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l'angelo mysterioso

Civil Wars

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when countries have civil wars how do they function as countries.

I've seen the collapse of the fabric of societies and famines ensue, especially in africa, but this doesn't necessarily seem to be the case

people still go to work, school, turn the taps on and water comes out and so on. It seems odd to me that nations  dont always implode when there is civil strife

 

 

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Countries that have civil wars don't necessarily have running water to begin with nor salaried employment either.

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I think that the (un)United States of America would disagree. At the start of their Civil war many people had jobs farms and land and the country was completely ripped apart. The effects are only just now almost 150 years on being removed. Indeed even after 100 years the divisions were still there.

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Countries that have civil wars don't necessarily have running water to begin with nor salaried employment either.

I know that and alluded to it but for instance the former yugoslavia did, Syria has, Libya has and so on. I was using a metaphor anyway

 

and there are more historic examples also.

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I think that the (un)United States of America would disagree. At the start of their Civil war many people had jobs farms and land and the country was completely ripped apart. The effects are only just now almost 150 years on being removed. Indeed even after 100 years the divisions were still there.

the country was by no means completely ripped apart

I would suggest though that the divisions you mention exist to ths day

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the country was by no means completely ripped apart

I would suggest though that the divisions you mention exist to ths day

Yeh you are right, the North was untouched, and It could be debated that it wasn't a country to start with, just a confederation of states. The war changed all that.

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Yeh you are right, the North was untouched, and It could be debated that it wasn't a country to start with, just a confederation of states. The war changed all that.

good point bb

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I know that and alluded to it but for instance the former yugoslavia did, Syria has, Libya has and so on. I was using a metaphor anyway

 

and there are more historic examples also.

Yugoslavia was a federal country and whilst the Yugoslav government lost control of Croatia, Bosnia etc, there were still Croatian & Bosnian governments.

 

The Libyan civil war lasted only a few months really.

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Yugoslavia was a federal country and whilst the Yugoslav government lost control of Croatia, Bosnia etc, there were still Croatian & Bosnian governments.

 

The Libyan civil war lasted only a few months really.

I know

 

a 'few months' of civil war is a long time if you are trying to live your life in the middle of it.

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I know

 

a 'few months' of civil war is a long time if you are trying to live your life in the middle of it.

It is but not enough to cause "implosion" if international aid is available.

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Last year, I got to know a Kenyan student doing an MA in Peace Studies at Bradford University.

 

She said that she wouldn't go to Northern Kenya because it was full of Islamist terrorists who want to take over that section of the country for Islamic rule. Apparently, a woman not wearing Islamic dress would put her life at risk in certain towns. There are loads of killings and the Kenyan government does nothing about it.

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Last year, I got to know a Kenyan student doing an MA in Peace Studies at Bradford University.

She said that she wouldn't go to Northern Kenya because it was full of Islamist terrorists who want to take over that section of the country for Islamic rule. Apparently, a woman not wearing Islamic dress would put her life at risk in certain towns. There are loads of killings and the Kenyan government does nothing about it.

You'd inveigle Islam into a thread discussing the merits of different soap powders

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Islamic division is the cause of most current civil wars.

What the hell has that got to do with hone topic

If you want to rant about Muslims Start yet another thread about it

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How many civil wars have we had other than the one in the 17th century?Is the wars of the roses regarded as a civil war?and the other war for the throne in the 12th century?

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Last year, I got to know a Kenyan student doing an MA in Peace Studies at Bradford University.

 

She said that she wouldn't go to Northern Kenya because it was full of Islamist terrorists who want to take over that section of the country for Islamic rule. Apparently, a woman not wearing Islamic dress would put her life at risk in certain towns. There are loads of killings and the Kenyan government does nothing about it.

 

North eastern Kenya is pretty lawless. Armed bandits roam the bush up there and have caused issues for the British Army units training at Archers Post. I remember being woken up by the sound of bullets whizzing over the top of my tent as the bandits and Kenyan Police Force fought each other. Isolo on route up to that area is a particularly hairy location and the religious divisions in the town are particularly noticeable; again my Battlegroup was shot at driving through the town. The area is pretty vast and barren but there are large numbers of Kenyan Army personnel in the area as it is the main supply route to the Kenyan contingent in Somalia. Whilst there are tensions and incidents as described, the threat of civil war is minimal presently.

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How many civil wars have we had other than the one in the 17th century?Is the wars of the roses regarded as a civil war?and the other war for the throne in the 12th century?

 

Yes, the Wars of the Roses are reckoned to be civil wars. As is the 'anarchy' (in the pre-UK) of King Stephen and the Empress Matilda. Other conflicts are more usually described as rebellions, but I suppose it depends on what your definition is: there were barons revolts against Kings John, Henry III, Edward II and Henry IV, the Peasants Revolt, the Perkin Warbeck and Lambert Simnel affairs against Henry VII, the Pilgrimage of Grace against Henry VIII, the Monmouth farce against James II and many, many others. 

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Islamic division is the cause of most current civil wars.

 

That's a fairly broad if inaccurate generalisation.  The English Civil Wars most certainly weren't caused by Islam, possibly by Christianity but not by Islam. Same goes for the more recent Northern Ireland "troubles" - a civil war in everything but name, or the Spanish Civil War which was most certainly fomented by the Catholic Church.

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Very interesting question. I've read a lot about the Spanish civil war, but I doubt I have a particularly informed response to the OP from a Spanish perspective. I suspect the war's impact on the population ebbed and flowed depending on the geographical focus. The Nationalists marched into Las Palmas early doors with next to no resistance, changed the leadership, threw out the politicians, changed the flag and left their friends to get on with it. Times were exceptionally tough, but day to day life was pretty normal. Life in under sieged cities like Madrid and Barcelona that had street to street fighting with the majority of the male population, kids evacuated abroad, etc. must have been very different. Sanitary conditions and food supplies collapsed completely, indeed intentionally worsening the daily life for ordinary people was very much a tactic when trying to capture a city. Grim.

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Very interesting question. I've read a lot about the Spanish civil war, but I doubt I have a particularly informed response to the OP from a Spanish perspective. I suspect the war's impact on the population ebbed and flowed depending on the geographical focus. The Nationalists marched into Las Palmas early doors with next to no resistance, changed the leadership, threw out the politicians, changed the flag and left their friends to get on with it. Times were exceptionally tough, but day to day life was pretty normal. Life in under sieged cities like Madrid and Barcelona that had street to street fighting with the majority of the male population, kids evacuated abroad, etc. must have been very different. Sanitary conditions and food supplies collapsed completely, indeed intentionally worsening the daily life for ordinary people was very much a tactic when trying to capture a city. Grim.

Anthony beevor's book is excellent

I can't help thinking

Do people still go to work

Do countries still import and export

Is there still a cultural life and so on

As ever your perspective is interesting

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Very interesting question. I've read a lot about the Spanish civil war, but I doubt I have a particularly informed response to the OP from a Spanish perspective. I suspect the war's impact on the population ebbed and flowed depending on the geographical focus. The Nationalists marched into Las Palmas early doors with next to no resistance, changed the leadership, threw out the politicians, changed the flag and left their friends to get on with it. Times were exceptionally tough, but day to day life was pretty normal. Life in under sieged cities like Madrid and Barcelona that had street to street fighting with the majority of the male population, kids evacuated abroad, etc. must have been very different. Sanitary conditions and food supplies collapsed completely, indeed intentionally worsening the daily life for ordinary people was very much a tactic when trying to capture a city. Grim.

 

I have just read 'Homeage to Catalonia' by George Orwell. Very interesting read and a good indicator of why the Republic/Communists faltered in their resistance to Franco.

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