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Duff Duff

20,000 + For Lancashire v Yorkshire?

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The outside world is about as interested as the inside world in a fixture that is incredibly one sides during the season.

Ask journalists how much easier it is to get column inches for internationals of any calibre, you'll find you are wrong.

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State of Origin is huge amongst rugby league fans.  It is of no interest to the casual sports fan.

 

To generate interest in Crawley in a game between Queensland and NSW or between Yorks and Lancs is very difficult.  To get an interest in England vs anyone is far simpler.  Also, NSW v Queensland covers most of Australia, whereas Yorks vs Lancs cover only a small part of Britain.

http://www.nswrl.com.au/default.aspx?s=article-display&id=26067

Says you're wrong

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So, just catching up on this, this cricket game between two clubs that we should be aiming to emulate got a lower crowd than when the likes of Wigan and Leeds play each other. Have I followed it right?

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No.  It says it is available to view in ninety countries.

 

We watched State of Origin in Denmark, with a couple of dozen people in a bar.  The interest for the World Cup matches will be far, far bigger.  That is because they will know the significance of an international match.

 

I find it bizarre that people would argue against such a thing.  Have you been out of rugby league areas?

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No.  It says it is available to view in ninety countries.

 

We watched State of Origin in Denmark, with a couple of dozen people in a bar.  The interest for the World Cup matches will be far, far bigger.  That is because they will know the significance of an international match.

 

I find it bizarre that people would argue against such a thing.  Have you been out of rugby league areas?

That is great in theory but unless England are playing New Zealand or Australia there aren't any international teams that are worth playing. Wales and France just aren't strong enough and won't be for the foreseeable future.

Sure a three test series against Australia or New Zealand or a Tri Nations will capture the public imagination but in the absence of that there are a lack of meaningful representative games.

As such Yorkshire v Lancashire is probably the best option available.

Of course there is always the argument that British Rugby League doesn't need a representative game but I would disagree with that.

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Following the sell out at Headingley and the likelihood of 20,000 + turning up for the return match at Old Trafford this evening do people think Rugby League could learn anything from cricket?

Take the hint that the Lancashire v Yorkshire rivalry works as a concept and appeals to the general sporting public?

This would bring an amazing atmosphere along with it, just look what its like at a leeds vs warrington match, then add all the other teams on top, the stadium would be packed

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This would bring an amazing atmosphere along with it, just look what its like at a leeds vs warrington match, then add all the other teams on top, the stadium would be packed

Yet never has been on the previous 24 occasions we've tried this, odd that

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That is great in theory but unless England are playing New Zealand or Australia there aren't any international teams that are worth playing. Wales and France just aren't strong enough and won't be for the foreseeable future.

Sure a three test series against Australia or New Zealand or a Tri Nations will capture the public imagination but in the absence of that there are a lack of meaningful representative games.

As such Yorkshire v Lancashire is probably the best option available.

Of course there is always the argument that British Rugby League doesn't need a representative game but I would disagree with that.

The French or Welsh may never be strong enough without regular games we need to do the right thing, hold our nerve if the first few scorelines aren't pretty and let the fixtures grow. Italy used to get thumped in the 6 nations, union stuck at it - the rewards are obvious

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The French or Welsh may never be strong enough without regular games we need to do the right thing, hold our nerve if the first few scorelines aren't pretty and let the fixtures grow. Italy used to get thumped in the 6 nations, union stuck at it - the rewards are obvious

Actually the reason why Italy and Argentina were upgraded to the annual international competitions in Rugby Union was because their performances demanded it. In the 1990s Italy beat all the Celtic countries and gave France and England a run for their money on a couple of occasions. Ironically most of that great team had retired by the time they have got into the Six Nations.

There is a role for playing Wales and France in warm up matches but they shouldn't be the main event, they just aren't good enough. Until they become competitive internationals against them just won't be attractive.

In terms of the international game three Test series against the Australian and New Zealanders every two years is the way forward. The current 4 Nations structure is flawed because The Big Three are only guaranteed 2 Tests against tough opposition.

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No.  It says it is available to view in ninety countries.

 

We watched State of Origin in Denmark, with a couple of dozen people in a bar.  The interest for the World Cup matches will be far, far bigger.  That is because they will know the significance of an international match.

 

I find it bizarre that people would argue against such a thing.  Have you been out of rugby league areas?

 

Where they expat Aussie's.

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Ah this old chestnut again.

Let's completely forget the damp squib of a series that we put on a decade ago.

Let's ignore the fact that we played this fixture 89 times over the course of a 100 years and only ever got 4 crowds over 15,000 with a highest ever of 18,000.

Let's pretend that we actually still have clubs in Lancashire.

Using a sport that uses counties for its main domestic competitions is obviously a poor argument. That 20,000 contains people that have grown up supporting both of those counties, there is a great deal of history and rivalry behind Lancashire and Yorkshire cricket. It makes as much sense as saying cricket should set up a match between Wigan cricket and St Helens cricket because they could potentially draw a 25,000 crowd.

Much is made of Lancashire CC being based in Liverpool and Manchester but again this is a historic thing, it is no different to a Super League club moving out of town but still representing those towns that they are originally from, Salford for instance. If cricket were starting up today they wouldn't place Lancashire CC in either of these two cities.

The worst argument is the idea that all the Aussies did different from us was to persist with SOO. As I pointed out, we've played it 89 times and prior to the first State of Origin the Aussies already had a historic series that was regularly played between Queensland and NSW. Whereas they had had 5 games with attendances over 50,000 and many more over 40,000 we had managed no better than 18,000. SOO didn't just come out of the blue like some would love to imagine.

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Good post MD.

Like I've said earlier, presuming that it is dropped this year, give it a decade and we'll be hearing about how we should bring back the Exiles concept. There'll be all the same excuses about how it wasn't marketed properly, about how it was dropped too quickly and that it was done half-heartedly.

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Like I've said earlier, presuming that it is dropped this year, give it a decade and we'll be hearing about how we should bring back the Exiles concept. There'll be all the same excuses about how it wasn't marketed properly, about how it was dropped too quickly and that it was done half-heartedly.

 

What is interesting is that England/GB v France actually has some history behind it and when competitive drew some large crowds. There is no doubt that England v France with a 50/50 chance England would lose - could draw the 15-20k some people on here are talking about. If that is the case, then building that match up towards 50/50 or even 80/20 (initially) is an absolute priority for the game in Europe.

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A competitive French team and Welsh team would draw crowds. Don't think anyone's arguing that. They aren't competitive though that's the problem!

I did think the Tri-Nations was a better concept than the 4N because it had more games. We can play the French and Welsh during the season. That's probably how we should be going about it.

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A competitive French team and Welsh team would draw crowds. Don't think anyone's arguing that. They aren't competitive though that's the problem!

I did think the Tri-Nations was a better concept than the 4N because it had more games. We can play the French and Welsh during the season. That's probably how we should be going about it.

Yes - tbh I miss the Tri Nations which had guaranteed 2 games against each of the Kiwis and Aussies. The best European clubs (France and Wales) could still play the Tri Nations team who doesn;t have a game that weekend.

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The French or Welsh may never be strong enough without regular games we need to do the right thing, hold our nerve if the first few scorelines aren't pretty and let the fixtures grow. Italy used to get thumped in the 6 nations, union stuck at it - the rewards are obvious

 

The difference being that although the Italians got spanked there was a meaningful competition going on at the same time - the Italian game was, and to some extent still is, a sideshow/'banana peel' game for the other nations. Add to that the fact that Italy get five games per year, at least.

 

It's not really the same as having Wales/France get spanked by England every year is it?

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Ah this old chestnut again.

Let's completely forget the damp squib of a series that we put on a decade ago.

Let's ignore the fact that we played this fixture 89 times over the course of a 100 years and only ever got 4 crowds over 15,000 with a highest ever of 18,000.

Let's pretend that we actually still have clubs in Lancashire.

Using a sport that uses counties for its main domestic competitions is obviously a poor argument. That 20,000 contains people that have grown up supporting both of those counties, there is a great deal of history and rivalry behind Lancashire and Yorkshire cricket. It makes as much sense as saying cricket should set up a match between Wigan cricket and St Helens cricket because they could potentially draw a 25,000 crowd.

Much is made of Lancashire CC being based in Liverpool and Manchester but again this is a historic thing, it is no different to a Super League club moving out of town but still representing those towns that they are originally from, Salford for instance. If cricket were starting up today they wouldn't place Lancashire CC in either of these two cities.

The worst argument is the idea that all the Aussies did different from us was to persist with SOO. As I pointed out, we've played it 89 times and prior to the first State of Origin the Aussies already had a historic series that was regularly played between Queensland and NSW. Whereas they had had 5 games with attendances over 50,000 and many more over 40,000 we had managed no better than 18,000. SOO didn't just come out of the blue like some would love to imagine.

You did forget that the Yorks v Lancs game's where normally played mid-week and this could have had a greater bearing on the attendance than the weather.

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You did forget that the Yorks v Lancs game's where normally played mid-week and this could have had a greater bearing on the attendance than the weather.

When are state of origin games played?

Even when county games were played at weekends attendances were abysmal

There always seems to be an excuse for people not to go to representative rugby league games

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When are state of origin games played?

Even when county games were played at weekends attendances were abysmal

There always seems to be an excuse for people not to go to representative rugby league games

I'm only pointing out that Yorks v Lancs games where mainly played mid-week.

 

I did go and watch the roses clashes.

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I'm only pointing out that Yorks v Lancs games where mainly played mid-week.

I did go and watch the roses clashes.

I wasn't pointing the finger at you

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What is interesting is that England/GB v France actually has some history behind it and when competitive drew some large crowds. There is no doubt that England v France with a 50/50 chance England would lose - could draw the 15-20k some people on here are talking about. If that is the case, then building that match up towards 50/50 or even 80/20 (initially) is an absolute priority for the game in Europe.

 

when competitive drew some large crowds.

 

Hmm, not user I can remember that and I've been around for far too long!!

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when competitive drew some large crowds.

Hmm, not user I can remember that and I've been around for far too long!!

I remember France beating Great Britain round about 1989?at headingley perhaps that fits the bill

Attendance about six thousand as I recall... Could be wrong

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I remember France beating Great Britain round about 1989?at headingley perhaps that fits the bill

Attendance about six thousand as I recall... Could be wrong

I think there is a difference between competitive and the odd match that finishes close or goes either way. That win was their first in 10.

I think the French relationship to us is the same as our relationship to Australia. They are more interested in it than we are and until it is truly competitive the interest from the bigger partner is small.

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Well if Roses matches could attract crowds of 15,000 plus then I definitely think they are worth perusing, unless of course people are happy to abandon meaningful representative games.

The aim really should be to get somewhere near the 20,000 and will heavy promotion and with no competition from club matches surrey that would be an attainable figure.

Even the half arsed effort they tried last time attracted reasonable crowds. With proper marketing, ticket pricing and dedicated weekends the games should work.

What is not to like getting about getting the best 34 English playing playing against each other.

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