Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

JohnM

Another cyclist-killer escapes proper punishment

80 posts in this topic

Oh, are we doing this here?  I've just added it the other thread.

 

But to add something here - it's still light in Oxford in May at the time of the crash.  So the comment about lights and reflectors is needless victim-blaming from the chomping driver.

 

Still, he probably feels really really sad and cyclists need training to avoid drivers who really need a sandwich whilst piloting a vehicle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apologies, you have fallen into my " no lights " trap that was intended for others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, are we doing this here? I've just added it the other thread.

But to add something here - it's still light in Oxford in May at the time of the crash. So the comment about lights and reflectors is needless victim-blaming from the chomping driver.

Still, he probably feels really really sad and cyclists need training to avoid drivers who really need a sandwich whilst piloting a vehicle.

Yes when I read this I checked the sunset times and in The NW of England the sun sets at 21:00 in May so it would still be light

So to anyone on the other thread who would question a draconian custodial sentence for a 'momentary lapse in concentration' to justify their stance again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are cyclists who do court danger during the night. When travelling to work on a dark, winter's night and with the street lights switched off to save energy, I came across cyclists wearing dark clothing and with no bike lights. Also, one particular road was shaded in trees, making it even more dangerous for the cyclist. I must admit to seeing a cyclist at the last minute and frightening thinking what might have been.  I suppose one could blame the council for cost-cutting if an accident happened. 

 

This debate could go on and on, but at the end of the day both cyclists and motorists do cause accidents. I do recall a motorists in North Wales killing several cyclists but never heard of the outcome! 

 

As for sentencing, they can be open to criticism and not always what one would expect. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I do recall a motorists in North Wales killing several cyclists but never heard of the outcome! 

 

He got a fine for having a bald tyre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He got a fine for having a bald tyre.

 

Having just looked it up, the road was covered in ice, so making it even more dangerous with a bald tyre. Out of interest, what do you think the sentence should have been? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are cyclists who do court danger during the night. When travelling to work on a dark, winter's night and with the street lights switched off to save energy, I came across cyclists wearing dark clothing and with no bike lights. Also, one particular road was shaded in trees, making it even more dangerous for the cyclist. I must admit to seeing a cyclist at the last minute and frightening thinking what might have been.  I suppose one could blame the council for cost-cutting if an accident happened. 

 

This debate could go on and on, but at the end of the day both cyclists and motorists do cause accidents. I do recall a motorists in North Wales killing several cyclists but never heard of the outcome! 

 

As for sentencing, they can be open to criticism and not always what one would expect.

So all pedestrians should carry lights and wear bright clothing at night, just in case they want to cross the road?

I agree cycling at night without lights is foolhardy, but does that give anyone the right to run them down?

I really now cannot see the problem motorists have, if they concentrate more then the roads will be a lot safer. But no far better to blame the victims and suggest that they need more training or they can expect the death penalty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will there ever be thread on this subject where everyone can come to the agreement that neither cyclists or motorists are 100% innocent?

 

I doubt it; the hyperbolic language usually carries the day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So all pedestrians should carry lights and wear bright clothing at night, just in case they want to cross the road?

I agree cycling at night without lights is foolhardy, but does that give anyone the right to run them down?

I really now cannot see the problem motorists have, if they concentrate more then the roads will be a lot safer. But no far better to blame the victims and suggest that they need more training or they can expect the death penalty.

 

So what would you say if motorists travelled at night without lights? Foolhardy! Imagine a cyclist travelling along a narrow, winding country lane without lights, I'd say it's more than foolhardy and courting trouble. 

 

As for pedestrians, some do wear those yellow jackets when walking to work in an unlit, out of town road. 

 

Also, I have never said that it's right to run someone down, the fact is accidents do happen, no matter who is at fault. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will there ever be thread on this subject where everyone can come to the agreement that neither cyclists or motorists are 100% innocent?

 

I doubt it; the hyperbolic language usually carries the day.

 

Like I've said on another thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what would you say if motorists travelled at night without lights? Foolhardy! Imagine a cyclist travelling along a narrow, winding country lane without lights, I'd say it's more than foolhardy and courting trouble. 

 

As for pedestrians, some do wear those yellow jackets when walking to work in an unlit, out of town road. 

 

Also, I have never said that it's right to run someone down, the fact is accidents do happen, no matter who is at fault. 

 

Ray, in this particular case, it wasn't dark.   In legal terms, is lighting up time still in force? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighting-up_time

 

I realise we are concerned here not with the legalities but with what makes sense to reduce vulnerability and risk. However, I believe that it is incumbent on all of us to obey the law as that is ( supposed to be) the foundation on which our society is built.

 

Sure, some cyclists break the law  sometimes in quite foolhardy circumstances and that is wrong. It is also sensible for cyclists to do their reasonable best to reduce their exposure. 

 

 

However, until the mass of motorists start to show much more respect for the law, and the police and CPS show some determination to enforce and prosecute, then cycle killing will continue to increase

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A pedestrian, cyclist, man with 10 sheep etc has a right to use the highway. It just happens that the motor vehicle is in such a majority that many drivers think have a right of way over others. In all circumstances the law will apply rather than mob rule, and equally common sense has no legal position. A car driver therefore must be prepared for the unexpected and eating a sandwhich hardly qualifies as prepared.

......and unless I am wrong it's common sense to wear bright clothing but it is not a legal requirement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However, until the mass of motorists start to show much more respect for the law, and the police and CPS show some determination to enforce and prosecute, then cycle killing will continue to increase

I think I could have just +1'd this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ray, in this particular case, it wasn't dark.   In legal terms, is lighting up time still in force? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighting-up_time

 

I realise we are concerned here not with the legalities but with what makes sense to reduce vulnerability and risk. However, I believe that it is incumbent on all of us to obey the law as that is ( supposed to be) the foundation on which our society is built.

 

Sure, some cyclists break the law  sometimes in quite foolhardy circumstances and that is wrong. It is also sensible for cyclists to do their reasonable best to reduce their exposure. 

 

 

However, until the mass of motorists start to show much more respect for the law, and the police and CPS show some determination to enforce and prosecute, then cycle killing will continue to increase

 

John, I did understand, I was just pointing out what I had experienced. I have been hit three times from behind by cyclists when walking on the pavement. I once witnessed a near-miss after a cyclist when through lights on red. Other idiots zig zag and cycle on one wheel when out on the road. 

 

Cycles nowadays have many safety features, as well as cyclists wearing flashing lights on their jackets. Nothing is guaranteed, but it makes sense to take precautions. A cyclist is far more exposed to danger than a pedestrian crossing the road. That said, I have seen pedestrians crossing the road near to a crossing with control lights. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So all pedestrians should carry lights and wear bright clothing at night, just in case they want to cross the road?

 

 

Highway Code recommends exactly that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is interesting. Denmark has increased fines for cycling through a red light, riding on the pavement, riding no-handed, cycling without lights or using a mobile phone when cycling. I have seen a lorry driver on the motorway motion with both hands whilst talking on his hands-free mobile phone.  :sleep:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm on tour with my band, this week in The Netherlands. Whilst acknowledging that there are far more cyclist about, the general care and attention of the road users in respect of them is noticeably different to the UK.

People also appear to respect the speed limit, and the motorways are a joy to drive on compared to the aggressive testosterone fuelled battlegrounds of the network in the UK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually hit a cyclist at 4.30am this morning, no lights, he ran the lights at a junction, (bradford road to grange road link, at the junction where Mr Smiths pub is) black clothes including a black hat, after the obvious shock of this annoying person appearing 2 yards in front of me and hitting him head on at about 15-20 mph i was suprised that he only had a gravel rash and damaged pride and bent bike, i absolutly ripped into him and kicked his ###### all over the road after he told me it was my fault for not looking, it was all witnessed by 3 other car drivers, police were called and this was arrested, this is probaly the 5-6th time ive come across this in the last month or so

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually hit a cyclist at 4.30am this morning, no lights, he ran the lights at a junction, (bradford road to grange road link, at the junction where Mr Smiths pub is) black clothes including a black hat, after the obvious shock of this annoying person appearing 2 yards in front of me and hitting him head on at about 15-20 mph i was suprised that he only had a gravel rash and damaged pride and bent bike, i absolutly ripped into him and kicked his ###### all over the road after he told me it was my fault for not looking, it was all witnessed by 3 other car drivers, police were called and this ###### was arrested, this is probaly the 5-6th time ive come across this ###### in the last month or so

Well done in getting the police to act on an obvious deviation from the law.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ###### hate these threads. If we say all cyclists are the same and all drivers are the same the we'll get nowhere.

There is good and bad on both sides

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ###### hate these threads. If we say all cyclists are the same and all drivers are the same the we'll get nowhere.

There is good and bad on both sides

 

 

bloody liberal!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually hit a cyclist at 4.30am this morning, no lights, he ran the lights at a junction, (bradford road to grange road link, at the junction where Mr Smiths pub is) black clothes including a black hat, after the obvious shock of this annoying person appearing 2 yards in front of me and hitting him head on at about 15-20 mph i was suprised that he only had a gravel rash and damaged pride and bent bike, i absolutly ripped into him and kicked his ###### all over the road after he told me it was my fault for not looking, it was all witnessed by 3 other car drivers, police were called and this ###### was arrested, this is probaly the 5-6th time ive come across this ###### in the last month or so

Just forwarded this post to the police.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.