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Larry the Leit

Will Rugby League ever be popular in Huddersfield?

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Huddersfield were getting 2-3,000 in 2003, now they are getting around 6-7,000 regularly and got 8,700 yesterday. How can that not be deemed a success? The club has spent much of the previous 40 right down in the lower reaches of the old second division. When I was a kid, Huddersfield were right down there with Blackpool, Huyton and Doncaster.

 

If they win the GF, they might get 8,000-9,000 over the next year or so. In 2-3 years they may hit 10k. How is this not a success story?

Why quote yesterday's gate to support your point? The home game when they were likely to be presented with the LLS is hardly indicative of the true position. Why not quote the gates against Widnes (4,270), Hull (5,536) or St. Helens (a surprisingly low 5263)?

When, exactly, do they get 'around 6 to 7000 regularly'? Aaah, you're using the word 'regularly' to mean 'when the big teams (Wigan, Leeds, Bulls, Warrington) come and bring their fans'. These are the only 4 SL gates over 6000 they've had this season, besides yesterday's.

2-3000 in 2003. 5-6000 now when winning the league. Success? Could be interpreted as very poor growth considering. Only about 3000 extra people turning up. Does this seem comparable to their improvement in league position?

Lastly, they 'might get 10k'. Equally, they might not.

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Last season we averaged around 8k

This season almost every single club has seen a drop in attendances (mainly due to the wider financial situation)

And lets not forget all season every one has been waiting for the Giants to fail.

As for the Widnes and Hull games, when were they played? What were the wider factors going on - and why have so many teams stopped bringing their fans with them?

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it was very popular 118 years ago...

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Out of interest just what IS the prize for having the best home support?

I assume its something special? Bigger than the Grand Final to some I'd assume from the comments on here

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Why quote yesterday's gate to support your point? The home game when they were likely to be presented with the LLS is hardly indicative of the true position. Why not quote the gates against Widnes (4,270), Hull (5,536) or St. Helens (a surprisingly low 5263)?

When, exactly, do they get 'around 6 to 7000 regularly'? Aaah, you're using the word 'regularly' to mean 'when the big teams (Wigan, Leeds, Bulls, Warrington) come and bring their fans'. These are the only 4 SL gates over 6000 they've had this season, besides yesterday's.

2-3000 in 2003. 5-6000 now when winning the league. Success? Could be interpreted as very poor growth considering. Only about 3000 extra people turning up. Does this seem comparable to their improvement in league position?

Lastly, they 'might get 10k'. Equally, they might not.

 

What is Huddersfield's average attendance this season? You seem to have all the figures. I don't have the figures but I would anticipate it being 6-7,000. That's why they call it average. HTH.

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Last season we averaged around 8kThis season almost every single club has seen a drop in attendances (mainly due to the wider financial situation)And lets not forget all season every one has been waiting for the Giants to fail.As for the Widnes and Hull games, when were they played? What were the wider factors going on - and why have so many teams stopped bringing their fans with them?

I don't see what point you're making. We can only speculate on why attendances are generally lower this season. It might be finances, or it might be that the standard of play has been generally so poor. Focussing on the Widnes and Hull games is a red herring. The majority of your home games attracted less than 6000. I just happened to select the 3 that I did as examples. It could have been almost any.

The OP's question was will Huddersfield ever be well supported. I haven't seen any evidence that they will so far. Despite far more success than they have had for decades (and I too remember Fartown in the mid 70s) their average attendance is fairly disappointing and there's no evidence that it will continue to improve. Ths could well be saturation, I.e. it has plateaued and won't go any higher. We'll see.

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The OP's question was will Huddersfield ever be well supported. I haven't seen any evidence that they will so far. Despite far more success than they have had for decades (and I too remember Fartown in the mid 70s) their average attendance is fairly disappointing and there's no evidence that it will continue to improve. Ths could well be saturation, I.e. it has plateaued and won't go any higher. We'll see.

 

Broke the 7000 in.....

 

2007   7083

2008   7846

2009   7641

2010   7233

2011   7147

2012   7709

2013   6368

 

No other way to put it than dissapointing

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What is Huddersfield's average attendance this season? You seem to have all the figures. I don't have the figures but I would anticipate it being 6-7,000. That's why they call it average. HTH.

'Average' refers to any measure of the mid-point in a set of data and could refer to either the mean (6368), mode (not applicable to this data) or median (5641). With this particular set of data I would suggest that the median is arguably the most appropriate as the mean of 6368 has only been exceeded 5 times in the 13 home games so is not a true mid point (though it is valid, of course) whereas the median has 6 totals above it and 6 below, so could be thought to represent a more accurate mid point.

Hope this helps you.

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Huddersfield are truly a disgrace, they have always been a disgrace, they were a disgrace when they propped the league up, they are a disgrace now they have finally won something,. Their ground at Fartown was a disgrace for being old and decrepit, the new ground is a disgrace because it is too big and soulless, They are a complete disgrace for having a wealthy chairman who obviously cares about Rugby league, not to mention having tripled their gates in about 10/12 years.

 Thank heaven It's not the Wire ,Wigan, Leeds ,Hull and Saints fans who have been so generous in their congratulations who think so. There are always going to be the Larry's and the wollo's to poor score on anybody who gets a bit of success, They would be a lot better worrying about Wakeys present situation than about the Giants crowd, But then again Wakey's problems are bound to be down to the Giants in some way.

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Broke the 7000 in.....

 

2007   7083

2008   7846

2009   7641

2010   7233

2011   7147

2012   7709

2013   6368

 

No other way to put it than dissapointing

Thank you. I speculated that attendances may have plateaued when in fact attendances have consistently fallen from their 2008 peak every year apart from the single anomaly in 2012. Most illuminating. So I think we can safely conclude that Huddersfield's attendances are not improving despite increasing on field success and we have the answer to the OP's question.

So, how do we explain why attendances bucked the clear trend in 2012, when there was a 'wider financial situation' apparently?

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Huddersfield are truly a disgrace, they have always been a disgrace, they were a disgrace when they propped the league up, they are a disgrace now they have finally won something,. Their ground at Fartown was a disgrace for being old and decrepit, the new ground is a disgrace because it is too big and soulless, They are a complete disgrace for having a wealthy chairman who obviously cares about Rugby league, not to mention having tripled their gates in about 10/12 years.

 Thank heaven It's not the Wire ,Wigan, Leeds ,Hull and Saints fans who have been so generous in their congratulations who think so. There are always going to be the Larry's and the wollo's to poor score on anybody who gets a bit of success, They would be a lot better worrying about Wakeys present situation than about the Giants crowd, But then again Wakey's problems are bound to be down to the Giants in some way.[/

No one us saying any of this and you're overreacting. The OP's question was will rugby league in Huddersfield ever be popular. Using the Giants' crowds as a metric for this (and I assume that was the gist of the question), it would suggest not.

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'Average' refers to any measure of the mid-point in a set of data and could refer to either the mean (6368), mode (not applicable to this data) or median (5641). With this particular set of data I would suggest that the median is arguably the most appropriate as the mean of 6368 has only been exceeded 5 times in the 13 home games so is not a true mid point (though it is valid, of course) whereas the median has 6 totals above it and 6 below, so could be thought to represent a more accurate mid point.

Hope this helps you.

 

I'm sure you could give us lots of other examples where RL attendances have been published on the median measure? The Rothman's editions offer us all mean, median and mode averages I'm sure.

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Huddersfield are truly a disgrace, they have always been a disgrace, they were a disgrace when they propped the league up, they are a disgrace now they have finally won something,. Their ground at Fartown was a disgrace for being old and decrepit, the new ground is a disgrace because it is too big and soulless, They are a complete disgrace for having a wealthy chairman who obviously cares about Rugby league, not to mention having tripled their gates in about 10/12 years.

 Thank heaven It's not the Wire ,Wigan, Leeds ,Hull and Saints fans who have been so generous in their congratulations who think so. There are always going to be the Larry's and the wollo's to poor score on anybody who gets a bit of success, They would be a lot better worrying about Wakeys present situation than about the Giants crowd, But then again Wakey's problems are bound to be down to the Giants in some way.[/

No one us saying any of this and you're overreacting. The OP's question was will rugby league in Huddersfield ever be popular. Using the Giants' crowds as a metric for this (and I assume that was the gist of the question), it would suggest not.

 

They haven't won anything in 60-odd years. How do we know what Huddersfield will be averaging if they win a couple of back-to-back GFs or a challenge cup? To say it won't ever be popular is ridiculous. We don't know how it will kick on with a period of major success. They have sat at 6-7k for a few years. The whole game has been saying Huddersfield will bottle it every year for the last 5 years. On that basis, it has pretty much gone to script. It will take the town a little while to come to terms with the fact that this could be a golden era for the club.

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But not as good as the huge attendances when they were a top side post WW2. What is your point ? Their attendances are dropping because of a lack of success in comparison to what they were pulling in when they were dominating SL.

Nobody's attendances are what they were post WW2, even for most soccer teams, so what is your point? Let me guess it has something to do with having a dig at Bradford :rolleyes:

Give it a bleeding rest.

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So having won nothing in 60 years

Having been the whipping boys of the league for years

Having failed to deliver on the pitch for a decade - especially so in the last couple of years

You say our support has plateaued - maybe that's because our advance up the league stalled, maybe now the fans will come back

But remind me again - what's the prize for having the biggest crowd?

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All this focus on attendance at super league  as if its the fundamental area to focus on and when improved it will fix the issues of monies I find slightly amusing.   If we compare with the top league in Rugby Union (Aviva) we are not that much different from their fan base attendance. Yet they are able to sustain a salary cap of between 4.2million and 4.7million depending upon the academy credits.  A huge financial difference.

 

If you consider in the Aviva that in the last current season the top 3 teams average approx. 20,000 the other 9 teams average approx10,000. 

In SL the top 3 averaged 15,000 with the other 11 averaging approx 9000 and that includes the London Bronco drag. (last season gates)

So here we have amongst most of the teams in both top rugby league's a difference of 1000.  

 

Yep, that 1000 will make a difference. But not to sustain a salary cap of 1.7m in SL to 4m in the Aviva RU.

 

Lets not forget that one could argue the geographical spread in England RU Aviva league is not that much different from our M62 corridor, although with Newcastle being promoted that slightly changes.

 

The fundamental difference are the central funding from the RFU, demographics of fan base  plus the Heineken Cup. But the major difference is the RFU funding, which of course comes from the huge international game and everything that comes from that exposure.... and thus desire from sponsorship and commercial aspects.

 

In my opinion we suffer from our historical indifference to representative rugby and will never compete until that changes, if it can ever change.

 

All the tinkering in the world with the league structure will hardly dent the fundamental issue irrespective of any positive increase in the overall product attracting increased attendance.

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They haven't won anything in 60-odd years. How do we know what Huddersfield will be averaging if they win a couple of back-to-back GFs or a challenge cup? To say it won't ever be popular is ridiculous. We don't know how it will kick on with a period of major success. They have sat at 6-7k for a few years. The whole game has been saying Huddersfield will bottle it every year for the last 5 years. On that basis, it has pretty much gone to script. It will take the town a little while to come to terms with the fact that this could be a golden era for the club.

Quite possibly. However, we can't answer a question by speculating on what might happen in the future. All we can do is look at the evidence as it stands. A crude examination of the data that is available now shows us that Huddersfield's attendances have been dropping year on year for the 7 year period between 2007 and 2013, apart from one anomalous data point in 2012. That is fact, not opinion. Whether that changes can only be educated guesswork. Points were made by other posters about factors that might affect attendances. Performances probably are one of them, the stadium appears to be another major factor. Huddersfield have an excellent stadium already and have just won the league, so growth in attendances due to those has already been built in to their current attendance figures. It seems reasonable to assume, therefore, that further significant growth is unlikely and that's my best guess. Consistently competing for trophies may cause this to change but, as I posted earlier, people who start going to games because the team begins winning things, tend to drop away when that's no longer the case.

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Huddersfield are truly a disgrace, they have always been a disgrace, they were a disgrace when they propped the league up, they are a disgrace now they have finally won something,. Their ground at Fartown was a disgrace for being old and decrepit, the new ground is a disgrace because it is too big and soulless, They are a complete disgrace for having a wealthy chairman who obviously cares about Rugby league, not to mention having tripled their gates in about 10/12 years.

 Thank heaven It's not the Wire ,Wigan, Leeds ,Hull and Saints fans who have been so generous in their congratulations who think so. There are always going to be the Larry's and the wollo's to poor score on anybody who gets a bit of success, They would be a lot better worrying about Wakeys present situation than about the Giants crowd, But then again Wakey's problems are bound to be down to the Giants in some way.[/

No one us saying any of this and you're overreacting. The OP's question was will rugby league in Huddersfield ever be popular. Using the Giants' crowds as a metric for this (and I assume that was the gist of the question), it would suggest not.

 

What are you using as your definition of success. Londons 1800, Salford's 2000, a similar 7,000 at Hull KR, 6000 at Widnes, 6000 at Castleford. Based on those Huddersfield's crowds are decent. They should be better but the failures in the Cup Finals and the collapse last year have made the fans leerie of jumping on the bandwagon. As  several posters including myself have speculated, if they pull off a grand final win this season, it could be the spark that makes The Giants successful again in the home of the game.

 

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Nobody's attendances are what they were post WW2, even for most soccer teams, so what is your point? Let me guess it has something to do with having a dig at Bradford :rolleyes:

Give it a bleeding rest.

 

No I was referencing a different era in Bradford's history as were you when you referred back to the title winning sides of Peter Fox era who could only pull in 5 to 6000. In fact my example demonstrates the point I was making which is that crowds follow success. Bradford's massive post war crowds fell to a few hundreds by 1962 after years of failure. Bradford's SL era crowds similarly have dropped by almost half following their decline from the giddy heights of Sl superpower to the status of also rans.

 

If it's any consolation to you the same thing has happened at Keighley thanks to a little help from their friends.

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I'm sure you could give us lots of other examples where RL attendances have been published on the median measure? The Rothman's editions offer us all mean, median and mode averages I'm sure.

You asked me what the average was. I answered you. Actually though, you didn't ever refer to the Giants getting an 'average' of 6-7000 this year. You said they 'regularly got 6-7000'. This is incorrect. More accurately they got 8-9000 for 3 SL games, 7-8000 for 2, 6-7000 for none, 5-6000 for 7 and 4-5000 for 1. So, they don't regularly get 6-7000. They haven't got this figure once all season. They in fact regularly get 5-6000 and less regularly get 7000 plus.

PS. I don't have any Rothman's yearbooks. I just looked at Huddersfield's website and worked it out.

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Quite possibly. However, we can't answer a question by speculating on what might happen in the future. All we can do is look at the evidence as it stands. A crude examination of the data that is available now shows us that Huddersfield's attendances have been dropping year on year for the 7 year period between 2007 and 2013, apart from one anomalous data point in 2012. That is fact, not opinion. Whether that changes can only be educated guesswork. Points were made by other posters about factors that might affect attendances. Performances probably are one of them, the stadium appears to be another major factor. Huddersfield have an excellent stadium already and have just won the league, so growth in attendances due to those has already been built in to their current attendance figures. It seems reasonable to assume, therefore, that further significant growth is unlikely and that's my best guess. Consistently competing for trophies may cause this to change but, as I posted earlier, people who start going to games because the team begins winning things, tend to drop away when that's no longer the case.

 

You are going round in circles. The thread says will RL ever be popular in Huddersfield? The argument is that in 60-plus years they have won b****r all. They have averaged 6-7k while winning b****r all (and disappointing the fans each year). If the next 3-4 years is a golden era for the club then they may average 8-10k maybe even 10k+. So the answer is it might with some tangible success. That's it.

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I was going to ask "what is the acceptable crowd level"

Do the giants think its good enough? No

Have they worked hard to build? Yes

Has it been thwarted? Yes

Fwiw 2009 was a massive, massive missed oppertunity for the Giants - a few comparatve seasons and 3rd in the league then - if they had actually won that cup final I suspect very much it would be the catalyst to have lifted us like it lifted Warrington

Alas it wasn't to be and in the following seasons the wheels falling off became the norm

This season is a stepping stone, we've put 60 years of ghosts to rest, and I think pulled back in the missing fans from last season

Compare to 2/3 of the league we are on a par, to stick to the top table we need better crowds - wining the LLS is a companant in that

Coming in for grief from the bitter and jealous is another part I guess

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All this focus on attendance at super league  as if its the fundamental area to focus on and when improved it will fix the issues of monies I find slightly amusing.   If we compare with the top league in Rugby Union (Aviva) we are not that much different from their fan base attendance. Yet they are able to sustain a salary cap of between 4.2million and 4.7million depending upon the academy credits.  A huge financial difference.

 

If you consider in the Aviva that in the last current season the top 3 teams average approx. 20,000 the other 9 teams average approx10,000. 

In SL the top 3 averaged 15,000 with the other 11 averaging approx 9000 and that includes the London Bronco drag. (last season gates)

So here we have amongst most of the teams in both top rugby league's a difference of 1000.  

 

Yep, that 1000 will make a difference. But not to sustain a salary cap of 1.7m in SL to 4m in the Aviva RU.

 

Lets not forget that one could argue the geographical spread in England RU Aviva league is not that much different from our M62 corridor, although with Newcastle being promoted that slightly changes.

 

The fundamental difference are the central funding from the RFU, demographics of fan base  plus the Heineken Cup. But the major difference is the RFU funding, which of course comes from the huge international game and everything that comes from that exposure.... and thus desire from sponsorship and commercial aspects.

 

In my opinion we suffer from our historical indifference to representative rugby and will never compete until that changes, if it can ever change.

 

All the tinkering in the world with the league structure will hardly dent the fundamental issue irrespective of any positive increase in the overall product attracting increased attendance.

 

You definitely have a point and the importance if the World Cup being a massive success is a starting point to changing that indifference and magnifying the importance of our international game.

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What are you using as your definition of success. Londons 1800, Salford's 2000, a similar 7,000 at Hull KR, 6000 at Widnes, 6000 at Castleford. Based on those Huddersfield's crowds are decent. They should be better but the failures in the Cup Finals and the collapse last year have made the fans leerie of jumping on the bandwagon. As several posters including myself have speculated, if they pull off a grand final win this season, it could be the spark that makes The Giants successful again in the home of the game.

I have not mentioned 'success' per se. That's not the point of the OP. It was a question about whether Huddersfield's attendances will significantly rise. We don't know. They might. As might Salford's, London's etc. if they won it.

You appear to be suggesting that disappointing defeat in a cup final might have turned spectators away? Are you serious? Only one team wins any trophy. Are the rest all losers then? So, following the same logic, if Huddersfield beat Leeds twice (probably what they'll have to do) and get to the GF this year, then lose, then we might expect their attendance to fall below this year's median of 5687? I wish my team, York, could experience similar disappointing defeats!

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You asked me what the average was. I answered you. Actually though, you didn't ever refer to the Giants getting an 'average' of 6-7000 this year. You said they 'regularly got 6-7000'. This is incorrect. More accurately they got 8-9000 for 3 SL games, 7-8000 for 2, 6-7000 for none, 5-6000 for 7 and 4-5000 for 1. So, they don't regularly get 6-7000. They haven't got this figure once all season. They in fact regularly get 5-6000 and less regularly get 7000 plus.

PS. I don't have any Rothman's yearbooks. I just looked at Huddersfield's website and worked it out.

 

Okay so you are happy to quote another poster highlighting an average of around 7k for the last six years. I would at least have thought you would have tried to ascertain the median on these figures before quoting them to make your point  :rolleyes:

 

I would be pretty sure that they will have regularly got crowds of 6-7k over those last few years. Where did I say regularly 6-7k 'this year'? See a quote from my post below. 

 

Huddersfield were getting 2-3,000 in 2003, now they are getting around 6-7,000 regularly and got 8,700 yesterday

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