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Larry the Leit

Egypt

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I was there in April and it was a mess then. Now it's like a nightmare being re-lived over and over.

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Aid and political support to the military junta needs to end yesterday and we(the west) need to stay out of this.

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The absolute last thing we should do is side with/support the Muslim Brotherhood. 

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The absolute last thing we should do is side with/support the Muslim Brotherhood. 

 

They were the democratically elected government. But they have the wrong idea of what a democratic mandate entitles you to do.  It does not confer the right to be a dictator and to trample on the rights of minorities. IMO that's why the army removed the elected government.  What's happened since is sickening, In 2011 it was the entire population who got rid of Mubarak, and the Muslim Brotherhood swore that if they got into government they'd govern for all the people - they clearly didn't do that. This is the result.

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They were the democratically elected government. But they have the wrong idea of what a democratic mandate entitles you to do.  It does not confer the right to be a dictator and to trample on the rights of minorities. IMO that's why the army removed the elected government.  What's happened since is sickening, In 2011 it was the entire population who got rid of Mubarak, and the Muslim Brotherhood swore that if they got into government they'd govern for all the people - they clearly didn't do that. This is the result.

 

Completely agree with that statement and also with WS' statement to stay out of the resulting mess.

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The events were triggered by  moderate indigenous Moslems recognising that they are much more prosperous and happy when  Egypt engages with Western capitalism and social mores. They won't stand for having muslim fundamentalism forced on them. Unfortunately, the reaction has been brutal and the country will be plagued with guerrilla terrorism for years ... bad news for British tourists. 

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The events were triggered by  moderate indigenous Moslems recognising that they are much more prosperous and happy when  Egypt engages with Western capitalism and social mores. They won't stand for having muslim fundamentalism forced on them. Unfortunately, the reaction has been brutal and the country will be plagued with guerrilla terrorism for years ... bad news for British tourists. 

The Muslim Brotherhood are capitalists. Mubarak was not.

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The Muslim Brotherhood are capitalists. Mubarak was not.

 

 

They really don't have any answer to the financial crises of the modern world. They look back to the non-existent golden age of the caliphate.

 

In terms of the modern world, their theocracy has few answers apart  from "submission to god"

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the Muslim Brotherhood are terrorists.

 

Still, the UK has an excellent track record of leaving peace and harmony wherever it has "intervened"...NOT

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let em get on with it, its just the latest human conflict- muslims, Christians, catholics, protestants , communists, fascists, Israel ,palestine - the human race is totally mad,it thinks its the most intelligent species on the planet when its prob the least! war and battle will rage between different factions of the human race till the end of our time on this planet, as the meteors sang "youll never stop the  hate train"

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They really don't have any answer to the financial crises of the modern world. They look back to the non-existent golden age of the caliphate.

 

In terms of the modern world, their theocracy has few answers apart  from "submission to god"

I agree.

But ironically their economic policy is capitalist even if they reject the West in other respects.

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let em get on with it, its just the latest human conflict- muslims, Christians, catholics, protestants , communists, fascists, Israel ,palestine - the human race is totally mad,it thinks its the most intelligent species on the planet when its prob the least! war and battle will rage between different factions of the human race till the end of our time on this planet, as the meteors sang "youll never stop the  hate train"

 I must admit that I've always been of the "let 'em get on with it" faction.  I felt that about Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan.  I look at it this way. I pay my car insurance, house insurance year in year out in case something happens.  I hope it doesn't but if it does I'm covered - but it only covers me and mine.  As a taxpayer I pay to keep our armed forces in idleness and hope they remain so. If we need them they are there for us, not for any other ######!

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As a taxpayer I pay to keep our armed forces in idleness and hope they remain so. If we need them they are there for us, not for any other ######!

 

What about protecting the UK's interests abroad in order to ensure your way of life remains as it is? Would you support economic/military aid to organisations like the Egyptian Army in order to ensure our interests are protected?

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What about protecting the UK's interests abroad in order to ensure your way of life remains as it is? Would you support economic/military aid to organisations like the Egyptian Army in order to ensure our interests are protected?

 

 

We are supporting Al Quaeda sympathisers in Syria ... for a dispute that has nothing whatsoever to do with us.

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We are supporting Al Quaeda sympathisers in Syria ... for a dispute that has nothing whatsoever to do with us.

Exactly, all we are trying to do in Syria is get rid of one dictator and replace him with another pro-west dictator.

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We are supporting Al Quaeda sympathisers in Syria ... for a dispute that has nothing whatsoever to do with us.

 

I'd be genuinely interested to hear his thoughts on those questions as somebody I presume is more left-leaning in his political views. It wasn't a rebute or a statement, just a question.

 

And you are completely wrong with your assertion...

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But I'm not in  position to decide what's in our country's interest and what's not. Only what some politician says is in our interest. We were told that we went into Iran because they had weapons of mass destruction -they didn't.  We were told that we went into Afghanistan to protect our own streets from violence -7/7 happened in 2005 four years after we went into Afghanistan to keep our streets safe.  God alone knows what interest our country had in the affairs of Yugoslavia, but we sent troops all the same.  For my money unless we see a direct threat let them get on with it. I don't see Germany's troops getting killed in Afghanistan or France's or Japan's .  Surely any threat the Afghans pose against our country goes just as much for them as for us.  And certainly in the case of Germany and Japan they are much more able to afford military adventures than we are.  IMO it's more a case of cosying up to the US because of the so called "special relationship".

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Exactly, all we are trying to do in Syria is get rid of one dictator and replace him with another pro-west dictator.

We're not trying to do anything in Syria.

Remind me exactly what we have done for the Syrian opposition.

I'm struggling to think of one meaningful act carried out by HM Government and very, very little by the US either.

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Alway's find it funny that the Spiv called Tony Blair become the Middle East peace maker and the whole area kick's off.

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But I'm not in  position to decide what's in our country's interest and what's not. Only what some politician says is in our interest. We were told that we went into Iran because they had weapons of mass destruction -they didn't.  We were told that we went into Afghanistan to protect our own streets from violence -7/7 happened in 2005 four years after we went into Afghanistan to keep our streets safe.  God alone knows what interest our country had in the affairs of Yugoslavia, but we sent troops all the same.  For my money unless we see a direct threat let them get on with it. I don't see Germany's troops getting killed in Afghanistan or France's or Japan's .  Surely any threat the Afghans pose against our country goes just as much for them as for us.  And certainly in the case of Germany and Japan they are much more able to afford military adventures than we are.  IMO it's more a case of cosying up to the US because of the so called "special relationship".

Germany has 57 killed, France 88.  Japan is not involved due to strict laws on how it uses it's military overseas.

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Germany has 57 killed, France 88. Japan is not involved due to strict laws on how it uses it's military overseas.

Correct Japan is only allowed a small Defence force, it cannot deploy in any conflict not directly affecting Japan.

There was an issue recently when a Japanese naval ship was being used to supply US ships on combat missions. This contravened the rules. In fact the Japanese parliament pointed this out.

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But I'm not in  position to decide what's in our country's interest and what's not. Only what some politician says is in our interest. We were told that we went into Iran because they had weapons of mass destruction -they didn't.  We were told that we went into Afghanistan to protect our own streets from violence -7/7 happened in 2005 four years after we went into Afghanistan to keep our streets safe.  God alone knows what interest our country had in the affairs of Yugoslavia, but we sent troops all the same.  For my money unless we see a direct threat let them get on with it. I don't see Germany's troops getting killed in Afghanistan or France's or Japan's .  Surely any threat the Afghans pose against our country goes just as much for them as for us.  And certainly in the case of Germany and Japan they are much more able to afford military adventures than we are.  IMO it's more a case of cosying up to the US because of the so called "special relationship".

 

Fair enough and thanks for the response. For your information, both Germany and France have a few thousand troops each in Afghanistan. The Germans are largely based in the north and are (or were) in overall Command of Regional Command (North). The froggies are largely centred around the Kabul area and to the east of the city. Both have had fatalities. The Japanese have provided financial assistance to the Afghan mission and even had boots on the ground in Iraq.

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Fair enough and thanks for the response. For your information, both Germany and France have a few thousand troops each in Afghanistan. The Germans are largely based in the north and are (or were) in overall Command of Regional Command (North). The froggies are largely centred around the Kabul area and to the east of the city. Both have had fatalities. The Japanese have provided financial assistance to the Afghan mission and even had boots on the ground in Iraq.

 

Hi from Ray (Saint Billinge) Sent you a message. 

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