Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
League Express

RFL Chairman responds to criticism

132 posts in this topic

And if they had kept it all quiet???

It would've been preferable in my opinion. It's quite clear that Mr Wood is the 'architect' of these plans and is pretty determined to push them through. Who knows, history may even present him as a genius.

However, where he's erred is in trying to seek public approval for something that was always likely to be contentious. And, in doing so, he's allowed the news agenda to be diverted from the World Cup at such a critical time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using your chosen line of logic, should all political journalists toe the line and support the government's current 'austerity' measures, on the basis that 'talking it down isn't helpful?'

Personally, I'm glad we have journalists in life and in sport who are prepared to challenge and question rather than, as some of you are keen to advocate, a bunch of benign, RFL cheerleaders.

Just to be clear, if someone "challenges and questions" the government's austerity measures are they toe the opposition line and supporting it? And if someone "challenges and questions" opposition alternatives are they toeing the government line and supporting it?

That you think whenever anyone disagrees with the RFL they are being challenging and questioning yet those who agree with them on somethings are benign cheerleaders just exposes your own irrational prejudices.

Just because a journalist condemns something does not make them right, not precludes them pushing their own agendas.

Just because the RFL says something it does not make them wrong.

There is a big difference between challenging and questioning, and talking something down. To challenge requires refutation. To question requires listening to answers.

Constantly shouting "YOU ARE WRONG! YOU ARE WRONG!" is neither challenging nor questioning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For God sake. 

 

I'd rather have some insight and reflect on the potential benefits.

 

If Martyn has already made his mind up on it then I'm not interested and If I was Barwick I wouldn't have bothered with a reply. If someone with such "influence" can't hold his water long enough for the facts to get into the public domain then I'm equally not bothered.  Martyn's influence is measured by the number of papers he sells and I for one haven't bought it since Martyn took sides so early on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to be clear, if someone "challenges and questions" the government's austerity measures are they toe the opposition line and supporting it? And if someone "challenges and questions" opposition alternatives are they toeing the government line and supporting it?

That you think whenever anyone disagrees with the RFL they are being challenging and questioning yet those who agree with them on somethings are benign cheerleaders just exposes your own irrational prejudices.

Just because a journalist condemns something does not make them right, not precludes them pushing their own agendas.

Just because the RFL says something it does not make them wrong.

There is a big difference between challenging and questioning, and talking something down. To challenge requires refutation. To question requires listening to answers.

Constantly shouting "YOU ARE WRONG! YOU ARE WRONG!" is neither challenging nor questioning.

Silly post. What I'm saying is that journalists are duty bound to interpret the news honestly/in line with their publication's standpoint. These opinions will differ markedly on some issues (note the difference in coverage of equal marriage between the Mail and the Guardian), whereas very occasionally there is a consensus.

Do you really think all of the RL journalists get together and decide 'let's all oppose the RFL on this one'?

Has it not occurred to you that it may just be that, on this particular issue, the majority (although not all) of the press disagree with the RFL's stance; it doesn't mean they are being negative for the sake of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm caught between two stools here because I do find the majority of RL journalists to be horrendously negative, and it's been that way for a long time. But I'm also thoroughly depressed at the nonsense coming out of Red Hall in recent months. Sigh!

 

There are legitimate gripes with the sport.  There always are.  And these should be addressed.

 

But I do have a major problem with the way in which the journalists who cover the game - who are the only voices most people outside the bubble of obsessive fans who cluster on internet forums hear - are so remorselessly negative all the sodding time.  Things really are not *that* bad and the game on the field is as brilliant as ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are legitimate gripes with the sport. There always are. And these should be addressed.

But I do have a major problem with the way in which the journalists who cover the game - who are the only voices most people outside the bubble of obsessive fans who cluster on internet forums hear - are so remorselessly negative all the sodding time. Things really are not *that* bad and the game on the field is as brilliant as ever.

Absolutely.

For the zilionth time, there is nothing wrong with having journalists who question things and offer an alternative point of view. But constantly denigrating everything for the sake of it is not only extremely boring, it's also damaging to the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to be depressed, An RFL figure attacked for trying to do their job and promote the game. Again.

It is an open letter, not a strategy document.

He is a non-executive chairman, not an officer.

It is his opinion and response to the negativity that is damaging the sport's reputation.

The fact that no one can accept his letter for what it is, with people instead condemning him for things he has not said just illustrates how big this problem. The response from journalists resorting to ridicule and acting like they should be beyond question is the most arrogant and depressing thing. I want Barwick and Wood looking for sponsors and building up the game, not constantly having to fight the constant tide of unconstructiuve attacks that make their job more difficult.

Tony Hannan said in response that "if you are a journalist & you 'talk it up' then you ain't no journalist. You're a spin doctor. Aim for the truth" If he thinks that the truth can never be positive then he ain't no journalist either. If he thinks knocking something down you disagree with is journalism and not spin doctoring or yourself then he ain't no journalist.

(And just how boring must Tony Hannan's match reports be that he could never praise a game or a player because that not be journalism but spin doctoring. Just a load of technical statements saying someone passed, kicked, or tackled, with no description of how good or exciting any of them were.)

The biggest problem with rugby league reporting is that the line between journlism and editorial is blurred to the point of almost non-existance. Whatever someone thinks of, say, the 2x12 3x8 proposal is not journalism, it is opinion. Journalism is saying what it is. Journalism is investigating why it is being implemented, by whom, on what basis, what support it gets, how will is be judged, what analysis has been done for and against it. Journalism is saying what should be done instead on a factually researched basis. Saying "this is not good", saying "I think we should do this" is not journalism.

Just to be clear, Sadler's editorials are by definition meant to be opinion and not journalism, but for that reason they are also no more relevant to the overall debate than anything posted on this site. And just as he gets to use his prominent position to express his personal opinion, then Barwick has every entitlement to respond. And in a perfect world he could do so with the likes of Chris Irvine mocking him for it, but such low expectations we have of the games biggest enemy it understandable he has to new find ways of further diminishing his own credibility.

This.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely.

For the zilionth time, there is nothing wrong with having journalists who question things and offer an alternative point of view. But constantly denigrating everything for the sake of it is not only extremely boring, it's also damaging to the game.

Do you honestly believe most journalists are negative "for the sake of it"?

If there is any shred of institutionalised negativity in the RL press it's perhaps fueled by the fact that few, if any, of those who report on the game holds a full time position in a national media organisation.

Of the few I can think of who do (Andy Wilson and George Riley spring to mind) they're generally very positive about the game when they feel it's merited, yet if either of them veers from being 'on message' they're slated by the zealots on here almost immediately.

You have to remember, these blokes are paid to report and comment on the game, not to promote it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you honestly believe most journalists are negative "for the sake of it"?

If there is any shred of institutionalised negativity in the RL press it's perhaps fueled by the fact that few, if any, of those who report on the game holds a full time position in a national media organisation.

Of the few I can think of who do (Andy Wilson and George Riley spring to mind) they're generally very positive about the game when they feel it's merited, yet if either of them veers from being 'on message' they're slated by the zealots on here almost immediately.

You have to remember, these blokes are paid to report and comment on the game, not to promote it.

I follow these guys on twitter and whilst they can say some good things, well some of them anyway, the general tone is one of  game that is totally on its uppers. You wouldn't know for instance that we have much better crowds than 20 years ago. 

 

I'll give you an example. I was 'talking' to one on twitter last year before a game between Widnes-Catalans. The guy was pretty much saying it was pointless and that Catalans would run away with it. As it turned out, it was quite a close game but you wouldn't have bothered with it unless you were pretty much a diehard. Yet I see them talking up darts etc 'it's a full house here tonight, electric atmosphere' (usually about 6-7K.....wow, big deal). 

 

Even so, if they are just being sincere about their views, there is clearly a lot wrong with RL in their eyes. So maybe it's time to cover another sport or get another job? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even so, if they are just being sincere about their views, there is clearly a lot wrong with RL in their eyes. So maybe it's time to cover another sport or get another job?

So again, following your 'logic' on this, if a political journalist finds little in the current climate to be positive about, they too should "get another job?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So again, following your 'logic' on this, if a political journalist finds little in the current climate to be positive about, they too should "get another job?"

If it was a Labour MP waxing lyrical about the Tories or something, then yes. If they concentrated on commenting on the action on the pitch it wouldn't be even that bad but the crowd is more likely to get a mention than a brilliant piece of play. I never hear Andy Wilson mention attendances in his cricket tweets. (not that AW is that bad actually) 

 

And it isn't even in the last year or two anyway, they were moaning and groaning about everything way before then. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would've been preferable in my opinion. It's quite clear that Mr Wood is the 'architect' of these plans and is pretty determined to push them through. Who knows, history may even present him as a genius.

However, where he's erred is in trying to seek public approval for something that was always likely to be contentious. And, in doing so, he's allowed the news agenda to be diverted from the World Cup at such a critical time.

It has deflected news from the World Cup, but the game has 18 months before clubs are relegated, it needs sorting. Red Hall could have kept a lid on talks that have taken place, think of the outcry if that had happened, Martyn Sadler would have had Kittens. Think of the damage done to our game with rumour and innuendo, enough damage was done when rumours first surfaced of the changes, not until we had a statement from Red Hall was some sort of calm restored,  sadly some people have kept to their opinions even though they where based on rumour at the time..

Edited by Doghead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you honestly believe most journalists are negative "for the sake of it"?

 

When it comes to rugby league they seem to wear it as a badge of honour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It has deflected news from the World Cup, but the game has 18 months before clubs are relegated, it needs sorting. Red Hall could have kept a lid on talks that have taken place, think of the outcry if that had happened, Martyn Sadler would have had Kittens. Think of the damage done to our game with rumour and innuendo, enough damage was done when rumours first surfaced of the changes, not until we had a statement from Red Hall was some sort of calm restored,  sadly some people have kept to their opinions even though they where based on rumour at the time..

 

Very much agree.

 

Is not about debate, discussion, opinion, journalism, challenging people and so on.  As I see it Martyn was creating an opportunity for the RFL to respond to the criticisms. 

 

What really pisses me off big time is the relentless  and conditioned-reflex denigration of the RFL and SuplerLeague, it people, its actions, its lack of action, its decisions , its lack of decisions, it refereeing decisions, its structural ideas, its openness, its transparency, its secretiveness, it unfairness, the perecived bias of the disciplinary committee..in fact everything, all the time.

 

  Aggregate the individual more and the picture becomes one of a game whose fans actually dislike the game they claim to support, despite the long term rise in views and spectators and despite its expansion,

 

Sure, not everything is right, in some cases far from it, but Jeez, its nowhere near as bad as as the naysayers like to make out.

Edited by JohnM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, not everything is right, in some cases far from it, but Jeez, its nowhere near as bad as as the naysayers like to make out.

 

Absolutely.

 

I've said it for years, Its always either the best game in the word ever, or its dying and a farce and a joke.

 

Why can't there be a middle ground for once? Because thats where the game really is.

 

Having said that, don't take me seriously, I'm just an RFL sock puppet...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very much agree.

 

Is not about debate, discussion, opinion, journalism, challenging people and so on.  As I see it Martyn was creating an opportunity for the RFL to respond to the criticisms. 

 

What really pisses me off big time is the relentless  and conditioned-reflex denigration of the RFL and SuplerLeague, it people, its actions, its lack of action, its decisions , its lack of decisions, it refereeing decisions, its structural ideas, its openness, its transparency, its secretiveness, it unfairness, the perecived bias of the disciplinary committee..in fact everything, all the time.

That's quite a list, but who are you talking about here?

 

Who are the relentless denigraters?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll use this Canada v USA game here as an example. Technically, the standard is about a good amateur level and if you were so inclined could focus on that and highlight their shortcomings.

Or you could enjoy the game (the crowd certainly are) for what it is in front of a decent crowd in a new RL location.

Would taking the latter approach constitute spin or something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll use this Canada v USA game here as an example. Technically, the standard is about a good amateur level and if you were so inclined could focus on that and highlight their shortcomings.

Or you could enjoy the game (the crowd certainly are) for what it is in front of a decent crowd in a new RL location.

Would taking the latter approach constitute spin or something?

 

This. The game is good! Could be made better, but the game itself, by its rulebook, is such balanced that it makes a good or at least interesting show even at a lower level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's quite a list, but who are you talking about here?

 

Who are the relentless denigraters?

 

 

Certainly not you Martyn, so you can sleep well tonight.  :)  :)

 

In any case, I'm not going to fall into a trap like that.

 

 Its a question of, " if you have to ask....."

 

Just  aggregate the contributions of individual posters to arrive at the big picture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent posts on here by Johnoco, GJ, JohnM and a couple of others. But hats off totally to JTBC for some cracking posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Certainly not you Martyn, so you can sleep well tonight. :):)

In any case, I'm not going to fall into a trap like that.

Its a question of, " if you have to ask....."

Just aggregate the contributions of individual posters to arrive at the big picture.

Ok, so Martyn isn't one of those guilty of "relentless negativity." So who are the perpetrators? I'm genuinely keen to know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, so Martyn isn't one of those guilty of "relentless negativity." So who are the perpetrators? I'm genuinely keen to know.

Everyone who has put forward an opposite view to JohnM, I suppose!!!

IMHO, the game lacks governance from the governing body and at times merely pays lip-service to SLE. Look below SL and there is quite a lot of unrest. Look at the DR system that has caused more aggravation than any other topic this season and the RFL merely sit back and say we will look at it at the end of the season. Meantime they are now talking about bringing back Under 23's which would in effect do away with the DR system!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone who has put forward an opposite view to JohnM, I suppose!!!

IMHO, the game lacks governance from the governing body and at times merely pays lip-service to SLE. Look below SL and there is quite a lot of unrest. Look at the DR system that has caused more aggravation than any other topic this season and the RFL merely sit back and say we will look at it at the end of the season. Meantime they are now talking about bringing back Under 23's which would in effect do away with the DR system!!!

Didn't the RFL want to keep the under 23s I think that was their recommendation. The clubs voted against it and choose the DR system instead. Now that its in the best thing to do is look at it at the end of the season so I'm not sure what the RFL has done wrong here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correction bobbruce, the SL clubs decided they didn't want the Under 23's and it was presented as a "fait accompli" to the Championship clubs. That is what I mean by saying the game needs governance from the governing body, not SLE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't the RFL want to keep the under 23s I think that was their recommendation. The clubs voted against it and choose the DR system instead. Now that its in the best thing to do is look at it at the end of the season so I'm not sure what the RFL has done wrong here.

correct. Ironically, Warrington were one of the few clubs that wanted to follow RFL advice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



League Express - Mon 24th July 2017

Rugby League World - August 2017