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Summer/Winter debate

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aparently SL in summer would fail.... that was 20 years ago....

then it was semi-pro that would fail after their switch...again many years later they have all improved and are fine....

It will take 10-20 years for the new generation to filter through and will laugh at the thought of being stood out in 0 degrees in the sleet in semi-darkness with the old men around the club telling tales of how they used to play in this and smoke in the clubhouse and changing rooms and all the other anecdotes!

The majority of winter season games were played in the same weeks the summer games are played, it's proven as fact that young lads will miss a good proportion of games due to other commitments during the summer which have been listed many times, The selling point originally amongst others, is that it would improve the standards, it would take a brave man to argue the case the standards have improved if you consider how many different players are used during the course of the season just to turn a side out.

What you need to realise is that the young kids who are currently enjoying playing in the summer, Believe it are not they turn into young adults and will have all the same distractions the lads have today,

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The majority of winter season games were played in the same weeks the summer games are played, it's proven as fact that young lads will miss a good proportion of games due to other commitments during the summer which have been listed many times, The selling point originally amongst others, is that it would improve the standards, it would take a brave man to argue the case the standards have improved if you consider how many different players are used during the course of the season just to turn a side out.

What you need to realise is that the young kids who are currently enjoying playing in the summer, Believe it are not they turn into young adults and will have all the same distractions the lads have today,

lads who are making up the numbers may play more in the winter as there is nothing else to do granted...but that is why teams have a squad with A sides....

for me A sides should be in a reserve league...

also you say a lot of the games are played at the same weeks as the old season....therefore any distractions would be as before....hence you cant use distractions as an excuse.....

finally other than cricket all other sports do not play in the summer and therefore there is scope to attract new players from other sports....

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lads who are making up the numbers may play more in the winter as there is nothing else to do granted...but that is why teams have a squad with A sides....

for me A sides should be in a reserve league...

also you say a lot of the games are played at the same weeks as the old season....therefore any distractions would be as before....hence you cant use distractions as an excuse.....

finally other than cricket all other sports do not play in the summer and therefore there is scope to attract new players from other sports....

 

Or maybe that in itself tells its own tale and the theory you have just highlighted is nothing more than the biggest white elephant in the history of our sport!!!

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Looks like barbecues, stag dos and festivals are spread to November:

 

Premier Division
Fryston Warriors 30   0 Thornhill Trojans
Sharlston Rovers 50   10 Queensbury
Upton 30   0 Illingworth
West Bowling 28   22 Queens
 
Championship One Division
Allerton Bywater 14 22 Brotherton Bulldogs
Bentley Good Companions P   P Morley Borough
Dewsbury Moor 38   4 Batley Boys
Doncaster Toll Bar 84 4 Kings Cross Park
New Earswick All Blacks 30   0 Newsome Panthers
 
Division One
Methley Royals 28   10 Cutsyke Raiders
Stainland Stags 26   12 Boothtown Terriers
Victoria Rangers 38   36 Sharlston Rovers A  
 
Division Two
Kellingley Welfare 4 26 Underbank Rangers
Wibsey Warriors 46   6 Littleborough  
 
Division Three
Clayton P   P Crigglestone All Blacks
Woodhouse Warriors 36 28 Stanningley
 
Division Four
Dewsbury Celtic 42   12 West Bowling A
Eastmoor Dragons 52   0 Wortley Dragons  
Emley Moor 22   28 Crofton Cougars  
 
Division Five
East Leeds 20   34 Ovenden  
Slaithwaite Saracens 30   0 Moorends Thorne Marauders
 
Division Six East
Ryhill Hammers 0 28 Dewsbury Moor A
 
Division Six West

Illingworth A P   P Victoria Rangers A

King Cross Park A 0   30 Cowling Harlequins

Meltham All Blacks 30   0 Clayton A

Queensbury B 0   72 Victoria Rangers A

Worth Village 46   1 Wyke A

 

 

12 out of 36 games called off, a third, and this just 2 months into the season.

 

 

Now this is a very sad state of affairs but it also thoroughly debunks the calls for a return to winter. In the North West it's worse with only one fixture going ahead this weekend and Clock Face Miners going from mid table premier division to not being able to raise a team.

Edited by bowes

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Now this is a very sad state of affairs but it also thoroughly debunks the calls for a return to winter. In the North West it's worse with only one fixture going ahead this weekend and Clock Face Miners going from mid table premier division to not being able to raise a team.

 

I don't think it debunks the calls to return to winter, just like I don't think the games missed in summer are a killer blow to the summer game.

 

I do think it helps show the absurdity of having the game split it such a way.  Both winter and summer are suffering.  Choose a season, buckle down and make it work. 

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Out of 12 games called off some are postponed presumably due to the weather?

Two of the walk overs are due to Thornhill going to the NCL and Illingworth not happy about being promoted

The split into winter or summer has split the game and ruined both winter and summer clubs. Participation as in many sports is significantly reduced and all the time BARLA/ RFL won't sort things out

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I know that some of the games listed PP are from a club not raising a team and some also didn't last week. But yeah the disputes are a part of the problem.

Needless to say neither summer nor winter is a solution to games being called off but everyone playing one season under one governing body would be beneficial

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Please let's get away from the Winter/Summer debate.

The NCL teams will start in January pre season training

First game 1st week in Febuary, last game November for some of the premier clubs, admitted lack of fixtures in the lower leagues, talk of a break in August, Yorkshire youth teams and Hull already do this and it does not work, NW don't do this and it don't work.

We entered a team in the merit summer to play 8 fixtures, through no fault of our own we only completed 6

There were games in the Hull league yesterday postponed due to flooded pitches, this has also happened in the summer.

The National Cup is a farce, the replacement NCL cup is a farce.

Neither season is working and as said at the detriment of the other with both supporting each other, in the main with the same players.

No credible under 17-18 leagues most of these players are now playing A team rugby or first team at the lower clubs

The game in the heartlands is on the decline outside of the heartlands virtually non existent, these clubs have mainly only played the summer version if it were that good why as David Gent once said "you will have that many players you won't know what to do with them" we have now had 3 years of so-called summer where is the dramatic turnaround in participation, the winter game was on the decline, has this been reversed?

The RFL still pushing the new primary short sided games with a lot of coaches unhappy, 13 registered players playing in London, numbers in Yorkshire and the North West but how many of these have been attracted by the new concept?

Speak to the majority of coaches and volunteers and most seem to think the change has been a big mistake but I don't know what the RFL have done to scare clubs but in public and at meetings nothing is said

There will always be a game but with an elite number of clubs the RFL hope standards will increase with these elite clubs but if the players are not there due to a smaller pool standards will decrease, clubs do not have the money to travel out of town just to play games.

What could happen if the dual registration takes place with extra games being played and players being registered with the Pro-Clubs, all the so called elite clubs with have no players so game may not take place

The RFL in their new delivery plan have pledged £11 million to growing the game, £4+ million in embedded the pathway, where is this coming from and where is it going to be spent and who by?

As I keep saying we are a minority sport with rounders having more participants, and their game is not on Sky with a Professional game, WHY do the RFL think everything is rosey

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The game in the heartlands is on the decline outside of the heartlands virtually non existent, these clubs have mainly only played the summer version if it were that good why as David Gent once said "you will have that many players you won't know what to do with them" we have now had 3 years of so-called summer where is the dramatic turnaround in participation, the winter game was on the decline, has this been reversed?

 

David Gent also said, to expect some collateral damage - what he didn't predict was the resultant epidemic in reduction of clubs and players 
 

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I don't see how you can blame the summer game for the demise of the clubs that stayed winter. I still think withdrawing development officers has a lot to answer for

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Once there was a considerable summer switch, the RFL no longer needed the development officers

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Bowes you just don't seem to get it, nobody has said the game was not in decline in the old traditional season, I agree the reduction in development officers has not helped but there have still been people in Yorkshire, Lancashire, Midlands, North East and London, as well as semi pro clubs out of the heartlands, being watched I may add by 1-200 people at the most, you used to get more than that at an NCL game before the switch, but the whole point of changing was to increase players, clubs, volunteers, revenue, playing standards, less call offs I am sorry to say the game is in more of a mess than ever.

As I said earlier we don't have an all game cup competition, which makes the whole game weaker and more devided, are the winners of the Pennine being allowed in the Challenge Cup now the league have signed the operational rules,nobody seems to want to comment on the £11 million pound committed by the RFL till 2017 to increase participation or the £4 million for the pathway project, where is it coming from, where is it going to be spent and who by?

Why do we have 2 governing bodies in the RFL and BARLA who seem to not want to comment and how is it rounders has more participants without the funding the RFL gets and no professional game or publisicity that is provided by Sky and the BBC

Edited by Defender1

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Once there was a considerable summer switch, the RFL no longer needed the development officers

Nothing to do with playing season they just unfortunately coincided. It is to do with the Sport England cuts that are based on decreased participation over the last few years of winter, which meant the RFL could no longer afford them. The game outside the heartlands' decline is exclusively down to the removal of development officers (as there's no season switch to factor in).

 

Summer hasn't expanded the game but the vast majority of clubs switching back to winter have been wiped out by it, so a return to winter would be the final nail in the coffin rather than a solution. The game needs to consolidate its resources into one governing body and one playing season and consolidate struggling clubs into fewer, much stronger clubs

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We have one governing body don't we?

The RFL and the Chair of BARLA who sits on the Community Board they make the decisions for the Amateur game, so two bodies but one end result.

Since the appointment of the new chair of BARLA there has been little or no negative comments against the RFL as used to be the case, she is also a leading light in the Pennine, conspiracy theory's spring to mind

Edited by Defender1

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Nothing to do with playing season they just unfortunately coincided. It is to do with the Sport England cuts that are based on decreased participation over the last few years of winter, which meant the RFL could no longer afford them. The game outside the heartlands' decline is exclusively down to the removal of development officers (as there's no season switch to factor in).

 

Summer hasn't expanded the game but the vast majority of clubs switching back to winter have been wiped out by it, so a return to winter would be the final nail in the coffin rather than a solution. The game needs to consolidate its resources into one governing body and one playing season and consolidate struggling clubs into fewer, much stronger clubs

 

We have one governing body don't we?

The RFL and the Chair of BARLA who sits on the Community Board they make the decisions for the Amateur game, so two bodies but one end result.

Since the appointment of the new chair of BARLA there has been little or no negative comments against the RFL as used to be the case, also a leading light in the Pennine, conspiracy theory's spring to mind

The game has had one governing body for around a decade now following the Genesis report - paid for by the RFL - which concluded that the RFL should be the sole governing body.

 

The current BARLA hasn't made one decision in her year and a half term, they are made for her by the RFL

Edited by Nev V Dawn

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The game has had one governing body for around a decade now following the Genesis report - paid for by the RFL - which concluded that the RFL should be the sole governing body.

 

The current BARLA hasn't made one decision in her year and a half term, they are made for her by the RFL

Sorry to say (As it ain't good for the game) but you are right!!

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Unification as not worked full stop , and one of the biggest reasons is the RFL do not subscribe to democracy .

They don't want us the administrators to discuss plans with our clubs all meeting documents are marked private and confidential if it's for the good of the game why can't plans be open and transparent .

Voting rights are now stacked in the RFL s favour so every policy gets pushed through because the RFL appoint the sub committees who are encouraged to make individual decisions without going back it the leagues and clubs approval .

Barla board members are living in cloud cuckoo land as they do not see that they have failed the amateur game , I asked one board member to compare the strength of the organisation when he first joined the board and it's present strength , still waiting for a reply .

The only way forward IMO is for a new amateur body to be created break away from the RFL and approach all the countries clubs to re invent an organisation run by the clubs for the clubs .

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The Operational Rules springs to mind, this is unfortunately what we said could happen and why initially BARLA were against them. Some people will say we need one governing body but when they don't listen to the clubs and in the main are making the wrong decisions or won't listen to reason what chance does the game have.

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Nothing to do with playing season they just unfortunately coincided. It is to do with the Sport England cuts that are based on decreased participation over the last few years of winter, which meant the RFL could no longer afford them. The game outside the heartlands' decline is exclusively down to the removal of development officers (as there's no season switch to factor in).

 

Summer hasn't expanded the game but the vast majority of clubs switching back to winter have been wiped out by it, so a return to winter would be the final nail in the coffin rather than a solution. The game needs to consolidate its resources into one governing body and one playing season and consolidate struggling clubs into fewer, much stronger clubs

 

Amazing coincidence

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What do the clubs want?

BTW the development officers both heartland and non heartland could and should be funded by the RFL even without Sports England funding but they chose to fund other things

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Unification as not worked full stop , and one of the biggest reasons is the RFL do not subscribe to democracy .

They don't want us the administrators to discuss plans with our clubs all meeting documents are marked private and confidential if it's for the good of the game why can't plans be open and transparent .

 

 

Neither has the summer "experiment"

 

Your league got it right some seasons ago with the winter break.

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It really is a coincidence. If anything the plans to cut development officers, but not implementation of it, preceded the move to summer.

But it's total lunacy to suggest the RFL wanted to fund the amateur game in the winter but not in the summer. If anything it would be the other way round.

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The development officers were cut long after the start of summer amateur rugby

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It really is a coincidence. If anything the plans to cut development officers, but not implementation of it, preceded the move to summer.

But it's total lunacy to suggest the RFL wanted to fund the amateur game in the winter but not in the summer. If anything it would be the other way round.

 

As stated - amazing coincidence.

 

By the way, the RFL have not and will never fund the amateur game; summer, winter or anywhere in-between, there only interest is what they can get from the amateurs

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As stated - amazing coincidence.

By the way, the RFL have not and will never fund the amateur game; summer, winter or anywhere in-between, there only interest is what they can get from the amateurs

What incentive would the RFL have to find development officers for clubs in winter but not in their preferred summer season? I might buy conspiracies if they cut funding for winter but not for summer. The cut is entirely down to Sport England.

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