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Summer/Winter debate

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The naive optimist in me would love to see a single, unitary game structure under one single governing body, playing in one of summer or winter where you can plot your way all the way from the most junior club all the way to super league. The realist in me knows that we're more likely to get a merging of union and league than that.

It's a bitter shame that we've such a fragmented sport and I'd hate to think how many players and teams we've lost because of it.

The truth is (and I'm happy to be castigated for this view) some people enjoy the status of being on a committee, along with the small time politics that accompanies it, more than they enjoy the game.

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The naive optimist in me would love to see a single, unitary game structure under one single governing body, playing in one of summer or winter where you can plot your way all the way from the most junior club all the way to super league.  The realist in me knows that we're more likely to get a merging of union and league than that.

 

It's a bitter shame that we've such a fragmented sport and I'd hate to think how many players and teams we've lost because of it.

Agree 100%.

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The truth is (and I'm happy to be castigated for this view) some people enjoy the status of being on a committee, along with the small time politics that accompanies it, more than they enjoy the game.

That is indeed the issue, the game needs to be run by a unified governing body (although I would like that governing body to be more like the RFL of Richard Lewis than the current model). It needs a playing season followed by the vast majority of the sport so that players and spectators know when the playing season is. None of this will happen due to the actions of people more interested in the politics of the sport and their own club's fortunes than they are about increasing profile, participation or growth. We seem to have a group of blazeaucrats that all 'thought summer rugby was wrong' but 'went into it whole-heartedly and found it didn't work'. Many of our clubs are deeply unwelcoming to people outside their usual playing base, this is why losing players that can't play in summer is not seen as an opportunity to bring new players through.

To me the community game must be about participation above all else. If standards dip slightly when new players get blooded is that a real problem?

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From a coaching perspective I have had to "blood" as you term it at least 17 players this season whom were/are not ready for the standard tgat our first team are currently playing.

This is mainly due to losing no fewer than 12 players whom are unable to commit to the requirements of summer rugby mainly due to work.

We have as a club reacted to this by bringing through players from last seasons under 18s and our second team but to be quite honest these lads are just not ready for this step up especially when you have to put so many of them into the first team all in one go.

I was not in favour of a switch to summer but decided to stay involved purely and simply because I enjoy the game however, this enjoyment is slowly but surely being eroded as rather than coaching I know find myself just having to get 17 players together for match days especially during holiday periods etc etc.

Summer rugby is a fantastic concept in theory but in practice its much more difficult to make work than first envisaged and in my opinion the traditional season (winter) was far easier as a coach.

I think again in my humble opinion summer could work with some adjustments (as I have listed elswhere) and I urge the NCL and other summer league committees to please take on board the views of those of us "at the coal face" or risk losing more players coaches and volunteers.

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Would the players who cannot commit to playing in the summer due to work not have the same problem in winter?

To be 100% honest as someone who is largely on the fence here but has a long association with the summer game, as a player, administrator and coach, I have to say that summer does throw up more 'variables' in terms of player availability.

I wouldn't want to hazard a guess as to how much of a game changer this is as I do actually think that younger lads are generally far less stoic and committed than they were 10-15 years ago.

Edited by Pottsy

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From a coaching perspective I have had to "blood" as you term it at least 17 players this season whom were/are not ready for the standard tgat our first team are currently playing.

This is mainly due to losing no fewer than 12 players whom are unable to commit to the requirements of summer rugby mainly due to work.

We have as a club reacted to this by bringing through players from last seasons under 18s and our second team but to be quite honest these lads are just not ready for this step up especially when you have to put so many of them into the first team all in one go.

I was not in favour of a switch to summer but decided to stay involved purely and simply because I enjoy the game however, this enjoyment is slowly but surely being eroded as rather than coaching I know find myself just having to get 17 players together for match days especially during holiday periods etc etc.

Summer rugby is a fantastic concept in theory but in practice its much more difficult to make work than first envisaged and in my opinion the traditional season (winter) was far easier as a coach.

I think again in my humble opinion summer could work with some adjustments (as I have listed elswhere) and I urge the NCL and other summer league committees to please take on board the views of those of us "at the coal face" or risk losing more players coaches and volunteers.

Are other teams not introducing new inexperienced lads too? If so why are your newcomers finding the transition so tough?

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The naive optimist in me would love to see a single, unitary game structure under one single governing body, playing in one of summer or winter where you can plot your way all the way from the most junior club all the way to super league.  The realist in me knows that we're more likely to get a merging of union and league than that.

 

It's a bitter shame that we've such a fragmented sport and I'd hate to think how many players and teams we've lost because of it.

 

The fragmentation has been manufactured by the governing body .

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The fragmentation has been manufactured by the governing body .

I don't disagree but some have seized that with glee in the community game.

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Most if not all of the lads we have lost are construction workers and lighter nights = longer working days and having to work eeekends.

Its not too bad blooding a few younger and or second team players but once you start losing your key players (6, 7, 13 1 ) for example or you lose 3 or 4 experienced forwards your performances will naturally suffer.

I do believe that most teams have had to contend with this matter too and thats why the results go haywire as we have seen.

I dont recall having the same problem as a coach and a player during the winter campaigns.

If we want the amatuer open age game to continue and develop then we must be open to a variety potential solutions - sadly our administrators dont seem to be listening or dont want to comment either!

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Just to add a little weight to the thread one of our oldest clubs in the Cumbria men's league has left the league before the season end

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Just to add a little weight to the thread one of our oldest clubs in the Cumbria men's league has left the league before the season end

 

Which club is that Chris, I like many others thought that everything was rosy up in your neck of the woods.

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You could argue that summer rugby is working because games are getting played, just not as many and not to the same standard as winter for all the reasons documented

and it would take an extremely well trained politician to try and convince anybody any different,

Does anybody remember why we moved in the first place, I'm sure I was told for better playing standard, well hasn't that back fired.

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I don't disagree but some have seized that with glee in the community game.

I don't disagree but some have seized that with glee in the community game.

Should we as the community game be treated as an equal in the game or are we just here to serve the elite ?

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Seaton Rangers only 3 years ago they were the Carla champions and won 2 of the 3 major cups and had 2 teams.

Lot of good people up there and its a real shame

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not this again, i know im getting fed up of this now i don't know about anyone else there is no point to it. it will never end people prefer winter and others summer so it will never be sorted or come to a compromise. just leave this debate alone now............................... RANT OVER  

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not this again, i know im getting fed up of this now i don't know about anyone else there is no point to it. it will never end people prefer winter and others summer so it will never be sorted or come to a compromise. just leave this debate alone now............................... RANT OVER  

 

Look at the title of the thread mate, surely you could have kept clear if you've no desire to debate

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it is totally pointless debate end of 

 

You're offering your opinion in the debate now mate - don't get caught up in it

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it is totally pointless debate end of 

Is it pointless, you only have to go back a couple of years and I was the only one highlighting the problems with summer rugby, now after nearly two years every point I made and more are starting to be aired on here.

 

 The more the problems are brought into the open the more other clubs are openly agreeing they have the same ones, this can only be sending the message to the NCL committee.

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Is it pointless, you only have to go back a couple of years and I was the only one highlighting the problems with summer rugby, now after nearly two years every point I made and more are starting to be aired on here.

The more the problems are brought into the open the more other clubs are openly agreeing they have the same ones, this can only be sending the message to the NCL committee.

I just don't understand why you keep weighing in over this though, Jim.

Your club used summer to relaunch etc but ultimately chose winter. Other clubs, for the time being, seem to have chosen a different path.

Why are we discussing the whole thing in such dramatic terms though? Surely it's simply a case of all players and clubs choosing their preferred path.

The 'market' will ultimately decide itself.

Edited by Pottsy

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I just don't understand why you keep weighing in over this though, Jim.

Your club used summer to relaunch etc but ultimately chose winter. Other clubs, for the time being, seem to have chosen a different path.

Why are we discussing the whole thing in such dramatic terms though? Surely it's simply a case of all players and clubs choosing their preferred path.

The 'market' will ultimately decide itself.

Yes Pottsy but the market has been flooded with some unbelievable RFL offers

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I just don't understand why you keep weighing in over this though, Jim.

Your club used summer to relaunch etc but ultimately chose winter. Other clubs, for the time being, seem to have chosen a different path.

Why are we discussing the whole thing in such dramatic terms though? Surely it's simply a case of all players and clubs choosing their preferred path.

The 'market' will ultimately decide itself.

So you want everyone to keep quiet while the RFL and it's paid disciples go around preaching everything BARLA/Winter is bad etc

 

Look at it step by step, starting with service area kids being told where and when to play, then look at the clubs who are reporting they are in favour of summer, also take a look at which clubs have been getting the unbelievable offers and I bet most roads lead to Rome & NCL committee.

Edited by Marauder

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