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keighley

The advantages of DR to Championship clubs in revue

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Other clubs using DR doesn't really bother me. I've said from its introduction that there'd be no significant effect on the league table and I've seen nothing to change my mind.

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Other clubs using DR doesn't really bother me. I've said from its introduction that there'd be no significant effect on the league table and I've seen nothing to change my mind.

True it hasn't effected the top end of the table. But it will/is effecting the relegation battle. Its all about who as the best DR players available to play for them when they play the teams around them. The DR system will decide who stays up and who doesn't at the end of the season.

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Sigh, how about we just stick to the facts and what we now HAS happened, rather than what MIGHT happen eh. You really are desperate to show everything DR in a bad light, know matter how pathetic you look.

 

Really. Parksider has commented on Hunslet's current plight in a relegation spot being due, in part, to Leeds recalling players from Hunslet as the Rhinos injury list worsened.

 

I think it is highly possible of not probable that the same situation might arise between Town and Widnes.

 

Just because you get all melodramatic e.g. " Sigh" and start throwing words like ' pathetic" at me doesn't change the fact that the outcome I have suggested is a likely possibility.

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 Is that your only measure of success? Someone's always got to finish towards the bottom of the table.

 

Maybe those clubs there this year feel they're in a better overall place than they would have been without DR.

 

Maybe they think that they will be more sustainable in the long term as a result of DR. They must have their reasons, as it is optional.

 

 

Hunslet won CC! and then stayed up without DR. With it they seem about to be relegated. The exact same thing seems to be taking place at Swinton. Keighley are doing much better since abandoning DR than they were doing with it.

 

These clubs all are or were not in a better place because of DR. All the independents with the exception of Barrow are doing extremely well. Whatever reasons they had for entering these DR arrangements, I think they have not been as successful or positive as they might have wished for.

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Looking at the league tables over recent years, neither Hunslet or Swinton appear to have finished any higher than the bottom 3 of the top semi-pro division in recent years, so it seems bottom two doesn't look unreasonable for them. To suggest that their lowly position is due to DR seems a touch harsh. They may feel they would have been even worse off without DR.

 

I don't think DR has turned Swinton & Hunslet from top notch semi-pro clubs into strugglers. I think there might be a few other factors in their current plight!

 

Both won CC in a canter and then survived in the Championship. Any reasonable person, me included, would have expected them to be much better and pushing for the payoffs and making them comfortably with the addition of numerous SL standard players to their rosters, even if hey were juniors they should have provided a major boost to the playing fortunes of the two clubs.This has not proved to be the case. Why is it harsh to suggest that the lowly positon is due to the DR players. there seems to be no other explanation.

 

it seems that the DR experiment has been a plus to the SL half of the partnership and a negative to the fortunes of the lower tier team.

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I don't know, but Swinton & Hunslet seem to think it has been beneficial to them. They are surely best placed to judge. If they think it has been beneficial to them, then I'd suggest they know more about what those benefits have been, than people outside the club, who I suspect have no idea what the detail of the DR has been.

 

If Hunslet & Leeds both say the DR has been of benefit, then I'd be more inclined to think that it has been of benefit to Leeds & Hunslet, than not.

 

It's definitely been a benefit to Leeds saving them from the costs of running a reserve team and having a place to play players surplus to requirements and a place to rehabilitate and wean back injured first teamers.

 

For Hunslet, it's leading to the league of death and if relegation is such a good thing then what has the debate been about for these many years.

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The players who came in were far better than those we could afford as an independant club. early doors they helped the club to put some wins on the board. After injuries have occured at Leeds and less players are available so our performances have slipped. I'd conclude that without DR we would be lower in the league points tally than we are now. i.e. adrift and rock bottom.

In simple terms DR has made us better off but if we do drop I hope it won't be argued that DR has failed and if only we had sought our own players (when no great quality is available)and signed them up (when there's no money to do so) we would have been OK.

 

AS opposed to adrift and next to bottom.. Not so much of a massive benefit from DR there then. I remember you getting quite giddy about your results and league position early doors. I don't think you were bigging up the positives of relegation as one of the benefits to be derived from the massive influx of top  level DR players at that point. 

 

I said that these arrangements were a one way street and that all the advantages were in favour of the SL team and that the minute the SL team needed to prop their first team up the lower tier team would be thrown to the wolves without a second thought and so it has proved to be.

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What I find particularly embarrassing for the game is players being signed by Championship clubs the being loaned or even sold by a "totally unconnected" club.

Surely there's some element of fraud here - maybe the police should be involved.

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I said that these arrangements were a one way street and that all the advantages were in favour of the SL team and that the minute the SL team needed to prop their first team up the lower tier team would be thrown to the wolves without a second thought and so it has proved to be.

 

The championship beggars could not be choosers though. At least the SL clubs have saved a lot of money in terms of their player development system, important when SL is £8M a year in the red.

 

The skint championship clubs have also saved money not having to pay money to as many semi pros. The CC fans have seen some quality players at their games, both important as CC clubs are struggling for money and interest in their games.

 

the alternative to DR would have cost the game hundreds of thousands of pounds it can ill afford and reduced the quality of failing CC clubs further, so it may have been unpalletable to many but it's ben a good thing in the circumstances. Of course we want all clubs to be independant but the game is struggling and has needed this crutch. That's why they all agreed to it.

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Care to expand on that Griff ?

Posted tongue in cheek - but I'm sure we all recall the garbled transfer news from Swinnington earlier this season.

If a player is genuinely registered for Club A, I expect Club A to be paying his wages, not Club B. Similarly, I don't expect Club B to be announcing his transfer to Club C. Nor do I think that's too much to ask.

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I don't know, but Swinton & Hunslet seem to think it has been beneficial to them. They are surely best placed to judge. If they think it has been beneficial to them, then I'd suggest they know more about what those benefits have been, than people outside the club, who I suspect have no idea what the detail of the DR has been.

 

If Hunslet & Leeds both say the DR has been of benefit, then I'd be more inclined to think that it has been of benefit to Leeds & Hunslet, than not.

You put up a good argument. But the fact remains that the two clubs who have used DR the most are planted firmly at the foot of the table. Maybe if there'd been no DR and they'd signed their own players, those players might have had a better team ethic and the team might have won more games. Who knows ?

Bottom is bottom - whether adrift or a close run thing.

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I said that these arrangements were a one way street and that all the advantages were in favour of the SL team and that the minute the SL team needed to prop their first team up the lower tier team would be thrown to the wolves without a second thought and so it has proved to be.

 

It hasn't at York and Hull.

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It hasn't at York and Hull.

Or workington.

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Really. Parksider has commented on Hunslet's current plight in a relegation spot being due, in part, to Leeds recalling players from Hunslet as the Rhinos injury list worsened.

I think it is highly possible of not probable that the same situation might arise between Town and Widnes.

Just because you get all melodramatic e.g. " Sigh" and start throwing words like ' pathetic" at me doesn't change the fact that the outcome I have suggested is a likely possibility.

Of course it may arise, though that does not make it highly possible just because it's happened at one club, if anything the fact it's only one pairing out of 10 (I think) proves exactly the opposite. And I find it quite ironic that you throw around the word melodramatic considering your histrionics and incredible pessimism in this thread.

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It hasn't at York and Hull.

 

Maybe Hull havn't had an injury crisis yet ? If York made their playoff final and it was played as a double header with the Grand Final ( as it used to be ) and Hull were in the latter game and had five first teamers out  injured and York had the needed replacements on DR playing for them, I would bet a year's salary that these players would be recalled to FC and York would have to soldier on regardless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The championship beggars could not be choosers though. At least the SL clubs have saved a lot of money in terms of their player development system, important when SL is £8M a year in the red.

 

The skint championship clubs have also saved money not having to pay money to as many semi pros. The CC fans have seen some quality players at their games, both important as CC clubs are struggling for money and interest in their games.

 

the alternative to DR would have cost the game hundreds of thousands of pounds it can ill afford and reduced the quality of failing CC clubs further, so it may have been unpalletable to many but it's ben a good thing in the circumstances. Of course we want all clubs to be independant but the game is struggling and has needed this crutch. That's why they all agreed to it.

 

Your first paragraph hits the nail on the head. it's been a benefit to SL clubs.

 

The championship clubs on DR have not seen the increase in revenues promised from this SL largesse in terms of bums on seats and pounds in the till

 

The success of the independent clubs would seem to suggest that your last paragraph is without much foundation. Crusaders, for instance, top their league, draw well and have just today won a cup and the cash that goes with it. How is this construed to be "reducing the quality of championship clubs further"?. The fact that they all agreed to it suggest comparisons with headless chickens of lemmings. The proof of this is the probable relegation of Swinton and Hunslet, the slippage of Batley, the failure of Rochdale and the less then expected performances from the Skolars. really positive benefits from DR in that little lot.

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Of course it may arise, though that does not make it highly possible just because it's happened at one club, if anything the fact it's only one pairing out of 10 (I think) proves exactly the opposite. And I find it quite ironic that you throw around the word melodramatic considering your histrionics and incredible pessimism in this thread.

 

Only one out of ten. Did you also see the post about the Rochdale DR and the recall of the St Helens players. Have you seen the league position of Swinton. Did you see that a bunch of poor non DR players from the Crusaders thrashed the Skolars/Broncos tandem today in a cup final no less.

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Your first paragraph hits the nail on the head. it's been a benefit to SL clubs.The championship clubs on DR have not seen the increase in revenues promised from this SL largesse in terms of bums on seats and pounds in the till

 

The success of the independent clubs would seem to suggest that your last paragraph is without much foundation. Crusaders, for instance, top their league, draw well and have just today won a cup and the cash that goes with it. How is this construed to be "reducing the quality of championship clubs further"?. The fact that they all agreed to it suggest comparisons with headless chickens of lemmings. The proof of this is the probable relegation of Swinton and Hunslet, the slippage of Batley, the failure of Rochdale and the less then expected performances from the Skolars. really positive benefits from DR in that little lot.

 

How well CC clubs do is dependent on how much money they have. All DR does is reduce the financial burden on the playing bill.

 

However you don't know how much a club had in their playing budget to start with. Sheffield and Crusaders have twice the crowds Hunslet and Swinton have for a start. How much their directors also put in and how much revenue they get from local sponsors is again something we do not know. At Hunslet we have no "directors", just fans running it.

 

For all I know (the likes of Griff and Derwent will know) Crusaders and Sheffield pay full salary cap, whilst Hunslet and Swinton may well not be able to do this and only pay half the money. Having access to DR players gives them some chance as we saw when we had the Keinhorsts and Singletons playing for us.

 

I do know that without these DR lads we may now have been on the bottom of CC with no points. We may finish the season outside the relegation zone (putting aside the proposed changes) and if we did I'd say that picking up those early wins could well have saved us. Your argument is flawed because you assume if we hadn't gone for DR we'd have done better because Crusaders and Sheffield don't do DR and have done well.

 

But you forget they probably have the money to pay the better players. Most of the Crusaders lads have come down from Lancashire. If Swinton could have offered them more they would be there wouldn't they?

 

What's your view DKW?

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Can't argue with any of that really, the only thing I will say is we may need to wait until next season before all clubs using it can get best from dr, learn from the mistakes and good practice from all clubs. This season being the first there was always going to be failures and successes. As for this crusaders argument, I don't know the relevance. We have beaten teams with more dr than us, we have beaten teams with less dr than us.

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Maybe Hull havn't had an injury crisis yet ? If York made their playoff final and it was played as a double header with the Grand Final ( as it used to be ) and Hull were in the latter game and had five first teamers out  injured and York had the needed replacements on DR playing for them, I would bet a year's salary that these players would be recalled to FC and York would have to soldier on regardless.

 

If my Auntie had testicles, she would be my Uncle.

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If my Auntie had testicles, she would be my Uncle.

 

Oh very droll. I see York slipped to 3rd from bottom today getting right royally stuffed at home by Haven. What happened, did Hull recall all their DR players?. The only teams worse are Leeds A and Warrington A. Regardless of your aunties testicles, when it comes to a choice between the priorities of Hull and York, York will be the loser every time. DR is there to benefit the SL team, in this case Hull, and not the championship team.

 

York need to wean themselves away from this slavish adherence to the dictates of Hull and start building for what could be a bright future when the new stadium us built.

 

What is the state of play on that as a matter of interest?

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I understand that the SL clubs are going to re-instate their Under 23's next season so I think this season will be the end of the DR system as we now know it. I imagine that Championship clubs will be looking for players on loan next season.

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Oh very droll. I see York slipped to 3rd from bottom today getting right royally stuffed at home by Haven. What happened, did Hull recall all their DR players?. The only teams worse are Leeds A and Warrington A. Regardless of your aunties testicles, when it comes to a choice between the priorities of Hull and York, York will be the loser every time. DR is there to benefit the SL team, in this case Hull, and not the championship team.

 

York need to wean themselves away from this slavish adherence to the dictates of Hull and start building for what could be a bright future when the new stadium us built.

 

What is the state of play on that as a matter of interest?

 

York finished 12th of 12 last season This year, they're 12th of 14. Some improvement thanks to DR.......

 

Also it's funny that arguably their best performance of the league season was with a team containing no DR players.

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