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Duff Duff

20,000 + For Lancashire v Yorkshire?

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If it wasn't for that pesky lack of promotion and marketing they'd 'be been huge, huge I tell thee

True, I remember the huge national marketing campaigns we used to have in the early 1900's for all the other successful RL events.

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True, I remember the huge national marketing campaigns we used to have in the early 1900's for all the other successful RL events.

 

Very innovative use of the telegraph system.

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Very innovative use of the telegraph system.

It's a little known fact that the only reason the RFL changed the name from Northern Union is because of the difficulty in coming up with new Radio advertising jingles to rhyme with Union.

After you've took your weekly Holy Communion*, come and watch a game of Northern Union!

*I am aware that games used to be played on a Saturday.

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A county origin is still better than the exile game. Just because it wasn't as successful when previously tried it doesn't mean it won't be successful the next time.   Nothing worse in business when somebody new comes onto the board and suggests something, only for the die in wool old timers who have lost all drive to say...mmm tried that before and won't work again me laddie giving him a gentle pat of the head... always a sign to shift off the board that ole timer...

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A county origin is still better than the exile game. Just because it wasn't as successful when previously tried it doesn't mean it won't be successful the next time.   Nothing worse in business when somebody new comes onto the board and suggests something, only for the die in wool old timers who have lost all drive to say...mmm tried that before and won't work again me laddie giving him a gentle pat of the head... always a sign to shift off the board that ole timer...

It's not just 'old timers' who think it won't work.  I've not been a fan of the sport for many years but I can't see Lancs -v- Yorks working.  I don't have any animosity even of a sporting kind towards Yorkshire but if a Saints -v- Wigan match was proposed then I'd be up for that!

 

Besides, where exactly would the boundary for Lancashire be?  These days Wigan, Salford, Leigh and Oldham are in Greater Manchester, St Helens is in Merseyside (even though it doesn't exist except in the minds of Liverpudlians), Warrington and Widnes are in Cheshire and Barrow is in Cumbria.  I suppose Rochdale could provide the players!

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It's not just 'old timers' who think it won't work.  I've not been a fan of the sport for many years but I can't see Lancs -v- Yorks working.  I don't have any animosity even of a sporting kind towards Yorkshire but if a Saints -v- Wigan match was proposed then I'd be up for that!

 

Besides, where exactly would the boundary for Lancashire be?  These days Wigan, Salford, Leigh and Oldham are in Greater Manchester, St Helens is in Merseyside (even though it doesn't exist except in the minds of Liverpudlians), Warrington and Widnes are in Cheshire and Barrow is in Cumbria.  I suppose Rochdale could provide the players!

 

Rochdale is also in Greater Manchester! You're left with amateur clubs such as Accrington, Whitworth and whatever exists in Blackpool these days.

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Rochdale is also in Greater Manchester! You're left with amateur clubs such as Accrington, Whitworth and whatever exists in Blackpool these days.

Oh is it?  Ha!  I didn't know that. 

 

Does anything exist in Blackpool these days?

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A county origin is still better than the exile game. Just because it wasn't as successful when previously tried it doesn't mean it won't be successful the next time.   Nothing worse in business when somebody new comes onto the board and suggests something, only for the die in wool old timers who have lost all drive to say...mmm tried that before and won't work again me laddie giving him a gentle pat of the head... always a sign to shift off the board that ole timer...

 

Eienstein defined Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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Eienstein defined Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

Yep, but implementation can be different so that results differ although the concept remains intact..   

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It's not just 'old timers' who think it won't work.  I've not been a fan of the sport for many years but I can't see Lancs -v- Yorks working.  I don't have any animosity even of a sporting kind towards Yorkshire but if a Saints -v- Wigan match was proposed then I'd be up for that!

 

Besides, where exactly would the boundary for Lancashire be?  These days Wigan, Salford, Leigh and Oldham are in Greater Manchester, St Helens is in Merseyside (even though it doesn't exist except in the minds of Liverpudlians), Warrington and Widnes are in Cheshire and Barrow is in Cumbria.  I suppose Rochdale could provide the players!

 

Yep the county administration boundaries have all changed but no reason why couldn't use old historical boundaries from say 1895 ish....  or could be more inclusive and call it Lancashire & West v Yorkshire & East or Celts v England or even back to home nations... allowing celts or home country to include a nominated number of "exile" players (say 5 or 6) which over time reduces.

 

Anyway for me anything that has some locality aspect is better than the exile's fixture which most see just as a training game and find it difficult to have any real passion for.

 

Personally I'm hoping that the French continue to expand and eventually have a international team to provide competition to England. Maybe a forlorn hope... but again allow them and Wales to have a number of nominated "exiles" and then we may get a competitive x3 "country" competition.

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Yep the county administration boundaries have all changed but no reason why couldn't use old historical boundaries from say 1895 ish....  or could be more inclusive and call it Lancashire & West v Yorkshire & East or Celts v England or even back to home nations... allowing celts or home country to include a nominated number of "exile" players (say 5 or 6) which over time reduces.

 

Anyway for me anything that has some locality aspect is better than the exile's fixture which most see just as a training game and find it difficult to have any real passion for.

 

Personally I'm hoping that the French continue to expand and eventually have a international team to provide competition to England. Maybe a forlorn hope... but again allow them and Wales to have a number of nominated "exiles" and then we may get a competitive x3 "country" competition.

 

The failure of the Exiles concept is in no way a plus for the War of the Roses, if so we are just replacing one failure with another. 

 

The very real fact is that this concept has failed again and again, regardless of the time and attention given to it. Added to this is the fact that it faces bigger barriers than it did in the past, namely the moving of geographical boundaries. Some will refuse to accept the changing of the traditional barriers but for young people growing up today this is a reality. I can only talk from personal experience and growing up I heard very little about the fact that Widnes was part of Lancashire for hundreds of years. Cheshire is what appears on your address and organisations such as school and scouts were organised along Cheshire lines. That's not to say I felt any passion about being from Cheshire; your county is just an area of reference to most people that I know. The argument that we are 'technically' still in Lancashire is an irrelevance and unknown to most of the population. 

 

I feel that any attempt to build a Lancs vs Yorks would be hampered by this on the Lancashire side, especially long term. Any attempt to rebrand it as East vs West Pennines or anything similar is just too artificial to work. It's a shame because at one time the concept could have been a goer and could have been a real part of the RL calendar. At one time we had a roughly 50/50 geographical split with regional leagues and regional cups and in theory this could have created a great rivalry, but it didn't. Our chances of building such an event successfully nowadays are infinitely smaller as we don't have these regional identities to the same extent and it would feel artificial, much like it did in 2001. 

 

As for coming to the board late, well unfortunately that it something you ultimately have to live with and something we all had to live with at one point. 

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The failure of the Exiles concept is in no way a plus for the War of the Roses, if so we are just replacing one failure with another. 

etc, etc

I actually tend to agree with you but somewhere deep down I think locality adds a dimension to sporting competition but you are right it has to be real not imaginary.   Then it has to be based upon home nations and France, again as per suggestion with some advantage given to those not strong enough to give a more level playing field. 

 

I just think its imperative to have a strong international/representative game to provide the strategic impetus and exposure the game will always need until we achieve it.   I just think until then any amount of structuring and initiatives will only nibble away at the fundamental problems without achieving the strategic goals.

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