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Larry the Leit

Egypt

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But anyone who's read any history must know that there are never any winners in Afghanistan.We tried to colonise them throughout the 19th century, or at least put an end to the anarchy, and failed,  the Russians tried to do the same in the eigthties and it effectively finished the Soviet Union.  Now the Americans with our and other countries' aid think they can succeed where we and the Russians failed.  And it's been proved they can't.  IMO the Afghanistanis don't want order and democracy and representative government. They want to continue behaving like pirates,  IMO we should clear out and let them get on with it.

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remember on the Jeremy vine show last year, there was a heated debate about what colour or size poppy should be worn for rememberance day, people were getting very irate about the topic and realy horrible to each other, if the human race can manage to fall out about something like that than what chance is there for future world peace?

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But anyone who's read any history must know that there are never any winners in Afghanistan.We tried to colonise them throughout the 19th century, or at least put an end to the anarchy, and failed,  the Russians tried to do the same in the eigthties and it effectively finished the Soviet Union.  Now the Americans with our and other countries' aid think they can succeed where we and the Russians failed.  And it's been proved they can't.  IMO the Afghanistanis don't want order and democracy and representative government. They want to continue behaving like pirates,  IMO we should clear out and let them get on with it.

 

Where did that come from? :D

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Where did that come from? :D

It's much the same post as last time despite several flaws being pointed out.

 

The Soviets would have won in Afghanistan without US aid (via Pakistan) for one. The British Empire managed to annex half of Afghanistan (by population) into British India etc.

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IMO we should clear out and let them get on with it.

When they were left to get on with it it became a terrorist factory, training, arming and organising the people who committed some of the biggest ever atrocities since WWII.

 

Let them get on with what exactly?

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But anyone who's read any history must know that there are never any winners in Afghanistan.We tried to colonise them throughout the 19th century, or at least put an end to the anarchy, and failed,  the Russians tried to do the same in the eigthties and it effectively finished the Soviet Union.  Now the Americans with our and other countries' aid think they can succeed where we and the Russians failed.  And it's been proved they can't.  IMO the Afghanistanis don't want order and democracy and representative government. They want to continue behaving like pirates,  IMO we should clear out and let them get on with it.

When has bombing people into a democracy worked? If the afghans or anybody else for that matter desire democracy then it must come from within and not on the end of a soviet, US or NATO missile.

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When they were left to get on with it it became a terrorist factory, training, arming and organising the people who committed some of the biggest ever atrocities since WWII.

 

Let them get on with what exactly?

Courtesy Of the west, we armed and trained the mujahideen and afghan Arabs known today as the Taliban and al Qaeda. Maybe we should think ahead of the blowback and unintended consequences when we go steaming into foreign adventures.

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When they were left to get on with it it became a terrorist factory, training, arming and organising the people who committed some of the biggest ever atrocities since WWII.

 

 

The Taliban never showed the slightest interest in exporting their brand of islam, and until the western intervention were busy bumping off members of al Qaeda who they saw as arrogant arabic interlopers.

 

If you're referring to 9/11 the perpetrators were mainly Saudis, you know one of "our" allies.

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Did you receive my message?

 

Ray (Saint Billinge)

 

Ray, just responded now - sorry missed the original message.

 

Courtesy Of the west, we armed and trained the mujahideen and afghan Arabs known today as the Taliban and al Qaeda. Maybe we should think ahead of the blowback and unintended consequences when we go steaming into foreign adventures.

 

You are certainly correct about the need to look at the unintended consequences of our actions but as pointed out in a previous thread, your initial sentence is incorrect.

 

The Taliban never showed the slightest interest in exporting their brand of islam, and until the western intervention were busy bumping off members of al Qaeda who they saw as arrogant arabic interlopers.

 

If you're referring to 9/11 the perpetrators were mainly Saudis, you know one of "our" allies.

 

When were the Taliban bumping off Al Qaeda operatives? For starters, that would be directly against Pashtun code 'Pashtunwali', which is the main law within Pashtun areas of Afghanistan; even this is more important than Islam to the Pashtuns. Hospitality is a key component of this when asked for hence the Taliban not giving up Bin Laden to the US in 2001 and even in some cases, American SF soldiers not being handed over to insurgents by the local population.

 

As for the Saudis, there is bigger fish to fry with them than 'supposed links' between the Royal Family and Al Qaeda. The Saudis are practically untouchable and it isn't just about oil.

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The Taliban never showed the slightest interest in exporting their brand of islam, and until the western intervention were busy bumping off members of al Qaeda who they saw as arrogant arabic interlopers.

 

If you're referring to 9/11 the perpetrators were mainly Saudis, you know one of "our" allies.

Absolutely right, as barbaric as the Taliban were/are they didn't seek to export their brand of Islam nor commit acts of terrorism outside it's borders. As for the Saudis our "best friends" in the region what's the difference between the house of saud and the Taliban? The answer is of course oil, buying US/UK arms and investing trillions of $$$ in US banks and on wall st.

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We're not trying to do anything in Syria.Remind me exactly what we have done for the Syrian opposition.I'm struggling to think of one meaningful act carried out by HM Government and very, very little by the US either.

How about hundres of millions of $ and £ given to the Syrian rebels by the US and UK governments, how about the US and UK recognizing the Syrian "rebels" as the legitimate representatives of the Syrian people, how about the CIA and US special forces training the "rebels" in Jordan or the US and UK governments telling Assad to step down.

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Ray, just responded now - sorry missed the original message.

 

 

You are certainly correct about the need to look at the unintended consequences of our actions but as pointed out in a previous thread, your initial sentence is incorrect.

 Which was?

 

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How about hundres of millions of $ and £ given to the Syrian rebels by the US and UK governments, how about the US and UK recognizing the Syrian "rebels" as the legitimate representatives of the Syrian people, how about the CIA and US special forces training the "rebels" in Jordan or the US and UK governments telling Assad to step down.

Only two of those claims are true.

The Syrian rebels have not been given money by the US or UK and special forces have not been training rebels in Jordan (which rebels? there is no significant rebellion in Jordan).

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When they were left to get on with it it became a terrorist factory, training, arming and organising the people who committed some of the biggest ever atrocities since WWII.

 

Let them get on with what exactly?

 

Killing one another. It's what they've always done. Quarantine the country and let them do what they like.

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