Any?

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12 is the right number because that's what we have the resources for.

 

But P&R has never worked in RL. In fact, it was so bad that people were determined to get rid of it and move to licencing. Now, after just four and a half years we're running back to something we know doesn't work. Brilliant.

 

This is slated to start in 2015. Absolutely guaranteed that half way through 2017 we'll be having this discussion again. Only at that point we'll have no London and quite possibly have missed the boat on Toulouse as well.

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1) So a team has an injury crisis (i.e. like Saints atm) and finish in the relegation spots as a result. Is it fair that that club essentially has to make all its staff redundant and lose all its players in order to go to a semi-pro team? Then if it survives and gets promoted again, it has to re-build all those structures and systems again from scratch, and recruit an entire new team?

2) What happens when Catalans get relegated, and subsequently revert to the semi-pro French RL? Is that the end of trying to promote the French game?

3) What happens when Super League consists entirely of teams from small northern towns like Featherstone, Keighley, Halifax, Leigh etc. playing in front of 3,000 fans? How much will our TV rights be worth?

I'd like to see the pro-P&R fans come up with constructive answers to this. The fact is, P&R returning is the worst thing that can happen to RL. It will be the death of the game.

1, Tough. That's sport. Plus there will be parachute payments so a club could retain staff and some players and remain full time

2, see above.

3, You know that some of them teams mentioned are actually bigger towns and areas than ones currently in SL don't you?

Edited by a.n Other

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