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Duff Duff

20,000 + For Lancashire v Yorkshire?

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It's just said on 5Live "following the 15k that turned up at Headingley for the first fixture (that is no where near a sell out) not quite that many here at Old Trafford tonight".

Just to be clear, if a match for which every ticket available was sold does not make a sell out, then what does? If 86% of the stadium's maximum capacity (assuming that BBC figure is accurate even though it was reported as a sell out by both clubs and the rest of the media) is not "near a sell out" then how close does it have to be?

If Sky scheduled a rugby league match for 5:40pm on a weeknight would it sell out, or would everyone be up in arms about how they cannot get there from work in time?

To be clear, we will never get 20,000 to a Roses match, we struggle to get that many to watch test matches against New Zealand. You do not need to make up facts to prove that.

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Just to be clear, are you glad we no longer have Ashes series then?

Rugby League's first Roses match was in 1895.

Ashes tours are an anathema to player welfare, they stem from an era when travel to Aus took weeks and tours had to be made to pay. Ashes tests fell out of fashion because we were hopelessly uncompetitive, GB may not exist after 2015 anyway. The first roses match took place when teams west of the Pennines rarely played those from the dark side. Now we know what they are like without an additional fixture.

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Just to be clear, are you glad we no longer have Ashes series then?

Rugby League's first Roses match was in 1895.

Ashes tours are an anathema to player welfare, they stem from an era when travel to Aus took weeks and tours had to be made to pay. Ashes tests fell out of fashion because we were hopelessly uncompetitive, GB may not exist after 2015 anyway. The first roses match took place when teams west of the Pennines rarely played those from the dark side. Now we know what they are like without an additional fixture.

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Just to be clear, if a match for which every ticket available was sold does not make a sell out, then what does? If 86% of the stadium's maximum capacity (assuming that BBC figure is accurate even though it was reported as a sell out by both clubs and the rest of the media) is not "near a sell out" then how close does it have to be?

If Sky scheduled a rugby league match for 5:40pm on a weeknight would it sell out, or would everyone be up in arms about how they cannot get there from work in time?

To be clear, we will never get 20,000 to a Roses match, we struggle to get that many to watch test matches against New Zealand. You do not need to make up facts to prove that.

 

What facts I am making up? I am just sat here at my desk at work with Radio 5 on and typed in what the sports reporter said verbatim. The OP was taking about 20k+ for a Roses match - It is about 12k.

 

Also, a Wednesday night Roses RL match at Headingley pulled in over 10k in 2002. I fail to see what the problem or the point is?

 

roses2.png

 

roses3.png

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If Sky scheduled a rugby league match for 5:40pm on a weeknight would it sell out, or would everyone be up in arms about how they cannot get there from work in time?

 

So is this cricket match only being played over eighty minutes then? If it is then I don't know why they don't start a bit later.

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In cricket this is effectively a club fixture like Leeds v Wigan, not a quasi representative fixture as proposed in rl. It has history and the same resonance as a derby fixture in rl. There is nothing to extrapolate from our point of view. County of origin/ roses/ whatever is a dead duck. Exiles is heading the same way so we might actually get on with playing some proper internationals against other nations.

This! Lancs v Yorks in cricket is the equivalent of Wigan v Saints (or similar)

On the boat race point, I went to Cambridge and can barely muster myself to watch it most years.

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So is this cricket match only being played over eighty minutes then? If it is then I don't know why they don't start a bit later.

Just to be clear, weekday FLt20 matches on Sky start anywhere between 5:40 and 7:10.

But why they want to start some of them, including the Headingley sell out, as early as that so they will be done by quarter to 9 you will have to ask them. Makes no sense to me as it is just as bad for home viewers as those attending.

What facts I am making up?

If the reporter said "that is no where near a sell out" and not you then I apologise. But it seems a very strange aside for a reporter to have added.

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The only way to make a roses game competitive and intense and then attract, eventually, a good attendance is to have a huge sponsorship which is paid to the winning team's players and a cut to the winning teams clubs on a percentage per player from the club iinvolved in the game. Put a lot of cash on the line and the players will up the anti, put money in club coffers and they will release players.

 

In other words, it isn't going to happen. Forget it.

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The only way to make a roses game competitive and intense and then attract, eventually, a good attendance is to have a huge sponsorship which is paid to the winning team's players and a cut to the winning teams clubs on a percentage per player from the club iinvolved in the game. Put a lot of cash on the line and the players will up the anti, put money in club coffers and they will release players.

 

In other words, it isn't going to happen. Forget it.

 

You never know. Cadbury might be interested in sponsoring a "Roses" match.

 

Lion Bar sponsored GB back in the day!

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You never know. Cadbury might be interested in sponsoring a "Roses" match.

 

 

Ideally for them it would be played in the run up to Christmas when they are heading to maximise sales, not really ideal for the sports calendar, but I like your thinking.

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Ashes tours are an anathema to player welfare, they stem from an era when travel to Aus took weeks and tours had to be made to pay. Ashes tests fell out of fashion because we were hopelessly uncompetitive, GB may not exist after 2015 anyway. The first roses match took place when teams west of the Pennines rarely played those from the dark side. Now we know what they are like without an additional fixture.

 

Great Britain and Ireland - which seems to be what some people want - doesn't exist now!

And any GB(&I) side is hardly likely to be any more competitive than England for the foreseeable future - unless Ireland, Scotland and Wales are allowed to include their Aussie world cup 'ringers'. ;)

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I like Yorks vs Lancs but the thing is that it would be a de facto England selection match.

 

Cumbria, London and the rest of England would be unrepresented. I can't see the point in asking Lahndoners to play for either Lancs or Yorks especially if they have been at Broncos their entire career.

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Lancs V Yorks should/could be a great fixture.  Adopting the oft-misquoted line* from  Field of Dreams, "Build it and they will come." No they won't.  They never did in the past and they never will in the future.

 

* Actual words, "If you build it, he will come."

That's because we dabbled with it and never took it seriously or made playing in it essential to international selection.

Do it, do it right, do it big and create it as an event worth winning.

Ramp up the history, get team mates to talk passionately about their County and winning or more appropriately the other County and how you'd love to batter them.

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Well you could say the same about Origin in Australia, essentially that is parochial too but its appeal as a contest spreads far beyond NSW and Queensland.

I don't get why in Rugby League we have to look at things as being strict 'either/or' choices, such as should we have a county game or an Exiles/international game, when there's no insurmountable reason that we couldn't enjoy both. Same with the old GB or England debate. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Certain other sports manage to accomodate both with great success. Rugby League could too, if it wanted.

You're talking far too much sense, John. It won't go down well at all.

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Agreed. I am from Kent. I am going out of my way to watch the Roses cricket match tonight on TV and if there was a Rugby League equivalent I would do the same. Lancashire v Yorkshire means something and has context. It also the only feasible way of getting the best 26 English players to play against each other in a representative match.

20,000 people will be packed into the newly redeveloped Old Trafford baying for Yorkshire blood tonight. It is going to be a great event, both for crowd and the TV audience. The game at Headingley certainly was. Rugby League should take note.

John Drake is right. British Rugby League should be able to accommodate lots of different representative competitions like the NRL does. Yorkshire v Lancashire, England v The Exiles and GB v Australia.

The big problem is the small mindedness and the petty self interest of the clubs and in some cases the supporters too. The lets all boo Sam Tomkins brigade really do need to look at themselves.

 

Roses matches generally attract attention. Look at the encounter at Towton in 1461.  26000 killed!

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Shame they cancelled the cricket at the last minute.  I was looking forward to it.

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There needs to be done kind of goal to winning it though. Otherwise it's just a one off friendly and the fans just won't buy into it.

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Shame they cancelled the cricket at the last minute.  I was looking forward to it.

 

B)

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How on earth are the two comparable?

Yorks lancs cricket is a club game in this instance in a modified formif the game

What sort of attendances do they get when these two clubs play each other in the county championship?

How on earth can yorks v lancs rugby league be compared to state of origin? Queensland and New South Wales are de facto countries that are part of a federation/ commonwealth on top of which rugby league is a major sport in both of them

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I can't see the point in asking Lahndoners to play for either Lancs or Yorks especially if they have been at Broncos their entire career.

 

 

My solution to that would be to not allow them to play for Lancashire or Yorkshire.  Simple.

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Or a d-day match?

 

No.  That would alienate the Germans.  And who would all the people from neutral countries support?

 

Think it through man.   A D-Day match between England and France would be a parochial nonsense.

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No. That would alienate the Germans. And who would all the people from neutral countries support?

Think it through man. A D-Day match between England and France would be a parochial nonsense.

What about the Celts? Will somebody please think of the Celts!?

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How on earth are the two comparable?

Yorks lancs cricket is a club game in this instance in a modified formif the game

What sort of attendances do they get when these two clubs play each other in the county championship?

How on earth can yorks v lancs rugby league be compared to state of origin? Queensland and New South Wales are de facto countries that are part of a federation/ commonwealth on top of which rugby league is a major sport in both of them

Not sure what the County Championship has to do with it. The games are held during weekdays so not many people can go and watch.

2020 is the main spectator friendly version of the sport and is marketed as such.

Anyway 12,000 people turned up in the end to watch Yorkshire get hammered. Not pretty.

If British Rugby League wants proper representative fixtures then Yorkshire v Lancashire is the obvious vehicle to use. The other European national teams are too weak for meaningful internationals and whilst the Exiles concept has merit and should be retained as a one off fixture it should really be used as a warm up for Test against New Zealand and Australia.

If Super League was shut down for three Saturdays and performances in County matches was the main criteria for international selection then it would work.

As always the clubs will try to kill though. Self interest and villagism always seems to triumph.

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