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Duff Duff

Hookers at dummy half

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Ah. If that's right, then there was only a very limited period of time when the law was in place (two years in Australia). So the scoot lived freely both long before and after those dates. That changes things. There was a lot more scope for AHBs then.

 

It was certainly in force when I played the game - early sixties, but I'd have said it went with the introduction of limited tackles - no longer needed.

I certainly remember our no 6 saying to me - a very green rookie - in one of my first games as he passed me the ball from AHB "die wi't'ball owd lad, don't pass!"  Them wa t'days! :tongue: I also remember playing at Crown Flatt and still very green and not knowing the rule. actually scooted from half back. all my team mates were screaming for a pass - I ignored them, and nearly scored because the opponents were taken by surprise, but I was tackled and mortified when I discovered I'd conceded a scrum.  I learned the rule the hard way!

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If the no runs from dummy half rule was in place then it makes sense why the scrum half was moved out from the play of the ball as the decision making and play making rule was reduced to a shovelling role. 

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Ah. If that's right, then there was only a very limited period of time when the law was in place (two years in Australia). So the scoot lived freely both long before and after those dates. That changes things. There was a lot more scope for AHBs then.

 

No, that's not true. I remember a good few seasons with that rule in place.

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i remember keith elwell being one of the first hookers to take over the dummy half mantle, his speed of thought and pace made him a great success in the role.

Add Ronnie Wileman to that role as well.

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late 70's early 80's it was usually the scrum half who went to AHB as that was my position when i played around that time.. and was told by my coach to always get to AHB unless player tackled was otherside of the pitch and then it was whoever was nearest.

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Still think they should change the name of the role considering they don't "hook" anymore.

As well as that of the loose forward, who most of the time doesn't pack down as a "loose" in the scrum (as that's where the "hooker" tends to be these days for a quick delivery from the scrum).

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Still think they should change the name of the role considering they don't "hook" anymore.

As well as that of the loose forward, who most of the time doesn't pack down as a "loose" in the scrum (as that's where the "hooker" tends to be these days for a quick delivery from the scrum).

Centres aren't in the centre either.

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Centres aren't in the centre either.

They're in the centre positions of the three quarter line, hence "centre three-quarter" and "wing three-quarter".

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You may as well borrow American football terminology - offensive line, running backs, receivers :D

Those terms are used in RL (well, attacking line rather than offensive), but not to describe positions.

I'd call a hooker a quarter back personally. They're between the half backs and the forwards (no backs!) and also stand at the back of the scrum these days most if the time.

I'd also change the loose forward to a centre forward since they wouldn't be loose at the scrum anymore. I'd also swap their numbers.

Think this would fit with the evolution that has happened in the game. No point in continuing to call a position by a name that doesn't match its purpose anymore IMO.

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They're in the centre positions of the three quarter line, hence "centre three-quarter" and "wing three-quarter".

Do we really have a three quarter line?

 

Rugby league sides line up flat (except for those involved in the PTB and possibly the full back) in both attack and defence. The three quarters stand no deeper than the half backs.

 

I'm sure you'll point out the scrum positions but I'm not really sure why one of the least significant aspects of the modern game defines the position names.

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I'm sure you'll point out the scrum positions but I'm not really sure why one of the least significant aspects of the modern game defines the position names.

 

Lets give them new names then, that more accurately describe what they do.

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Lets give them new names then, that more accurately describe what they do.

I know scrum half,stand off,centre,winger and fullback just off the top of my head why don't we try them(;

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Do we really have a three quarter line?

 

Rugby league sides line up flat (except for those involved in the PTB and possibly the full back) in both attack and defence. The three quarters stand no deeper than the half backs.

 

I'm sure you'll point out the scrum positions but I'm not really sure why one of the least significant aspects of the modern game defines the position names.

Can't really argue with you there, although that is why we call them forwards and backs as well. It's just how the positions are defined. But basically the role of the hooker isn't a hooker anymore, neither is a loose.

 

What would you call a centre? An inside-winger?

Would a back-rower be a wide-forward and a front-rower just a prop-forward?

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I know scrum half,stand off,centre,winger and fullback just off the top of my head why don't we try them(;

Can you explain how those names describe their roles without saying "that's just what they've always been called"?

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Can you explain how those names describe their roles without saying "that's just what they've always been called"?

It describes there position from a scrum of a usual RL back line. To try to give each position a name that describes their role would be futile as different teams use players in different ways. That's before players start switching position. Take a loose forward would some teams call him a fifth prop others a second stand off others teams would call him a third second row some teams could even call him a secondary hooker. The current system is simple and it works.

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It describes there position from a scrum of a usual RL back line. To try to give each position a name that describes their role would be futile as different teams use players in different ways. That's before players start switching position. Take a loose forward would some teams call him a fifth prop others a second stand off others teams would call him a third second row some teams could even call him a secondary hooker. The current system is simple and it works.

So how does a hooker describe what he does then? (Kind if the original point I made).

And why must every formation be the same with the same names? In football they have different positions and different names.

If a team plays his loose as a third prop, why can't it just be called that? They wouldn't keep calling the extra player a midfielder in a 4-3-3 formation in football, would they?

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So how does a hooker describe what he does then? (Kind if the original point I made).

And why must every formation be the same with the same names? In football they have different positions and different names.

If a team plays his loose as a third prop, why can't it just be called that? They wouldn't keep calling the extra player a midfielder in a 4-3-3 formation in football, would they?

I think I know what your getting at but I also think because of the fluency between positions you couldn't call anyone prop as very often they won't be proping scrums.

I'll have a go though.

1/fullback - second playmaker

2/winger - winger

3/centre - attacking centre

4/centre - defensive centre

5/winger - winger

6/stand off - playmaker

7/scrum half - organiser

8/prop - driver

9/hooker - distributor

10/prop - driver

11/second row - wide runner left

12/second row - wide runner right

13/loose forward - optional driver.

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I think I know what your getting at but I also think because of the fluency between positions you couldn't call anyone prop as very often they won't be proping scrums.

I'll have a go though.

1/fullback - second playmaker

2/winger - winger

3/centre - attacking centre

4/centre - defensive centre

5/winger - winger

6/stand off - playmaker

7/scrum half - organiser

8/prop - driver

9/hooker - distributor

10/prop - driver

11/second row - wide runner left

12/second row - wide runner right

13/loose forward - optional driver.

 

I think it's a shame that the loose forward has been reduced to the role of a driver. back in the day we had the likes of harry Pinner, Harry Poole, Johny Whitely, Albert Blan and others playing the position who, whilst most definitely forwards capable of driving it with the best of them, also had skill, craftiness and guile and were playmakers of the highest calibre and you ignored that aspect of your play at your peril. They would burn you.

 

I remember GB beating an Australian side containing both Wells and Gasnier at Headingley when Johnny Whitley created a try for the scrum half jeff Stevenson and GB ultimately won by one or two points.

 

The nearest we have to that today is Sinfield even though he nominally plays stand off. It's a pity that skill set has gone as it creates another attacking dimension which is today a lost art.

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I think I know what your getting at but I also think because of the fluency between positions you couldn't call anyone prop as very often they won't be proping scrums.

I'll have a go though.

1/fullback - second playmaker

2/winger - winger

3/centre - attacking centre

4/centre - defensive centre

5/winger - winger

6/stand off - playmaker

7/scrum half - organiser

8/prop - driver

9/hooker - distributor

10/prop - driver

11/second row - wide runner left

12/second row - wide runner right

13/loose forward - optional driver.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the fullback name, as that's just where they are.

Winger is also fairly self-explanatory.

I'm not sure about why you have an attacking and a defending centre when surely they should both be doing the same job? I'd just call them a wide/edge receiver or something to that effect.

Back rowers would be wide forwards, and front rowers go forwards.

Hookers a quarterback, because that's where they stand from the ruck.

Halves could still be half backs. They stand halfway back between the ruck and the rest of the players when they make a play most of the time. Usually have one organising (chief) half and one running half.

Loose forward can be whatever the coach decides to use him for! Just a utility forward I guess if there isn't a specific role for him.

So there you go. When they abolish the scrum, here's some names!

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The roles we have for players haven't changed as much as they have for other sports, have they ?

We still need a couple of big blokes to take the ball up, do the tackling and make everyone else look good. Even if there were no scrums we'd still have them.

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I think I know what your getting at but I also think because of the fluency between positions you couldn't call anyone prop as very often they won't be proping scrums.

I'll have a go though.

1/fullback - second playmaker

2/winger - winger

3/centre - attacking centre

4/centre - defensive centre

5/winger - winger

6/stand off - playmaker

7/scrum half - organiser

8/prop - driver

9/hooker - distributor

10/prop - driver

11/second row - wide runner left

12/second row - wide runner right

13/loose forward - optional driver.

 

If one of the drivers was the player coach he could be erm the coach driver!

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Hope these help:

 

1/fullback – very fast catcher runner tackler
2/winger – very fast runner arounderer
3/centre – fast passer runner arounderer
4/centre – fast passer runner arounderer
5/winger – very fast runner arounderer
6/stand off – big passer kicker runner arounderer
7/scrum half – little passer kicker runner arounderer
8/prop – very big knocker overer
9/hooker – stumpy passer runner arounder knocker overer
10/prop – very big knocker overer
11/second row – big fast knocker overer runner passerer
12/second row – big fast knocker overer runner passerer
13/loose forward – big fast knocker overer runner passer kicker

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Hope these help:

 

1/fullback – very fast catcher runner tackler

2/winger – very fast runner arounderer

3/centre – fast passer runner arounderer

4/centre – fast passer runner arounderer

5/winger – very fast runner arounderer

6/stand off – big passer kicker runner arounderer

7/scrum half – little passer kicker runner arounderer

8/prop – very big knocker overer

9/hooker – stumpy passer runner arounder knocker overer

10/prop – very big knocker overer

11/second row – big fast knocker overer runner passerer

12/second row – big fast knocker overer runner passerer

13/loose forward – big fast knocker overer runner passer kicker

Top effort.

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