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Gregory

Broncos

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Barry Hearne who i'm sure could drum up some serious publicity

 

 

Agreed.. but i think for Hearn to be involved he'd have to own the club outright. His ego wouldn't allow anything else.

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Just a few thoughts...

When will the Broncos be considered a heartland team and be on a par with everybody else.?

 

I suppose when London is considered part of the rugby league heartlands. What is the population of London these days? 8 million? I think I worked out once that the combined population of the northern local authorities that make up the traditionally recognised RL heartlands - M62-land and Cumbria - was just over 5 million. So, how about London qualifies as a heartland areas when it has numerous pro clubs and a couple of dozen part-time clubs (with, say, half a dozen well-structured amateur clubs in each borough). Plus the associated strength in terms of coaching, volunteers, spectator support, local news coverage, etc.

Or, to aim a little lower, could we accept London as being a heartland when it reaches the strength in the south of France?

 

The amateur game in London is strong and well established?

Is it? I've always thought it was pretty fragile to be honest, especially when two of what were considered to be among its strongest clubs - South London Storm and West London Sharks(?) - collapsed.

The Bronocs have been around for the said 30 years. How long are they going to take to be self sustaining.?

That really depends on building the wider RL community in London that is able to sustain it.

 

 It is interesting that you lump the M62 heartlands together with the Cumbrian heartlands to better suit your argument. If you consider that Cumbria is far removed from the M62 and is a seperate heartland in it's own right, and then compare it with London, what do you get.

 

Three part time clubs as against London's two part time clubs and one SL club.

 

Both areas have a thriving amateur game. Despite the demise of South London and West London ( by the way havn't they both reformed as a joint entity), there are numerous amateur, junior and even some college teams and prison teams in London.

 

So I think that London is as much a heartland team as is Cumbria and no one is helping them out by special funding and preferential treatment.

 

How long is long enough. i think Brancos have been a relatively stable club for several years which is more than can be said for Whitehaven and Barrow both of whom have gone bankrupt recently.

 

Also both Haven and Town are post WW11 clubs. No hundred year history there.  it's time the Broncos stood on their own two feet. i wish them well but they have no more divine right to assistance than many of the other RL areas. What assitance are the two Welsh clubs receiving. isn't Wales considered crucial in the pursuit of RL expansion.

 

London are not so much more deserving just because it is the capital.

 

Oh and, by the way, London dwarfs Cumbria in terms of population.

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london were brought into super league to expand the game away from the heartlands, and were already a club in their own right. my gripe at the time was the created club paris sg. and please get the user name right it is VIKING WARRIOR..........

 

My apologies on the misquoting of your user name. Indeed Paris were another contrived disaster. 

 

However, the point was not why London were brought into SL but whether or not they received preferential treatment. They most surely did.

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Agreed.. but i think for Hearn to be involved he'd have to own the club outright. His ego wouldn't allow anything else.

Very true, I could just imagine him "doing a PDC" with Koukash and setting up his own Rugby League Organisation complete with no salary caps and brashy boxing style entrance music for the teams as they emerge from the tunnel :)

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 It is interesting that you lump the M62 heartlands together with the Cumbrian heartlands to better suit your argument. If you consider that Cumbria is far removed from the M62 and is a seperate heartland in it's own right, and then compare it with London, what do you get.

 

Three part time clubs as against London's two part time clubs and one SL club.

 

Both areas have a thriving amateur game. Despite the demise of South London and West London ( by the way havn't they both reformed as a joint entity), there are numerous amateur, junior and even some college teams and prison teams in London.

 

So I think that London is as much a heartland team as is Cumbria and no one is helping them out by special funding and preferential treatment.

 

How long is long enough. i think Brancos have been a relatively stable club for several years which is more than can be said for Whitehaven and Barrow both of whom have gone bankrupt recently.

 

Also both Haven and Town are post WW11 clubs. No hundred year history there.  it's time the Broncos stood on their own two feet. i wish them well but they have no more divine right to assistance than many of the other RL areas. What assitance are the two Welsh clubs receiving. isn't Wales considered crucial in the pursuit of RL expansion.

 

London are not so much more deserving just because it is the capital.

 

Oh and, by the way, London dwarfs Cumbria in terms of population.

Wow. 

 

London should be considered as much a part of the heartland as Cumbria? I don't even know where to start with that nonsense.

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Agreed.. but i think for Hearn to be involved he'd have to own the club outright. His ego wouldn't allow anything else.

Hearn would have to own rugby league like he owns snooker and darts.

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This will probably be the 20th time ive posted this.. RL has at no point been given a proper go in London. You cannot say Londoners don't want RL (one of Stevo's favourites), or that RL in London wont work, until theres been a proper attempt at selling the game to the public.

The majority of people in London know nothing about the Broncos. For them to succeed that has to change.

Spot on ELM. I've said several times also get it in north or north east London & leave it there & it will work. Orients ground would be a great location but not sure about the pitch size....

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as a visiting supporter the stoop is in my top 3 away grounds in the country, brilliant facilities and relatively easy to get to by road. plus they sell a great pint of greene king ipa

A great pint of GK? Deary me.

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A great pint of GK? Deary me.

As a Suffolk dweller I don't get the GKIPA thing - they are mad for it round here.....

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However, the point was not why London were brought into SL but whether or not they received preferential treatment. They most surely did.

Arguably nowhere near enough. Living costs in London are far higher than Hull for example. To even get towards a level playing field, London would need a much bigger share of SKY money and a far higher salary cap.

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I don't think that is the case at all. The sporting public aren't morons and are able to tell the difference between the two rugby codes. If Harlequins were playing Wigan or Leeds in the Grand Final or the Challenge Cup then the sporting public would be able to tell the difference. 

 

The Harlequins brand opened doors and attracted public attention in London. The key problem was Harlequins rugby league didn't make it worth while for Harlequins rugby union to keep the association going. The RFL and the Super League clubs should have made sure the London club were subsidised to ensure they were major players in the all of the competitions. 

 

On field success sells. Just look at the fortunes of Wigan Athletic or the soccer clubs in Wales. 

This is the ley point and London will never be competitive until they have a different salary cap to the rest of SL to compensate for the higher cost of living in London which prevents them signing the quality players available to all the other SL clubs. i.e. London weighting.

The broncos will never be able to compete with the Northern clubs due to the huge difference in the cost of living down here compared to Up North which prevents any quality players moving south and any top quality Southern hemisphere players choosing London over the North. This can only be changed by giving the broncos a fair London weighting to offset this extra cost burden which would certainly help with the aussie recruitment but with the new TV deal down there and the poor rate of exchange with the aussie $ few such players are becoming available now. Any quality Northern players who might be tempted are aslo put off by the need to uproot their family from family, friends schools etc. when they can stay in the same house up north and just drive to their new club each day.

It is not a level playing field in SL.

The Northern clubs will not agree to allow us the London weighting and with our chairmans limited funds he probably cant afford it anyway. We really need to be allowed an extra three aussies to offset the lack of quality players we cant recruit from Up North.

With these concessions if we don't suceed then the fans can allways say that its down to the club to recruit better and coach better. But with things as they are now its like we are playing with our hands tied behind our backs. There is no way of breaking out of this straightjacket under the present SL rules hence the despair of so many fans and the parochial attitude of northern fans who are happy to see RL in this country go backwards as long as their club is OK jack!

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The London weighting is a red herring as London have almost never spent the full salary cap anyway. You could raise to to ten billion pounds a week but it wouldn't make any difference as it wouldn't give them a penny more to spend.

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This is the ley point and London will never be competitive until they have a different salary cap to the rest of SL to compensate for the higher cost of living in London which prevents them signing the quality players available to all the other SL clubs. i.e. London weighting.

The broncos will never be able to compete with the Northern clubs due to the huge difference in the cost of living down here compared to Up North which prevents any quality players moving south and any top quality Southern hemisphere players choosing London over the North. This can only be changed by giving the broncos a fair London weighting to offset this extra cost burden which would certainly help with the aussie recruitment but with the new TV deal down there and the poor rate of exchange with the aussie $ few such players are becoming available now. Any quality Northern players who might be tempted are aslo put off by the need to uproot their family from family, friends schools etc. when they can stay in the same house up north and just drive to their new club each day.

It is not a level playing field in SL.

The Northern clubs will not agree to allow us the London weighting and with our chairmans limited funds he probably cant afford it anyway. We really need to be allowed an extra three aussies to offset the lack of quality players we cant recruit from Up North.

With these concessions if we don't suceed then the fans can allways say that its down to the club to recruit better and coach better. But with things as they are now its like we are playing with our hands tied behind our backs. There is no way of breaking out of this straightjacket under the present SL rules hence the despair of so many fans and the parochial attitude of northern fans who are happy to see RL in this country go backwards as long as their club is OK jack!

 

This is all a bit tired now. There has been a pro side in London for more than 30 years. They are the shambles they currently are because of mismanagement, not because they don't get extra privileges.

 

If they were well run and were constantly finishing 4th or 5th, there might be some value in the argument for London weighting, but if the mob they've been putting out for the last couple of years is the best they can get on a full salary cap, then give me the number of your owner, as I've got a cracking second hand car, I might be able to interest him in.

old-banger.jpg

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The London weighting is a red herring as London have almost never spent the full salary cap anyway. You could raise to to ten billion pounds a week but it wouldn't make any difference as it wouldn't give them a penny more to spend.

 

But isn't that the point, we might be spending up to the salary cap, but that is effectively c20% less than every other club because of the cost of living, etc. So we can spend the money but cant afford the top drawer players, be forced to play London boys through necessity and get found out.

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Hearn would have to own rugby league like he owns snooker and darts.

Just to be clear, he does not own golf, poker, bowling or ping pong but he owns events in all of those.

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But isn't that the point, we might be spending up to the salary cap, but that is effectively c20% less than every other club because of the cost of living, etc. So we can spend the money but cant afford the top drawer players, be forced to play London boys through necessity and get found out.

It is the point when you aren't spending the full cap. Broncos have never been a full cap side. This is the first year that Broncos announced that they would spend the full cap. Hard to believe that they are doing so this year if they weren't last year. Who did they sign?

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As a Suffolk dweller I don't get the GKIPA thing - they are mad for it round here.....

GK IPA is utter garbage. Especially the stuff sold at the Stoop. Its not even a ##### proper IPA (like Fullers Bengal Lancer, or Tribute)

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If they were well run and were constantly finishing 4th or 5th, there might be some value in the argument for London weighting, but if the mob they've been putting out for the last couple of years is the best they can get on a full salary cap, then give me the number of your owner, as I've got a cracking second hand car, I might be able to interest him in.

 

But that's the point that is being made - the players that London can get for the full salary cap won't be as good as the teams can get in the north, because you will have to pay >50% higher wages to get the equivalent standard player. So the argument is that London should have a higher proportion of SKY money and higher salary cap in order to get to a level playing field.

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But that's the point that is being made - the players that London can get for the full salary cap won't be as good as the teams can get in the north, because you will have to pay >50% higher wages to get the equivalent standard player. So the argument is that London should have a higher proportion of SKY money and higher salary cap in order to get to a level playing field.

 

Broncos can't be paying full salary cap for that bunch. If they are, they have been conned. That lot aren't worth half the full cap. Wakefield & Cas don't pay the full cap. Bulls only get half the central funding, so will be way off the full cap too, yet all of them can muster a much better squad than Broncos. You could give that lot £5m and they'd still be dire.

 

Poor management decisions. Simple as.

 

Rob Powell anyone?

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But that's the point that is being made - the players that London can get for the full salary cap won't be as good as the teams can get in the north, because you will have to pay >50% higher wages to get the equivalent standard player. So the argument is that London should have a higher proportion of SKY money and higher salary cap in order to get to a level playing field.

As currently happens with GWS and the Gold Coast Suns in the AFL and to a lesser extent with the Sydney Swans.

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This is the ley point and London will never be competitive until they have a different salary cap to the rest of SL to compensate for the higher cost of living in London which prevents them signing the quality players available to all the other SL clubs. i.e. London weighting.

The broncos will never be able to compete with the Northern clubs due to the huge difference in the cost of living down here compared to Up North which prevents any quality players moving south and any top quality Southern hemisphere players choosing London over the North. This can only be changed by giving the broncos a fair London weighting to offset this extra cost burden which would certainly help with the aussie recruitment but with the new TV deal down there and the poor rate of exchange with the aussie $ few such players are becoming available now. Any quality Northern players who might be tempted are aslo put off by the need to uproot their family from family, friends schools etc. when they can stay in the same house up north and just drive to their new club each day.

It is not a level playing field in SL.

The Northern clubs will not agree to allow us the London weighting and with our chairmans limited funds he probably cant afford it anyway. We really need to be allowed an extra three aussies to offset the lack of quality players we cant recruit from Up North.

With these concessions if we don't suceed then the fans can allways say that its down to the club to recruit better and coach better. But with things as they are now its like we are playing with our hands tied behind our backs. There is no way of breaking out of this straightjacket under the present SL rules hence the despair of so many fans and the parochial attitude of northern fans who are happy to see RL in this country go backwards as long as their club is OK jack!

 

Gary Purdham, an England international hailing from Cumbria spent many seasons at the Broncos ending up as club captain I believe.

 

The broncos were allowed to sign unlimited numbers of Aussies for years before it was stopped. They were an expansion club at one time, they can no longer claim that mantle after 30 years.

 

Why do the Broncos need to sign youngsters from the North ? Much has been made of the local London born talent in their team and the numerous talented players to be found in the London amateur scene, apparently so much that they need two DR clubs in Skolars and Hemel to accommodate them all. In fact they are exporting top class London born players e.g, Macarthy Scarsbrook at St Helens.

 

When signing players London should tout the numerous attractions to be found in the capital as a counter point to the extra living expenses. Would an Aussie/NZ player rather live in London or Castleford ?

 

This poor me whine from London is pathetic given some of the negatives of operating in some of the smaller Northern outposts.

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But that's the point that is being made - the players that London can get for the full salary cap won't be as good as the teams can get in the north, because you will have to pay >50% higher wages to get the equivalent standard player. So the argument is that London should have a higher proportion of SKY money and higher salary cap in order to get to a level playing field.

 

What a crock of manure. If you want to talk about level playing fields, ask the Gateshead officials from their Sl season what it was like having to compete with NO Sky money or Wakefield,on being promoted to SL having to survive their first season on NO SL money or Bradford this season having had their Sky money slashed in half.

 

Ask me about the many years London signed as many Aussies as they felt like whilst the rest of the league was restricted.

 

Ask any of the teams who were denied promotion to SL, specifically Keighley and Batley, so that London could be catapulted in from a non promotion spot with no ground and no spectators. Level playing field ,don't make me laugh.

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What a crock of manure. If you want to talk about level playing fields, ask the Gateshead officials from their Sl season what it was like having to compete with NO Sky money or Wakefield,on being promoted to SL having to survive their first season on NO SL money or Bradford this season having had their Sky money slashed in half.

Completely agree with all of your examples here - arguably none of them are fair. But providing other examples of unfair treatment doesn't justify a lack of London weighting.

 

Ask me about the many years London signed as many Aussies as they felt like whilst the rest of the league was restricted.

And they were more competitive then. Given that in recent years they have had to compete on probably around 50-70% of the money afforded to other clubs (relatively speaking, due to London living costs), you could argue that this dispensation could have continued (however, due to the exchange rate now they wouldn't be able to get the same quality of Aussie that they managed a few years back, so they issue is probably redundant).

 

Ask any of the teams who were denied promotion to SL, specifically Keighley and Batley, so that London could be catapulted in from a non promotion spot with no ground and no spectators. Level playing field ,don't make me laugh.

At the time I felt that Keighley had been dealt with very unfairly as the goal posts moved mid-season.

 

Unfortunately, I think that the artificial catapulting of London into SL, and the exemption from the overseas quota is probably as much has been done to give the pro game a leg up in London. To properly break in to the London market it would need millions more injecting into it.

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Broncos can't be paying full salary cap for that bunch. If they are, they have been conned. That lot aren't worth half the full cap.

But that's just it - if those players were based in the north then they probably would cost around half the cap. But the cost of living in London means that an equivalent standard player will cost alot more in London than they would in the north.

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Gary Purdham, an England international hailing from Cumbria spent many seasons at the Broncos ending up as club captain I believe.

 

The broncos were allowed to sign unlimited numbers of Aussies for years before it was stopped. They were an expansion club at one time, they can no longer claim that mantle after 30 years.

 

Why do the Broncos need to sign youngsters from the North ? Much has been made of the local London born talent in their team and the numerous talented players to be found in the London amateur scene, apparently so much that they need two DR clubs in Skolars and Hemel to accommodate them all. In fact they are exporting top class London born players e.g, Macarthy Scarsbrook at St Helens.

 

When signing players London should tout the numerous attractions to be found in the capital as a counter point to the extra living expenses. Would an Aussie/NZ player rather live in London or Castleford ?

 

This poor me whine from London is pathetic given some of the negatives of operating in some of the smaller Northern outposts.

Yeah. They're in the north for a start. Poor b*ggers!

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