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Adelaide Tiger

Mid Season Tour for England?

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Just read that Luke Dorn's article about the potential opportunity for England to go on a 3 week tour to the southern hemisphere during SoO time.

Seems a suggestion worth considering. Especially if the NRL opt to stage SoO on 3 consecutive weekends and halt playing league games during that time This would open up a window of opportunity for England to play 3 'tests'. If this was done bi-annually one-off tests could be for example against PNG, NZ and Fiji in year 1 then play Samoa, Tonga and Cook Islands in year 3 and so on.

The positives:

1. The players get the opportunity to travel and represent England

2. We create meaningful test matches to replace the Exiles game

3. Acts as a team bonding trip giving the coach 3 solid weeks with the team

4. Lets English players in the NRL take part

5. Give pacific countries the opportunity to play against england at home to increase their profile

6. The tour is an opportunity for players to push their claims for end of season tournaments

But no doubt members on here will cry out 'what about the cost' and 'how will it affect our seaon'

Cost - i'm not a travel agent but would 100k cover it? The travel costs will be reduced with the NRL contingent already over there. Aren't there hotels in those places that do Groupon vouchers?

How would it affect SL? This is the issue. What price are we prepared to pay to give the national team every opportunity to thrive. I am sure we could be creative with this.

What do peope think?

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nope...never going to happen...and im on about origin being played over 3 weekends...

the england thing is just as ridiculous

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nope...never going to happen...and im on about origin being played over 3 weekends...

the england thing is just as ridiculous

 

The Origin thing comes up every year but soon gets forgotten about.

 

I'd agree with you on the idea of England touring mid season.

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The origin issue does come up every year but change may be forthcoming.

Don't know if you get the Aussie RL programs such as Sterlo, matty Johns or RL 360 but all have acknowledged that the ARU have been very astute in playing the British Lions v Australia games on consecutive weekends to build up the anticipation of the decider and that the NRL decision makers should consider discussing possible changes.

If they do change the SoO format why is the proposal by Luke Dorn ridiculous? Haven't you heard of aeroplanes?

How would you improve the gelling of the england team especially when probably half the squad may be playing in the NRL in 2/3 years time and sat twiddling their thumbs if SoO is played on consecutive week?

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I really like the idea of England (GB even) touring mid-season.  If there was some way of rigging it so the tour took place after the initial 2x12 section but before the 3x8 bit it would provide a natural pause during the season before the business end.

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I think this one has legs, there seems to be general dismay down under as to the effect SoO is having on the nrl games (and attendances) either side of them. It'd be fantastic to have them played over a 3 week period with it being an international fixture window for everyone else. England v New Zealand,PNG v Fiji,Samoa v Tonga,Wales v France etc etc. As pointed out by Martin Sadler the other week a 3 game series every year against NZ would do wonders for our game and regular international competition would do wonders for everyone elses.

A possible fly in the ointment is if they press on with the restructuring option that sees our SL clubs play a ridiculous 30 games before the playoffs begin. If the shortsighted amongst our leaders go down that route then you can forget crowbarring another 3 games in for our elite players.

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Couple it with a NZ tour over here in the alternate years and I'll be happy

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I really like the idea of England (GB even) touring mid-season.  If there was some way of rigging it so the tour took place after the initial 2x12 section but before the 3x8 bit it would provide a natural pause during the season before the business end.

Could you imagine if Super League, The RLIF and The NRL could all get together and discuss how options like this could grow the whole professional game.

On the whole I like the idea of these tours suggested for England if this was to happen

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Why not alternate it every year so that one year England comes to play here and then he second year at home. Having France play three mid year tests would be great too. Having New Zealand, France, Samoa, Fiji, tonga, Papua New Guinea, England and Cook Islands playing tests against each other on a yearly basis would be great.

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I don't see an issue with touring mid-season, other sports do it, and whilst we are not other sports, they all have far more successful international games because they do things like this.

 

The reality is that we have a blank canvas at any stage, we can pretty much do whatever we want.

 

We can shuffle our season to start and finish when we want, we can create gaps for tours, or we can simply allow larger squads which mean that clubs have to cope without 5 or 6 players for a month.

 

If people wanted a more credible and regular international game, we could have it.

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I created a post a few weeks ago suggesting this, that a global international window would work wonders for the international game. It would also open availability of heritage players for Italy and the Celtic nations, strengthening their teams and as a result the international program, if players like James Mcmanus and Peter Wallace are available year round for Scotland then this can only be a massive bonus for the international game,

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I suggested also for the same reason, this could do with happening for the development of teh international game

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100% like this idea and i'd be booking my plane tickets for a SOO and GBvNZ test match double. I think it does have legs as the NRL club crowds are suffering a bit as Origin becomes an ever bigger event.

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I'm also 100% behind this idea and thought Luke Dorn's article was very interesting. I think the main issues against it are (1) NRL clubs are actually trying to reduce the amount of games for their players so may not be happy for them to be released for international matches (2) Can we find a gap in the calender to suit both competition ESL/NRL (3) Money.

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I don't see an issue with touring mid-season, other sports do it, and whilst we are not other sports, they all have far more successful international games because they do things like this.

 

The reality is that we have a blank canvas at any stage, we can pretty much do whatever we want.

 

We can shuffle our season to start and finish when we want, we can create gaps for tours, or we can simply allow larger squads which mean that clubs have to cope without 5 or 6 players for a month.

 

If people wanted a more credible and regular international game, we could have it.

 

But would the SL clubs want it? I'd like to see as many Internationals played as possible, but if you consider that the SL clubs are looking at all clubs playing possibly a 30 week league season, then play offs and Cup matches on top of it, to organise a mid season tour clubs would see at least another 3 weeks being inserted into the calendar, or the clubs would have to agree to release players.

 

The first option of expanding the season even further is unlikely, as thrown in a WCC, end of season internationals or a World Cup, and you'd have players barely getting a break. As for releasing players, well the reason for the disquiet down under over Origin is the effect it has on NRL matches. Too many games are disrupted as the star players are missing. They have the squads to cope, but supporters and the TV viewers want to see the big name players. Crowds are down as are viewing figures. Can you imagine what SL clubs would say if they had to play 3 or more weeks without their international players?

 

Shorten the league season and you'd be able to do this sort of thing, and again I'd agree whole heartedly that it's exactly the sort of thing we should be doing. But even now in a World Cup year, the RFL and the clubs are busily concocting new formulas for how to reorganise the leagues, and not one of them mentions playing less matches.

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I don't see an issue with touring mid-season, other sports do it, and whilst we are not other sports, they all have far more successful international games because they do things like this.

Unless I'm mistaken I think you've got this wrong - English cricket and RU host tours mid-season, but do not actually tour themselves. Any tours tend to take place during the tourists' respective off-seasons. This is a problem with having northern and southern hemisphere RL seasons that run concurrently.

 

I would have thought some expanded European competition would be feasible mid-season, but wouldn't be sure about the logistics/feasibility of a 3-week tour across the globe at this stage of the year.

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if the will is there then it's perfectly possible to have an international slap bang in the middle of the season. Is there the will though? I think most of us can see it'd be good for the game as a whole but unfortunately that's not how things are done.

Fingers crossed that the Aussies do suspend their season for a condensed SoO and that simultaneously the SL/RFL dont go nuts and opt to play 30+ games per season. If these two wishes come off then you never know....

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Unless I'm mistaken I think you've got this wrong - English cricket and RU host tours mid-season, but do not actually tour themselves. Any tours tend to take place during the tourists' respective off-seasons. This is a problem with having northern and southern hemisphere RL seasons that run concurrently.

 

I would have thought some expanded European competition would be feasible mid-season, but wouldn't be sure about the logistics/feasibility of a 3-week tour across the globe at this stage of the year.

Yes - you are quite right. What I was referring to though was the fact that International campaigns take place during club seasons often meaning that a club will have players unavailable for weeks and weeks. A top RU player in the Aviva Premiership may miss 8 weeks if they get picked for all 6N games and Autumn internationals. Can you imagine the uproar of that happened in RL? In Cricket some counties hardly see their players.

 

Whilst I wouldn't want us to go completely OTT, I do think it is possible to go away for 5-6 weeks in April/May and have the players back for the key stages of the season.

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But would the SL clubs want it? I'd like to see as many Internationals played as possible, but if you consider that the SL clubs are looking at all clubs playing possibly a 30 week league season, then play offs and Cup matches on top of it, to organise a mid season tour clubs would see at least another 3 weeks being inserted into the calendar, or the clubs would have to agree to release players.

 

The first option of expanding the season even further is unlikely, as thrown in a WCC, end of season internationals or a World Cup, and you'd have players barely getting a break. As for releasing players, well the reason for the disquiet down under over Origin is the effect it has on NRL matches. Too many games are disrupted as the star players are missing. They have the squads to cope, but supporters and the TV viewers want to see the big name players. Crowds are down as are viewing figures. Can you imagine what SL clubs would say if they had to play 3 or more weeks without their international players?

 

Shorten the league season and you'd be able to do this sort of thing, and again I'd agree whole heartedly that it's exactly the sort of thing we should be doing. But even now in a World Cup year, the RFL and the clubs are busily concocting new formulas for how to reorganise the leagues, and not one of them mentions playing less matches.

No, they won;t want it - my point refers to the fact that it is internal influences which stop this kind of thing happening. 

 

I'm regularly baffled by the lack of credibility for the RL International game.

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Yes - you are quite right. What I was referring to though was the fact that International campaigns take place during club seasons often meaning that a club will have players unavailable for weeks and weeks. A top RU player in the Aviva Premiership may miss 8 weeks if they get picked for all 6N games and Autumn internationals. Can you imagine the uproar of that happened in RL? In Cricket some counties hardly see their players.

 

Whilst I wouldn't want us to go completely OTT, I do think it is possible to go away for 5-6 weeks in April/May and have the players back for the key stages of the season.

Ah - apologies for misunderstanding. Yes I agree that it would be nice if clubs could cope without some players for a few weeks. Unfortunately I also agree with your later point about clubs not likely to agree to it :(

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But would the SL clubs want it? I'd like to see as many Internationals played as possible, but if you consider that the SL clubs are looking at all clubs playing possibly a 30 week league season, then play offs and Cup matches on top of it, to organise a mid season tour clubs would see at least another 3 weeks being inserted into the calendar, or the clubs would have to agree to release players.

 

Here lies another issue with the proposed league structures currently in debate. It looks likely that more games will take place between the club sides increasing the length of the season and removing the potential for other concepts to be implemented. Disappointing from the clubs and RFL.

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Here lies another issue with the proposed league structures currently in debate. It looks likely that more games will take place between the club sides increasing the length of the season and removing the potential for other concepts to be implemented. Disappointing from the clubs and RFL.

 

But looking at it from the clubs point of view, it's the club competitions that make the money. The big money deal with Sky is for SL. If the International game brought more money into the game, and the RFL were able to hand out more money to the clubs, it would gain more credibility with the clubs (to follow on from Dave's earlier point). And as we know, it's the clubs that hold the real power here and down under. The problem is that under the current set up, the international game isn't in a position to bring in significant amounts of money to change that view.

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But looking at it from the clubs point of view, it's the club competitions that make the money. The big money deal with Sky is for SL. If the International game brought more money into the game, and the RFL were able to hand out more money to the clubs, it would gain more credibility with the clubs (to follow on from Dave's earlier point). And as we know, it's the clubs that hold the real power here and down under. The problem is that under the current set up, the international game isn't in a position to bring in significant amounts of money to change that view.

 

It's one of the reasons why the RLWC is so important this year. The clubs short-term thinking and lack of wider awareness outside of their own communities is one of the reasons why the commerical appeal of the game is so poor. If we can afford to hand out £2m each year to the Championship clubs in the new proposed structure, we can afford to start looking at the middle to long terms effects we want to achieve in order to improve the whole game.

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Ah - apologies for misunderstanding. Yes I agree that it would be nice if clubs could cope without some players for a few weeks. Unfortunately I also agree with your later point about clubs not likely to agree to it :(

i made my point poorly and you clarified my point about tours - i actually thought some tours did happen in season, i may have been getting mixed up with the ruwc - from memory the season continues.

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Here lies another issue with the proposed league structures currently in debate. It looks likely that more games will take place between the club sides increasing the length of the season and removing the potential for other concepts to be implemented. Disappointing from the clubs and RFL.

Just done a quick calculation, and the maximum number of games will likely be the same as they play currently, regardless of which option they end up going with. Just a shame there isn't the scope for one or two extra blank weekends to fit in some international games.

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