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Kenilworth Tiger

Wakefield

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It appears the 400K is not to be competitive in 2014 , but to get you through Sept & Oct 2013.

 

My understanding Tim Smiths sale to Salford last week, was to capitalise the club to pay the wages for last month:- next month? The sale of other players and possibly Kirmond hasn't been discounted.

 

I do not rejoice in Wakefield predicament as is it a troubling time for both Players & fans soon after you had seemed have stepped on with decent performances & increasing gates in 2012.

 

My understanding is the RFL assisted the recent HMRC Winding up Petition & Elston/ Glover had borrowed against next years ticket income,   so I wouldn't rejoice as it sounds like there's a hard slog ahead.

Long hard slog for sure & we're skint, but a least this guy says he's not going to make it worse. There is enough money around Wakey and a new stadium on the way to ensure that a properly run Wakey could be competitive in Super League, but only if it is run sensibly. The U19s academy for example is great and should mean a consistent supply of talent for the first team and to sell (!) for years to come.

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. It's pretty obvious, to me anyway, that the price of £125 for a season ticket represented half price of this season's normal match day admission through the turnstiles.

Bit of a back track there Terry.

So STs weren't sold at half price, they were promoted as saving the purchaser 50% on walk up prices over the season.

Walk up would cost a person about £260. I'm sure, with hindsight, that the current £180 is much more realistic, but the club had to build up a committed supporter base first and the £125 deal was part of that process.

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It appears the 400K is not to be competitive in 2014 , but to get you through Sept & Oct 2013.

 

My understanding Tim Smiths sale to Salford last week, was to capitalise the club to pay the wages for last month:- next month? The sale of other players and possibly Kirmond hasn't been discounted.

 

I do not rejoice in Wakefield predicament as is it a troubling time for both Players & fans soon after you had seemed have stepped on with decent performances & increasing gates in 2012.

 

My understanding is the RFL assisted the recent HMRC Winding up Petition & Elston/ Glover had borrowed against next years ticket income,   so I wouldn't rejoice as it sounds like there's a hard slog ahead.

 

Eventually the penny will drop and the RFL and the SL powerbrokers will get the message that the game in this country is not big enough to sustain full time professionalism at more than three or four clubs and plans will have to be formulated to operate at a greatly reduced wage level or even a semi pro structure for the majority of the game including many in SL.

 

Wakefield 3 times, Castleford, Bradford once and still struggling, Salford, Crusaders. soon I suspect London, Hull KR are or have recently been in financial straights trying to maintain full time professionalism. It is a desirable aim but seems a leap too far for many of our clubs.

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Fantastic news for Wakey from today's press conference. The club will at last be run like a proper business with expenditure capped to not exceed income. "It's not rocket science" says new Chairman!

Season tickets have been too cheap and some players overpaid. The £400k quoted is the extra money Wakey need to be competitive in SL 2014. The squad we have will be what we can afford and we're aming to avoid relegation in 2014. If we do go down, we'll look to get back at the earliest opportunity, but we're not going to spend what we haven't got.

Hallelujah - at last!

http://wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news/investment-will-prevent-player-sales-says-carter/2013/09/

i hope he can live up to his word. Its all well and good saying we wont spend what we havent got, but the clubs will have to set their budgets before they get ticket and merchandise income in.

if performances suffer and crowds dip suddenly there is a gap in budget. The only way to avoid this is set your budget based on guaranteed income, and i suspect it would be almost impossible to put a strong team out without gate and merchandise uncome throughout the year.

Him saying - its not rocket science, does he think he is the cleverest chairman in the world of sport?

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i hope he can live up to his word. Its all well and good saying we wont spend what we havent got, but the clubs will have to set their budgets before they get ticket and merchandise income in.

if performances suffer and crowds dip suddenly there is a gap in budget. The only way to avoid this is set your budget based on guaranteed income, and i suspect it would be almost impossible to put a strong team out without gate and merchandise uncome throughout the year.

Him saying - its not rocket science, does he think he is the cleverest chairman in the world of sport?

 

No idea, but it always amazes me how many 'successful' businessmen go stupid once they get control of a sporting club. All businesses set budgets on predicted income, rather than guaranteed income. Nowt wrong with that, just need someone who can operate a calculator and can set realistic budgets. Interesting that he said commercial income this year was £400k and they were budgeting on £600k next year. No idea if that is realistic, but on soccer 'transfer deadline day', shows how cheap/poor our sport is in comparison. Also shows, you don't need massive amounts of money to make a real go of rugby league.

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No idea, but it always amazes me how many 'successful' businessmen go stupid once they get control of a sporting club. All businesses set budgets on predicted income, rather than guaranteed income. Nowt wrong with that, just need someone who can operate a calculator and can set realistic budgets. Interesting that he said commercial income this year was £400k and they were budgeting on £600k next year. No idea if that is realistic, but on soccer 'transfer deadline day', shows how cheap/poor our sport is in comparison. Also shows, you don't need massive amounts of money to make a real go of rugby league.

so the risk is that commercial income doesnr deliver and a few bad performances see crowds drop by 1k per week. This is the kind of thing that suddenly leaves a huge gap in a budget - maybe around £400k.

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It might not be rocket science, but once the fans are screaming for new signings as the team slips down the league and relegation looms - fiscal reality will walk.

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so the risk is that commercial income doesnr deliver and a few bad performances see crowds drop by 1k per week. This is the kind of thing that suddenly leaves a huge gap in a budget - maybe around £400k.

 

I wouldn't have thought it was that hard to work out a budget. They know exactly how much gate income they have had this year. They should know what the breakdown was between season ticket sales, away tickets, kids, adults etc on the day. Not that hard to estimate what that might look like for 2014. With any budget, you set your budget and profile it with an element of risk, but you have to mange that risk.

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It might not be rocket science, but once the fans are screaming for new signings as the team slips down the league and relegation looms - fiscal reality will walk.

 

Well it shouldn't! If they have anything about them, they should run the club properly, not just pander to short-term goals.

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lol

yeah because that will keep the fans comeing through the turnstyles wont it?

its a vicious circle and the RFL are rushing to embrace it

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lol

yeah because that will keep the fans comeing through the turnstyles wont it?

its a vicious circle and the RFL are rushing to embrace it

 

If you have to go bust to "keep the fans coming through the turnstiles" why bother trying to get those extra fans? No point spending £30 to get a fan coming though the turnstile at £20 is there? Doesn't seem like much of future.

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I wouldn't have thought it was that hard to work out a budget. They know exactly how much gate income they have had this year. They should know what the breakdown was between season ticket sales, away tickets, kids, adults etc on the day. Not that hard to estimate what that might look like for 2014. With any budget, you set your budget and profile it with an element of risk, but you have to mange that risk.

the problem is that RL turnovers are so low that even a minor incident can cause a massive issue.

Bad weather, a sponsor going bust, a couple of injuries meaning underperformance - all of these things can easily happen and can soon add up.

The only way to manage the risk is to set a budget at a very conservative levels, that usually doesnt please fans.

I hope he is as clever as his pr suggests, I like Wakefield but I hope he understands the challenge thath, the game and all clubs face.

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If you have to go bust to "keep the fans coming through the turnstiles" why bother trying to get those extra fans? No point spending £30 to get a fan coming though the turnstile at £20 is there? Doesn't seem like much of future.

Yeah, and how many clubs have gone bust over the years to avoid relegation or win promotion on those economics?

Wakey 3 times at least.

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Apparently the the Scottish Wildcat will be extinct within a few years, very unfortunate choice of nickname.

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Apparently the the Scottish Wildcat will be extinct within a few years, very unfortunate choice of nickname.

 

What 'Scottish'?

 

:)

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Eventually the penny will drop and the RFL and the SL powerbrokers will get the message that the game in this country is not big enough to sustain full time professionalism at more than three or four clubs and plans will have to be formulated to operate at a greatly reduced wage level or even a semi pro structure for the majority of the game including many in SL.

 

Wakefield 3 times, Castleford, Bradford once and still struggling, Salford, Crusaders. soon I suspect London, Hull KR are or have recently been in financial straights trying to maintain full time professionalism. It is a desirable aim but seems a leap too far for many of our clubs.

 

 

How dare you. Every thing is all well and good in S/L. As you well know its the levels below S/L that are struggling.

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I think they are probably my second team and if warrington went out of existence I'd support them. They remind me of wire 10 years ago,battling against all the odds. Thing us wakey were the same too and whilst wire have turned it around they haven't. Shame but we can't let them die. A proud history and some great players. And win or lose I've had some fantastic days in the duke of york pub near the ground with the very friendly pub regulars!

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What 'Scottish'?

:)

As in from Scotland, it lives in the highlands and interbreeding with domestic cats is threatening its exsitence.

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As in from Scotland, it lives in the highlands and interbreeding with domestic cats is threatening its exsitence.

Pussies the lot of 'em

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If you have to go bust to "keep the fans coming through the turnstiles" why bother trying to get those extra fans? No point spending £30 to get a fan coming though the turnstile at £20 is there? Doesn't seem like much of future.

If it was left to RL fans that is exactly what we would be doing tbh. How often do we hear fans asking for TV advertising and all sorts of promotion, irrespective of how much it costs and the return you get!

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I think they are probably my second team and if warrington went out of existence I'd support them. They remind me of wire 10 years ago,battling against all the odds. Thing us wakey were the same too and whilst wire have turned it around they haven't. Shame but we can't let them die. A proud history and some great players. And win or lose I've had some fantastic days in the duke of york pub near the ground with the very friendly pub regulars!

Wire turned it around by relieving them of Nathan Wood & Ben Westwood, then later Ryan Atkins.., Leeds helped out by taking Gareth Ellis, Now we're helping them through a crisis by giving Tim Smith a home , I suppose  at least they got some cash.

Expect Amour , Aiton , Kirmond , Cockayne, Collis to follow with Wigan , Leeds, Saints,  Hull . KR & Salford circling if the stop gap investment is not forthcomming. such was the case with Salford last season.

Until there is enough revenue from Sponsors, TV or every club has wealthy backers it will be so.     

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Wire turned it around by relieving them of Nathan Wood & Ben Westwood, then later Ryan Atkins.., Leeds helped out by taking Gareth Ellis, Now we're helping them through a crisis by giving Tim Smith a home , I suppose  at least they got some cash.

Expect Amour , Aiton , Kirmond , Cockayne, Collis to follow with Wigan , Leeds, Saints,  Hull . KR & Salford circling if the stop gap investment is not forthcomming. such was the case with Salford last season.

Until there is enough revenue from Sponsors, TV or every club has wealthy backers it will be so.

If clubs are well run they have much more chance of attracting investors. Either that or go totally belly up for someone to buy it & start again. If Wakey start to be run well and money is put in to ensure the ground, the academy, the finances etc etc are all run well, it makes the club much more attractive to a wealthy backer who wants to be associated with a successful sports club. The sums involved are not massive when you consider how much rich individuals chuck around in other sports like soccer.

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