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walter sobchak

George Zimmerman

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A guy(zimmerman) who was a private security guard of a gated community in Florida was found not guilty today of killing a black youth with a gun, who he suspected of being "up to no good." He followed the youth and confronted him, a scuffle broke out and the youth then got the upper hand in which Zimmerman(the guard) shot and killed him at close range. In Florida they passed a law the "stand your ground law" in which people will not be charged if they shoot and kill anybody in an act of "self defence." This to me is a stupid and dangerous law as there will be too many wannabe clint eastwoods and Charles Bronson type vigilantes looking for trouble.

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I think legally you will find he is not guilty of murder due to trail by jury.

Perhaps you could start another 3 threads making that clear. 

Just like OJ Simpson was not guilty by jury. 

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The defence seems to be that he was black and therefore innocent. He had form didn't he?

Not saying that justifies being shot but. ...

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Perhaps you could start another 3 threads making that clear. 

That was most likely a fault in the forum software at present causing multiple threads.  I deleted the two duplicates.

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He was found innocent by a jury wasn't he? how has he got away with it? what happened?

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The defence seems to be that he was black and therefore innocent. He had form didn't he?

Not saying that justifies being shot but. ...

Not at all, trayvon Martin(the victim) was visiting his dads fiancé who lived in the gated community and he was unarmed, Zimmerman(the guard) profiled him and then gave chase telling the 911 police dispatch "he was up to no good" and "looked like he was on drugs" before confronting him. The big issue for me is the "stand your ground" law which potentially allows armed citizens in florida to be judge, jury and executioner, as this case proves.

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What it means is, in Florida I can go out with a gun, spot someone I think is up to no good, challenge them and if they threaten me, I can gun them down, even if they unarmed.

 

Glad I don't live there.

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Not at all, trayvon Martin(the victim) was visiting his dads fiancé who lived in the gated community and he was unarmed, Zimmerman(the guard) profiled him and then gave chase telling the 911 police dispatch "he was up to no good" and "looked like he was on drugs" before confronting him. The big issue for me is the "stand your ground" law which potentially allows armed citizens in florida to be judge, jury and executioner, as this case proves.

That's a very one sided account.

 

Trayvon should have had a passcard to get into the gated community. You can't just enter a gated community like it was a UK housing estate, you need official permission to be there (which Trayvon didn't have).

 

Zimmerman did not "profile" him, he spotted him, phoned the police and the police asked him what race Martin was. CNN produced an edited version of the phone call that made it sound like Zimmerman brought up his race without being prompted. Zimmerman was not a guard but he was with the neighbourhood watch, something which has a very different meaning from a UK understanding of "neighbourhood watch". In essence he had the right to confront Trayvon to ask if he had permission to be there.

 

Trayvon may have had form as a burglar. He was suspended from school, was involved in a "fight club" and was discovered with a woman's jewelry and a screwdriver in his bag. He may well have been acting suspiciously. We know that Trayvon used a racist term to describe Zimmerman because Trayvon's girlfriend said he did.

 

All witnesses and physical evidence back Zimmerman's account that he was attacked and merely used his gun to defend his life. There was never any likelihood of a conviction. The case was only brought to avoid a "Rodney King" scenario.

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What it means is, in Florida I can go out with a gun, spot someone I think is up to no good, challenge them and if they threaten me, I can gun them down, even if they unarmed.

 

Glad I don't live there.

No.

 

But if you had the right to challenge them and had been beaten up, you could use the gun to protect your life.

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Not at all, trayvon Martin(the victim) was visiting his dads fiancé who lived in the gated community and he was unarmed, Zimmerman(the guard) profiled him and then gave chase telling the 911 police dispatch "he was up to no good" and "looked like he was on drugs" before confronting him. The big issue for me is the "stand your ground" law which potentially allows armed citizens in florida to be judge, jury and executioner, as this case proves.

No, that wasn't the full story at all. 

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No, that wasn't the full story at all.

What was it then?

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What was it then?

 

Whatever Zimmerman said it was

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What was it then?

Pick a side and believe them. Unless you were there, you simply don't know. 

 

But, and I don't want this to sound funny, I aren't going to believe Martin simply because he is black.

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Pick a side and believe them. Unless you were there, you simply don't know. 

 

But, and I don't want this to sound funny, I aren't going to believe Martin simply because he is black.

 

Hard to know what to believe as he's dead

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Hard to know what to believe as he's dead

But fortunately we have eye witnesses, an autopsy, phone records, doctor's report and sound recordings.

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There were obvious issues with this case but the important thing for me was that the prosecution had to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt,' and there was obvious doubt.

I don't know if anybody caught the Murder Trial on Channel 4 this week. Whilst an obviously shady character, I was surprised that the person in question was found guilty as it was another 'beyond reasonable doubt' case. He was known not to have taken his wife and the only link was a testimony of an incredibly dodgy witness. I found it hard to believe that they didn't know previous details of the case, especially his previous convictions.

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There were obvious issues with this case but the important thing for me was that the prosecution had to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt,' and there was obvious doubt.

 

More than that there a doctor's report that cited Zimmerman's broken nose, lacerated head etc. Trayvon was uninjured (aside from obvious bullet wound) but had bruising to his knuckles. Witnesses reported seeing one man on top of the other. Cops reported grass stains on Zimmerman's back. There is a 911 call made by a witness that has prolonged, loud screaming in the background etc etc.

 

Every single piece of evidence pointed to self-defence. 

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Also, please remember the libel laws of this country.  He was found not guilty by a court of law, that adds a massive burden of proof to anyone who says he's guilty or got away with murder.  Please remember that when you post on this thread.

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Also, please remember the libel laws of this country.  He was found not guilty by a court of law, that adds a massive burden of proof to anyone who says he's guilty or got away with murder.  Please remember that when you post on this thread.

 

True enough, and I've certainly suggested neither. A society that needs private citizens to be wandering around with guns is what I have a problem with. Still, I don't live there and don't want to. I wouldn't particularly want to live Zimmerman's life now either - his family has already said he fears for his life, which is obviously unacceptable.

 

What I really don't understand is why he ignored the police warnings to stay in his car and let them deal with it.

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Obama said 'if I had a son, he would look like Trayvan' (sp?)

What the flip was that all about? With such comments wasn't the pressure on to find him guilty?

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Obama said 'if I had a son, he would look like Trayvan' (sp?)

What the flip was that all about? With such comments wasn't the pressure on to find him guilty?

Talking to an American friend, and apparently it was big news over there that one of the major tv networks in the states had broadcast a 'doctored' tape of the original '999' call to Zimmermans detriment whilst another claimed that a video taken at Zimmermans arrest showed no injuries whilst it clearly did.  There is also a fuss that the most widely used media photo of Martin was several years old and showed him as a young boy, rather than as a 17-year-old, 6' tall young man.  No matter which side you come down on, some of the media coverage about this case stinks.

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Talking to an American friend, and apparently it was big news over there that one of the major tv networks in the states had broadcast a 'doctored' tape of the original '999' call to Zimmermans detriment whilst another claimed that a video taken at Zimmermans arrest showed no injuries whilst it clearly did.  There is also a fuss that the most widely used media photo of Martin was several years old and showed him as a young boy, rather than as a 17-year-old, 6' tall young man.  No matter which side you come down on, some of the media coverage about this case stinks.

Absolutely right, the media in the US sucks, somes "news" channels are mouthpieces for the democrats and some are mouth pieces for the republicans. also the way they turn these court cases into circuses is outrageous, with 24/7 over the top coverage, interviews with the lawyers, members of the families and friends etc.

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What I really don't understand is why he ignored the police warnings to stay in his car and let them deal with it.

He spoke to a telephone operator not a policeman.

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He spoke to a telephone operator not a policeman.

 

True, and of course the 911 operators can only advise, not instruct, due to worries about liability. He still chose to ignore it, and the regular "standing orders" of neighbourhood watches, which is to avoid confrontation, which is the official police advice.

 

So many things conspired to create the moment Martin was shot, of which race is one of the least, but all of which should cause America to examine itself. However, they've already canned gun control and they won't stop the march of gated communities and armed private security.

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