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Martyn Sadler

Do we expect too much

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I think people are getting confused about which direction Wigan are attacking.  When Charnley knocks the ball out of Shaul's hands it travels forwards towards the Hull line.   It's a Wigan player knocking the ball forwards, which is a knock on.   And O'Loughlin is ahead of Charnley not behind him, which makes him offside IMO.  

 

Still great play from Charnley and he saved a certain try.

 

 

At last, someone who understood my point.

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I think people are getting confused about which direction Wigan are attacking. When Charnley knocks the ball out of Shaul's hands it travels forwards towards the Hull line. It's a Wigan player knocking the ball forwards, which is a knock on. And O'Loughlin is ahead of Charnley not behind him, which makes him offside.

As I say you couldn't be certain on the knock on because he could hit the ball into Shaul but watch the video again the point at which oloughlin picks the ball up is closer to the Wigan line than where charnley touches it.

Also to add its completely irrelevant where charnley ends up all that matters is where he touched the ball. If the ball goes forward from that point (towards the hull line) oloughlin offside. If as I think it does the ball goes backwards (towards the Wigan line) then he's onside.

Edited by bobbruce

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Back to the original question, and I'd say definitively yes - we do expect too much.

I've mentioned before that I've had one or two minor successes in getting people to watch the game out here, people without any inkling of RL's history and without any of the inbuilt prejudices Brits may have.

I had a Germany guy round to watch Saturday's game, and it was the first RL match he'd ever seen. In no particular order, his comments were.

- The big hits and speed of the game were impressive

- Hull looked they were seeing a rugby ball for the first time

- It was an exciting contest all the way through

- That Tomkins is skilful

- There were a lot of empty spaces for a final

- It would good to attend a game

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As I say you couldn't be certain on the knock on because he could hit the ball into Shaul but watch the video again the point at which oloughlin picks the ball up is closer to the Wigan line than where charnley touches it.

 

 

If Charnley knocks it forwards (relative to his own line, not him), then it's a knock on if it hits Shaul.   I think it possibly does.

 

I've looked at the video frame by frame now (boring afternoon in the office) and I think O'Loughlin is clearly nearer the Hull line when Charnley knocks on.  Then, as he loops back round, he runs on past the point where Charnley hit it therefore playing himself onside.

 

It's a scrum to Hull I think.

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I just don't get the Tomkins comment. At best he was average.

 

 

He did very little for 79 minutes and fifty seconds out of the 80.  In the other ten seconds he scored a cracker of a try.

 

I don't think the weather was very helpful to players with his style.

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Living on Merseyside, the Wirral, I talk to soccer fans of Liverpool, Everton and Tranmere.

Ask any Everton or Tranmere fan "how was the game" and most of the time the answer is "rubbish".

Liverpool fans are less critical but very often they are not best pleased with their team's performances. Reds fans are in dread of the day Gerrard finishes.

I do think that watching Wigan regularly I see far more games of a better quality than the soccer fans who watch regularly. We see plenty skill and plenty scores in a game that is played by honest players.

Soccer rarely has plenty goals, last night's 0-0 being an example. There is plenty skill on show in soccer but also plenty cheating which I simply can't stand!

The one thing that will always keep me watching RL and keep me away from soccer is the spitting hatred from the sections of the crowds. They are angry, volatile, foul mouthed and abusive. No wonder they don't allow alchol be seved in sections of the grounds.

At Wembley we mixed with HullFC fans in the pubs, on the trains to the game and around the stadium. I didn't see any trouble and I doubt there was any.

The mixing of crowds is excellent yet we forget that only happens because the Metropolitan Police allow it. Our good reputation precedes us and this is something I'm proud of.

I believe I follow the best sport in the UK for all the reasons above.

The game, its players and us fans who overall I think are great no matter from which club.

 

there was a bit of trouble. There was a fairly sustained set to (maybe less than a couple of minutes but it seemed longer) towards the end of the game between two sets of Hull fans in the top tier of the stand opposite the tunnel. One faction had black and white face paint on and were wearing black and white chequered hats - quite incongrous to see them then laying in the punches. 

I quite often see people getting punched at major RL events so never feel entirely comfortable with the 'no trouble here' line. Saw a bloke threatening another with extreme violence at last years CC Final - the man on the end of the abuse was with his wife and 4 kids, all of whom were clearly petrified. Saw a man floored with one punch outside OT before last years GF. Was sat near 1x Hull fan and 1x Hull KR fan punching each other at Magic last year. Was directly behind two Wigan fans who went at it big style in the beer queue at their SF in Huddersfield last year.  Maybe it's just me and I'm causing all this stuff ;-)

Obviously the vast vast majority are law abiding folk and can go to a game without whacking someone or behaving like a tool, far more than football but behind that 'other' code in my opinon

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I just don't get the Tomkins comment. At best he was average.

You say that as someone who watches the game week in week out. To someone who doesn't, he will look great. Especially as his wonder try happened right at the end, that's what they'll remember.

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there was a bit of trouble. There was a fairly sustained set to (maybe less than a couple of minutes but it seemed longer) towards the end of the game between two sets of Hull fans in the top tier of the stand opposite the tunnel. One faction had black and white face paint on and were wearing black and white chequered hats - quite incongrous to see them then laying in the punches. 

I quite often see people getting punched at major RL events so never feel entirely comfortable with the 'no trouble here' line. Saw a bloke threatening another with extreme violence at last years CC Final - the man on the end of the abuse was with his wife and 4 kids, all of whom were clearly petrified. Saw a man floored with one punch outside OT before last years GF. Was sat near 1x Hull fan and 1x Hull KR fan punching each other at Magic last year. Was directly behind two Wigan fans who went at it big style in the beer queue at their SF in Huddersfield last year.  Maybe it's just me and I'm causing all this stuff ;-)

Obviously the vast vast majority are law abiding folk and can go to a game without whacking someone or behaving like a tool, far more than football but behind that 'other' code in my opinon

I've never seen it personally, but I've been aware of "isolated incidents". I tent to be around the middle, never sat in one of the ends because I tend to get my tickets early.

 

The way I see it, I've been to Wembley 6 times now, and the 1 football match I went to is the only time someone has been killed. But then, that's statistics for you...

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Back to the original question, and I'd say definitively yes - we do expect too much.

I've mentioned before that I've had one or two minor successes in getting people to watch the game out here, people without any inkling of RL's history and without any of the inbuilt prejudices Brits may have.

I had a Germany guy round to watch Saturday's game, and it was the first RL match he'd ever seen. In no particular order, his comments were.

- The big hits and speed of the game were impressive

- Hull looked they were seeing a rugby ball for the first time

- It was an exciting contest all the way through

- That Tomkins is skilful

- There were a lot of empty spaces for a final

- It would good to attend a game

The Tomkins comment must have hurt!

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I just don't get the Tomkins comment. At best he was average.

Again comments my in-laws made about how good he is. We see him all the time and as Martyn asks, maybe we expect too much.

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Or maybe his reputation went before him?

I doubt either Just Browny's German newbie or certainly my in-laws had ever heard of him before the match.

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They are easily pleased then as nothing he did barring the try was anything like memorable or maybe that WAS the only memorable aspect of the match for a newbie?

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It seemed to be a reference to the speed of his movement when he received the ball. I'd agree that Hull kept him quiet, but the threat was clearly there if Hull had lost concentration just once.

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Tomkins may not have had his best ever game, but when I talk to non RL fans about the game he is almost always the first (and only) name they mention. Like him or not, Tomkins is the nearest thing we have to a rugby league superstar in this country. 

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Tomkins may not have had his best ever game, but when I talk to non RL fans about the game he is almost always the first (and only) name they mention. Like him or not,Tomkins is the nearest thing we have to a rugby league superstar in this country.

That's my point though Griff. I wouldn't expect anyone seeing or hearing about the sport for the first time ever on Saturday to come out with a comment like "That Tomkins is skilful" unless they had previously heard about him as he had one of his few virtually anonymous games. Edited by deluded pom?

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They are easily pleased then as nothing he did barring the try was anything like memorable or maybe that WAS the only memorable aspect of the match for a newbie?

 

But in those conditions I wouldn't expect him to be able to play at his top standard, especially if just back from injury.  He did what he had to do, very effectively and solid as he needed to be in the conditions. That is he played to the conditions as did Wigan very effectively, a pity Hull didn't have the intelligence to fully adapt their game.    He did knock on once but it was not in a particular "advantageous" part of the field. 

 

The only real opportunity he had he took very skilfully for the conditions.  Not bad when you consider.

 

To add, sometime even if he isn't "on song" it is enough for him to be there to attract "high alert" attention from the opposition, that in itself causes undue anxiety by the opposition which doesn't help with the nervous energy drain.

Edited by redjonn

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