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A full and thorough 360 review should be undertaken with regards to open age summer rugby ASAP.

This should include only current players coaches and officials of the clubs rather than the biased pole which was conducted prior to the move to summer.

We need to get the opinions of those currently involved woth the game godd bad and in different if we are to improve the current situation.

If as you say the NCL is run by the clubs and for the clubs this shouldnt really be an issue and a sensible solution should be easy enough to find.

However, if the powers that be wont admit that the current format aint working and eat some humble pie then I personally fear for the future of the game at open age.

We need to address the situation now or risk pushing the game beyond the tipping point for some clubs whom no doubt may begin to look to play their rugby elsewhere.

 

I wouldn't hold your breath for this happening (a full and thorough 360 review) I wasn't at the leagues' meeting earlier this week, but reports leaking from it, suggest the RFL are saying the full three year trial on summer rugby will be completed. Now shoot me if I'm wrong but what sort of a review is that?

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If for example there is a gap in revenue caused by lower gates in the NCL don't spend hours weeks and months arguing about the cause focus on what can be done to plug that gap. Then when the time is right sit down assess the situation and see if you can come up with any suggested ammendments to the current set up to address the issue.

 

I think that some suggested amendments to the current set have been put forward but these are just scoffed at as, "the winter mob," moaning.

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I wouldn't hold your breath for this happening (a full and thorough 360 review) I wasn't at the leagues' meeting earlier this week, but reports leaking from it, suggest the RFL are saying the full three year trial on summer rugby will be completed. Now shoot me if I'm wrong but what sort of a review is that?

I'd be asking if it carries on like it is will they have a plan to move back after the three years is up or will it have to run into a 4th season.

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I prefer to remain anynomous because the view I give are my own. I wouldn't want to be seen to be acting as a spokesman for any club. I don't have the authority to do that on a forum such as this . Nevertheless my views are based on knowledge and experience. I do get very frustrated by people continually trying to undermine and devalue the hard work many clubs have put in to make themselves a success. I've got no problem with people wanting to wallow in self pity as long as they don't try and drag others around down with them .

You just can't drag or pressgang any drunk out of the bar to fill a shirt and play at the NCL standard.

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Gar

 

I am not one to wallow in self pity or drag anyone down either, I have been involved in amateur rugby league as a player, coach and club official for over 30 years and I speak straight from the heart when I say that open age rugby is in trouble.

As an NCL coach I can whole heartedly confirm that I have been unable to field my strongest side for any longer than a two week period - and that's a fact!

How can this be good for the playing standard? How is this going to improve the playing standard?

Our home game attendances are down - and yes we have tried to improve match day entertainment with limited success.

The referees are worse than ever - some of which are so unfit that they just cannot keep up with the pace of the game and their interpretation of the rules at times is farcical.

The touch judges are barely out of puberty and seem terrified to make a decision - and yes I do agree without these officials games would not go ahead.

 

As a coach I constantly want my team to improve but due to the other distractions (i.e. holidays, festivals, weddings, stag dos etc,etc) I find that at certain periods of the season I am having to put development on hold due to a lack of players and my only focus is then to fulfil the fixture. Is this what the NCL should be about - just fulfilling fixtures or developing better players & teams?

 

The powers that be at the NCL need to start listening to those of us at the coal face rather than sit in the ivory towers and do nothing, because I do really believe that with a few adjustments/amendments we can re -ignite open age rugby league but if we do nothing the decline will continue.

 

A few of my suggestions are:

 

Regionalise the NCL 2 divisions east & west with a play off system from each respective division (top four from each division east & west);

Get around the table with the RFL NCL & Barla and bring back the national cup:

Scrap the NCL cup:

Allow teams up to lets say 4 fixtures that can be re arranged to allow for weddings, holidays etc, basically peak periods when teams may genuinely struggling for numbers.

 

If we do nothing and carry on as normal then all we will get is what we have got for the last 2 years - a devalued competition with playing standards that are on the slide.

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Gar

 

I am not one to wallow in self pity or drag anyone down either, I have been involved in amateur rugby league as a player, coach and club official for over 30 years and I speak straight from the heart when I say that open age rugby is in trouble.

As an NCL coach I can whole heartedly confirm that I have been unable to field my strongest side for any longer than a two week period - and that's a fact!

How can this be good for the playing standard? How is this going to improve the playing standard?

Our home game attendances are down - and yes we have tried to improve match day entertainment with limited success.

The referees are worse than ever - some of which are so unfit that they just cannot keep up with the pace of the game and their interpretation of the rules at times is farcical.

The touch judges are barely out of puberty and seem terrified to make a decision - and yes I do agree without these officials games would not go ahead.

 

As a coach I constantly want my team to improve but due to the other distractions (i.e. holidays, festivals, weddings, stag dos etc,etc) I find that at certain periods of the season I am having to put development on hold due to a lack of players and my only focus is then to fulfil the fixture. Is this what the NCL should be about - just fulfilling fixtures or developing better players & teams?

 

The powers that be at the NCL need to start listening to those of us at the coal face rather than sit in the ivory towers and do nothing, because I do really believe that with a few adjustments/amendments we can re -ignite open age rugby league but if we do nothing the decline will continue.

 

A few of my suggestions are:

 

Regionalise the NCL 2 divisions east & west with a play off system from each respective division (top four from each division east & west);

Get around the table with the RFL NCL & Barla and bring back the national cup:

Scrap the NCL cup:

Allow teams up to lets say 4 fixtures that can be re arranged to allow for weddings, holidays etc, basically peak periods when teams may genuinely struggling for numbers.

 

If we do nothing and carry on as normal then all we will get is what we have got for the last 2 years - a devalued competition with playing standards that are on the slide.

BITGOD

We differ slightly in terms of terminology. I would use the phrase 'changes are needed' rather than 'in trouble' but I guess that's the politician in me. We are certainly agreed that changes are needed.

I've been accused of ducking questions. I'll try not to do that in regards of your post but if I do let me know.

If as an NCL coach you've managed to field your strongest side for two consecutive weeks you've done better than most!

If we are going to get some continuity back which is the only way to improves standards then changes do need to be made.

As regards match day attendence most clubs are down. Some are doing better than last year but they tend to be the promoted teams who are riding on the crest of a wave. I would be interested to know what you've tried as pre match entertainment and what has helped or indeed what hasn't.

The Ref's do seem to be poor verging on diabolical. I don't think these issues are perculiar to summer rugby or indeed rugby league in general but I agree absolutely it's an area that needs looking at.

The NCL should be the pinnacle of amateur rugby league. It still is at the moment but to ensure that remains the case then as a league they need to listen very carefully to what it's members are saying and make the necessary amendments.

As regards your suggestions

Regionalisation - YES

National Cup - YES

Scrap NCL Cup - YES

Right to postpone - ISH. I think four is too many and would lead to a stop/ start campaign but one each side of a mid-season break would be perfect...

The RFL do need to start listening to those at the coalface but in my humble opinion they'll listen more to those on the inside trying to make the current system work than they will to those on the outside trying to drag everything back to the way it was.

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Good to see that some of my points are finding common ground.

If people like me are not on the inside then who is!

My suggestions are just that suggestions feel free like I say and everyone for the good of the game speak up n raise your concerns rather than just dit on your hands!

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If we take the suggestions you have raised one by one is there anybody who doesn't think regionalisation is a sensible option ? Does anybody have any concerns over such a proposal?

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They are good proposals for the NCL going forward but how would it help the league this thread is about apart from the national cup ?

Would returning the reserve grades back to a more traditional season along with the youth serve the game more and leave the NCL as a stand alone summer competition ?

Then the youth competition claims back its kudos an would free the more mature kids to double up in the senior comp along with the better reserve grade players.

Putting more revenue back into the clubs .

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BITGOD

We differ slightly in terms of terminology. I would use the phrase 'changes are needed' rather than 'in trouble' but I guess that's the politician in me. We are certainly agreed that changes are needed.

I've been accused of ducking questions. I'll try not to do that in regards of your post but if I do let me know.

If as an NCL coach you've managed to field your strongest side for two consecutive weeks you've done better than most!

If we are going to get some continuity back which is the only way to improves standards then changes do need to be made.

As regards match day attendence most clubs are down. Some are doing better than last year but they tend to be the promoted teams who are riding on the crest of a wave. I would be interested to know what you've tried as pre match entertainment and what has helped or indeed what hasn't.

The Ref's do seem to be poor verging on diabolical. I don't think these issues are perculiar to summer rugby or indeed rugby league in general but I agree absolutely it's an area that needs looking at.

The NCL should be the pinnacle of amateur rugby league. It still is at the moment but to ensure that remains the case then as a league they need to listen very carefully to what it's members are saying and make the necessary amendments.

As regards your suggestions

Regionalisation - YES

National Cup - YES

Scrap NCL Cup - YES

Right to postpone - ISH. I think four is too many and would lead to a stop/ start campaign but one each side of a mid-season break would be perfect...

The RFL do need to start listening to those at the coalface but in my humble opinion they'll listen more to those on the inside trying to make the current system work than they will to those on the outside trying to drag everything back to the way it was.

 

Gar, once again you've not made one solid suggestion and your ability to think for yourself is shining through with your somewhat patronising agreeance with BITGOD.  

 

And as Taxi points out, these proposals - as good as they may be - are all NCL orientated, not helpful in the least to Northwest Counties ARL unless as Taxi suggests, the A teams are placed in the NWC ARL

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Judging by your rather unnecessarily aggressive post I think you are worried some progress may be made and that wouldnt suit you would it.....

As regards Taxis comments I can't see how standards are going to rise at NCL level without some form of viable back up team playing alongside the NCL teams in the summer season. It may well be prudent to run a team in winter as well if there is sufficient demand but I can't see how having an 'A' Team playing winter will help teams in the NCL.

Incidentally how many people are there involved in running these old winter leagues. I heard 57. Is that correct?

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Judging by your rather unnecessarily aggressive post I think you are worried some progress may be made and that wouldnt suit you would it.....

As regards Taxis comments I can't see how standards are going to rise at NCL level without some form of viable back up team playing alongside the NCL teams in the summer season. It may well be prudent to run a team in winter as well if there is sufficient demand but I can't see how having an 'A' Team playing winter will help teams in the NCL.

Incidentally how many people are there involved in running these old winter leagues. I heard 57. Is that correct?

 

If the truth comes out as unnececcarilry aggressive to you then so be it, that's called hurting. It's obvious that you unable to grasp the relevance in Taxi's comments, which were being helpful to re-instate the Northwest Counties ARL to a level of a couple of years ago. 

 

Anyhow what sort of viable back up is being operated now with 24 - 0 being the favoured scoreline in many games?

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I have read your post several times. I'm afraid you have a tendency to jump to the conclusion that people who do not agree with the contents of your post have misunderstood the contents. It's not that I do not understand what you are saying its just I don't agree with it.

I do not believe that running a team in a winter league particularly benefits a summer NCL side. It may benefit the club in terms of increased revenue, it may help save some leagues that would otherwise cease to exist and it may help to satisfy demand from some players who want to play in the winter. Equally, I'm not suggesting such a side wouldn't have any benefits that would help the NCL side. What I am saying is that any back up side would need to be playing the same season to really be of benefit.

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I honestly can't see the logic in chopping, changing, tweaking, dividing or even regionalising a competition just to run it in the summer so it falls into place with the RFL plans of feeding players downwards.

 

 Can anyone  (even Del boy WHO WILL BE CURTAIN TWITCHING on here) please tell me what was so wrong with the NCL when it played in the traditional season, what was wrong with NCL `A` teams playing in a traditional season, what was wrong with the juniors having a mid-season break - It's seems to me the old traditional season was working.

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FOR GAWD SAKE MOVE ON MAN

Why change something that wasn't broken and I also don't buy into the theory of you will get teething problems, what has basically happened is probably the best template for a amateur league has moved from winter to summer, so you still have the same teams, still have the same players, still have the same coaching staff and still have the same management committee so what has gone wrong with the promise of; more players. more species, more bar takings etc

 

I'll tell you one of the problem to much grey matter and not enough common sense, the grey matter has come up with what looks to be a good plan but common sense says people during the better weather do other things that they can not do during to cold, wet, dark depressing winter months.

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The problem is Gar there is not enough players to sustain two senior teams along with a youth set up in the current season .

So let me get this right what you are saying so that you can turn out a NCL first team out the other two do not matter ?

Everybody including your good self seems to think that standards have dropped , what I am saying is the the youth section of the game needs to be played inI a season that compliments the age which this playing season quite clearly works against it which means the food chain for the open age is drying up .

The A teams also suffer because more and more are needed to make up the numbers to fulfil first team fixtures which leads to more cancelled games and more players left without a game .

Regular meaningfull fixtures raise standards what we have now is the opposite , if standards are drippiping and the player pool is diminishing how do you raise standards Gar ?

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Some clubs may struggle to attract enough players two sustain two senior teams some may not. I have seen nothing to suggest Youth Rugby is better suited to winter on the contrary my experience of Youth Winter rugby recently was it was something of a farce.

It's not so much a question of the other two things not mattering but those involved with running or coaching NCL teams at the elite level of the amateur game will probably be considering the available options in a different light than Joe Bloggs who is running a small pub outfit.

I must admit your last paragraph has defeated me. No idea what you are on about.

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Some clubs may struggle to attract enough players two sustain two senior teams some may not. I have seen nothing to suggest Youth Rugby is better suited to winter on the contrary my experience of Youth Winter rugby recently was it was something of a farce.

It's not so much a question of the other two things not mattering but those involved with running or coaching NCL teams at the elite level of the amateur game will probably be considering the available options in a different light than Joe Bloggs who is running a small pub outfit.

I must admit your last paragraph has defeated me. No idea what you are on about.

 

One small thing that we agree on Gar, I think that the Taxi took a wrong turn with the end of that last post.

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Some clubs may struggle to attract enough players two sustain two senior teams some may not. I have seen nothing to suggest Youth Rugby is better suited to winter on the contrary my experience of Youth Winter rugby recently was it was something of a farce.

It's not so much a question of the other two things not mattering but those involved with running or coaching NCL teams at the elite level of the amateur game will probably be considering the available options in a different light than Joe Bloggs who is running a small pub outfit.

I must admit your last paragraph has defeated me. No idea what you are on about.

My small pub outfit (Moorends) has 60 players signed on and runs two teams (Last season we failed to fulfil one fixture), we deliver weekly coaching into 10 local primary schools, we unlike some are prepared to do this quietly and slowly and if the current trend continues little pub sides like ours will soon be producing better on field standards than a few NCL clubs are being able to sustain at the moment.

 

Now you know which club I've been involved with as a player, committee, coach, sponsor dare you state the club you have/are/never been involved with.

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My small pub outfit (Moorends) has 60 players signed on and runs two teams (Last season we failed to fulfil one fixture), we deliver weekly coaching into 10 local primary schools, we unlike some are prepared to do this quietly and slowly and if the current trend continues little pub sides like ours will soon be producing better on field standards than a few NCL clubs are being able to sustain at the moment.

 

Now you know which club I've been involved with as a player, committee, coach, sponsor dare you state the club you have/are/never been involved with.

I'm glad you came clean and told me. I would never have guessed given that the link to the Moorends website that appears on every one of your posts.Given the excellent work you are doing in the local community can we expect to see some new littles marauders joining the YJL and enjoying the delights of summer rugby soon? Similarly with sixty over age players can't be long before you put out a summer team can it?

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I'm glad you came clean and told me. I would never have guessed given that the link to the Moorends website that appears on every one of your posts.Given the excellent work you are doing in the local community can we expect to see some new littles marauders joining the YJL and enjoying the delights of summer rugby soon? Similarly with sixty over age players can't be long before you put out a summer team can it?

Says OXO on buses, I think they will be joining a Pennine junior league and we've done the summer and that's why even after being a very successful summer team I'm confident it will not get any better and unlike some clubs we did give our players a vote on four options available to them.

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