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South Wakefield Sharks

Does London need a top-class Super League club? (Merged Threads)

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Is it time for pro RL within the M25 to regroup and consolidate? A single, strong London RL entity playing Championship rugby at New River Stadium might be the best option until another Koukash can be found.

Interesting listening to Hector McNeil on "Rugby League Down South" saying that London needs to consolidate its resources, daft to have Broncos, Skolars & RFL development staff in three different places in London. Said that the time wasn't right for Broncos to move to New River Stadium now. Said the strategy needs to be to have a London team at Super League, Championship & Championship 1 level. Said he can't see why the RFL don't get that, although maybe them being miles away in Leeds explains things a bit!

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I tend to look at this forum often but have never posted before but thought i would to allay some fears on this matter.

 

One of my friends at RFL informed me that there will be a new owner of Broncos next year, taking over from David Hughes. The club will still be around, at the Hive, whether that remains in Super League or Championship remains to be decided.

 

The new owner is looking to run it more sustainably, which is the way any business should be run, however that will also mean that gone are the days of spending mega bucks on Aussies. I can only see it as a positive to rebuild with a London core, however the proof will be in the pudding as to how successful it is, and more importantly how successful the new owner can run the club, as clearly the structure/setup is the most important aspect, which has been severley lacking in Hughes' era.

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Interesting listening to Hector McNeil on "Rugby League Down South" saying that London needs to consolidate its resources, daft to have Broncos, Skolars & RFL development staff in three different places in London. Said that the time wasn't right for Broncos to move to New River Stadium now. Said the strategy needs to be to have a London team at Super League, Championship & Championship 1 level. Said he can't see why the RFL don't get that, although maybe them being miles away in Leeds explains things a bit!

Hector has been saying this for a long time (I've been saying it for even longer). It's the only viable and sustainable long term option in my opinion

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There's no point merging clubs if they can be run sustainably as separate entities, which is what the move to Barnet should do for Broncos. There's no point having the Bronco's at New River, as there would be nothing to distinguish them from Skolars.

 

Moving to Barnet, which is near enough to New River, as separate entities, would help the sharing of resources, development staff etc and you could then look to build a rugby league hub in North London from Broncos, Skolars and Hemel

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I tend to look at this forum often but have never posted before but thought i would to allay some fears on this matter.

 

One of my friends at RFL informed me that there will be a new owner of Broncos next year, taking over from David Hughes. The club will still be around, at the Hive, whether that remains in Super League or Championship remains to be decided.

 

The new owner is looking to run it more sustainably, which is the way any business should be run, however that will also mean that gone are the days of spending mega bucks on Aussies. I can only see it as a positive to rebuild with a London core, however the proof will be in the pudding as to how successful it is, and more importantly how successful the new owner can run the club, as clearly the structure/setup is the most important aspect, which has been severley lacking in Hughes' era.

There would appear to be some planning issues with The Hive (which is in Edgware, near Canons Park station on the Underground, for those who are interested). If these can be sorted out this, if it comes about, looks to be good news - my personal preference would be to drop into the Championship, as as it would enable the club to consolidate and, given a halfway decent season on the pitch, membership of SL2 in 2015. This is what NW Crusaders are looking to and is why they and a number of lower division clubs are keen on the proposed new structure.

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Ian Ramsdale reporting on Twitter that the RFL likely to take on responsibility for running a Rugby League academy in London in 2014. About chuffing time. Really exploiting the the playing potential in the south is in all our interests.

Obviously we all know southerners are softies, but out of 8m people we ought to be able to find a few tough enough to play the game at the top level, which can only help to increase the playing pool available to the national coach.

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My personal preference would be to drop into the Championship, as as it would enable the club to consolidate and, given a halfway decent season on the pitch, membership of SL2 in 2015. This is what NW Crusaders are looking to and is why they and a number of lower division clubs are keen on the proposed new structure.

Dropping to the championship would enable the club to operate on a much lower budget, and enable it to operate part time. It would also remove the SKY monies as they stand and it would remove all the professional players from the club, reduce crowds to around 1,000 and leave the academy devoid of a place to pursue the professional careers they are chasing and the game in general wants to see them achieve. That's not consolidation but decline.

From the championship both Broncos and Crusaders will "aspire" to Superleage 2015, but the reality will still remain could they really compete with the top championship clubs like Featherstone, Halifax and Sheffield let alone the other SL club who will take the drop - such as wakefield and four Superleague clubs like castleford, Bradford Salford and Widnes?

Not a chance for me unless they find someone with big money, and if London did find that person, then hanging onto the SL place has to be the better bet.

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Dropping to the championship would enable the club to operate on a much lower budget, and enable it to operate part time. It would also remove the SKY monies as they stand and it would remove all the professional players from the club, reduce crowds to around 1,000 and leave the academy devoid of a place to pursue the professional careers they are chasing and the game in general wants to see them achieve. That's not consolidation but decline.

From the championship both Broncos and Crusaders will "aspire" to Superleage 2015, but the reality will still remain could they really compete with the top championship clubs like Featherstone, Halifax and Sheffield let alone the other SL club who will take the drop - such as wakefield and four Superleague clubs like castleford, Bradford Salford and Widnes?

Not a chance for me unless they find someone with big money, and if London did find that person, then hanging onto the SL place has to be the better bet.

Spot on. Any London players who showed any talent will be picked off by SL teams just as they do now in CC and CC1 so a strong London team will never emerge. The inability to get Northern players to move South will not change either so they will be stuffed.

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Spot on. Any London players who showed any talent will be picked off by SL teams just as they do now in CC and CC1 so a strong London team will never emerge. The inability to get Northern players to move South will not change either so they will be stuffed.

The facts that seem to be overlooked is that attendances are heading below 1,000 anyway and Broncos have effectively closed down their academy. Maybe they could afford one as a Championship side.

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The facts that seem to be overlooked is that attendances are heading below 1,000 anyway and Broncos have effectively closed down their academy. Maybe they could afford one as a Championship side.

If recruitment restraints prevent them being competitive it will be one man and his dog. Even Northern fans will not put up with their team being crushed every week and we've had years of this now. After all the hoo ha about we must keep Bradford alive why are their supporters not backing the club in their hour of need? Its all about what happens on the pitch.

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If recruitment restraints prevent them being competitive it will be one man and his dog. Even Northern fans will not put up with their team being crushed every week and we've had years of this now. After all the hoo ha about we must keep Bradford alive why are their supporters not backing the club in their hour of need? Its all about what happens on the pitch.

If you can't be competitive in SL then logic dictates that you need to drop a division.

I don't really know what you mean about "recruitment restraints" unless you are talking about hiring loads of expensive Aussies that probably won't get visas. The problems with that are the strength of the Aussie economy and the attitude of the UKBA more than the RFL.

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The running of any club always comes back to the fan base and owners.

 

This is where the money comes from after all.

 

The RFL and wider RL community are not there to run or subsidize other clubs.

 

The drama over Bradford was that the club could go belly up mid-season.

 

The plan for SLE to take over the running at Bradford was a temporary measure only.  I would have expected the same from the RFL if London were going to fold pre-June.

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I don't really know what you mean about "recruitment restraints" unless you are talking about hiring loads of expensive Aussies that probably won't get visas.

The fact that living costs in London are massively higher than in the north. 70k will go alot further up north than in London, so they'll have to pay over the odds to get players of equivalent standard to relocate to London.

 

Whilst player development in London has obviously made huge strides in recent years, the production line still isn't producing them in the quantity or quality needed for a successful SL team. Plus, the best players will likely head to a bigger club up north where their wages will go further and they have greater chance of success.

 

I find it bizarre that people are surprised that London can spend up to the salary cap and not be competitive. To be able to compete with northern clubs they would probably need a salary cap of double what they currently get.

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What's the point? They clearly can't afford to pay the full cap (or anywhere near it) anyway. Double their cap and they won't be competitive anyway.

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What's the point? They clearly can't afford to pay the full cap (or anywhere near it) anyway. Double their cap and they won't be competitive anyway.

They are paying to the cap.

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They are paying to the cap.

Don't come here with facts.

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What's the point? They clearly can't afford to pay the full cap (or anywhere near it) anyway. Double their cap and they won't be competitive anyway.

These are the recruitment constraints that you were unclear about. A 3-bedroom house in London costs almost as much as a full salary cap.

 

For a London team to ever be successful in SL they would need a massive dispensation from the cap. The fact that they've never had this means that they've effectively been competing with one hand tied behind their back the past few years. The last time they were successful was back in the 1990s when they were stacked with antipodeans (which people moaned about) as the exchange rate was far more favourable, and the cost of housing was about 1/3 of what it is now. It's a bloody miracle they haven't folded years ago.

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These are the recruitment constraints that you were unclear about. A 3-bedroom house in London costs almost as much as a full salary cap.

 

For a London team to ever be successful in SL they would need a massive dispensation from the cap. The fact that they've never had this means that they've effectively been competing with one hand tied behind their back the past few years. The last time they were successful was back in the 1990s when they were stacked with antipodeans (which people moaned about) as the exchange rate was far more favourable, and the cost of housing was about 1/3 of what it is now. It's a bloody miracle they haven't folded years ago.

No, in their entire existence, they've only had one season that they claimed to be spending the full cap (this one).

Therefore having a higher salary cap would not have enabled them to be more competitive. If they did not have the money to spend the full cap then they could not have spent the "London cap" either.

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They are paying to the cap.

This season. Clearly they won't be next year. Whether you double or even treble the cap, it won't make any difference to how much they will be able to spend.

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I tend to look at this forum often but have never posted before but thought i would to allay some fears on this matter.

 

One of my friends at RFL informed me that there will be a new owner of Broncos next year, taking over from David Hughes. The club will still be around, at the Hive, whether that remains in Super League or Championship remains to be decided.

 

The new owner is looking to run it more sustainably, which is the way any business should be run, however that will also mean that gone are the days of spending mega bucks on Aussies. I can only see it as a positive to rebuild with a London core, however the proof will be in the pudding as to how successful it is, and more importantly how successful the new owner can run the club, as clearly the structure/setup is the most important aspect, which has been severley lacking in Hughes' era.

 

 

There's no point merging clubs if they can be run sustainably as separate entities, which is what the move to Barnet should do for Broncos. There's no point having the Bronco's at New River, as there would be nothing to distinguish them from Skolars.

 

Moving to Barnet, which is near enough to New River, as separate entities, would help the sharing of resources, development staff etc and you could then look to build a rugby league hub in North London from Broncos, Skolars and Hemel

 

Time for your debriefing Agent Double D7

 

The fact that David Hughes no longer bankrolls the club is self evident but as to the identity of this new owner please provide details on the following

 

If Anthony Kleanthous owner of Barnet FC was to take over London Broncos what would be in it for him. He is not known as a Rugby League fan and the only reason for a non-fan to take over would be for the club to act as a revenue stream and to be a revenue stream you have to be a Super League Club.

 

As for the Hive please answer the following:

  • Why has new of London Broncos arrival not appeared in any Barnet FC forum?
  • Why has neither of the local papers - that are pretty well informed on matters at the Hive - The Harrow Times and Harrow Observer mentioned the London Broncos?
  • Considering David Hughes could never get the club renamed Charlton Athletic FC and Mark Evans took flack from Quins fans over the proposed merger. Why would Anthony Kleanthous be any more likely not to face opposition to the perceived use of money taken from the Football Club to prop up an ailing RL outfit. After all its why Fulham FC divested itself of Fulham RL from Craven Cottage back in the 1980's.
  • How do you think the active residents group would react to Professional Rugby League joining non-league football at the Hive?
  • How do you think the Labour Councillors who have assidously backed the residents group in their successful opposition to Barnet FC's planning permission would react?
  • And what makes you believe it is within the terms of his lease that would allow Anthony Kleanthous to sub-let anyway for that matter?

On the sustainability model ,the Broncos brand is now so tarnished amongst its own fanbase what makes you think they would have a paying audience of four figures ?

 

Please explain how a side shorn of all overseas players and comprised mainly of reserve grade and youth players can seriously be considered as a Super League Club for 2014?.

 

If you are open to the prospect of sharing resources  with London Skolars then surely the logic of your position dictates that the Skolars should take over any remaining assets and instead of being frittered away and duplicated then the strength of RL in the capital should be concentrated in the one club with a view to getting into the 2015 - Top 24 and pushing on from there.

 

Finally Double D7  can you confirm you have proof that Wood and Rimmer as double agents and how many more are there at Red Hall ?

  

Ian Ramsdale reporting on Twitter that the RFL likely to take on responsibility for running a Rugby League academy in London in 2014. About chuffing time. Really exploiting the the playing potential in the south is in all our interests.

Obviously we all know southerners are softies, but out of 8m people we ought to be able to find a few tough enough to play the game at the top level, which can only help to increase the playing pool available to the national coach.

 

There are four Professional Rugby Union clubs that would love the RFL to set up an academy in London.  Has it not occured to anyone to think that given the choice of relocation to the north or the chance of a professional career in the South promising youngsters will opt for Union almost everytime.

 

As for soft southerners, I will be a quite a few World Cup Games and the Italy friendly travelling up to the fringe of the M62 which appears to be a bit more that soft Northern lads and lasses appear to be able to do . ;)

 

 .

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Don't come here with facts.

Do you dispute the fact that they can't afford to pay the full cap? I'd have thought the fact that they are letting almost all their first team players go along with the back office staff would be ample evidence.

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As for soft southerners, I will be a quite a few World Cup Games and the Italy friendly travelling up to the fringe of the M62 which appears to be a bit more that soft Northern lads and lasses appear to be able to do . ;)

 

 .

That's because they are tight, not soft!

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No, in their entire existence, they've only had one season that they claimed to be spending the full cap (this one).

Therefore having a higher salary cap would not have enabled them to be more competitive. If they did not have the money to spend the full cap then they could not have spent the "London cap" either.

For arguments sake, if they had a sugar daddy who could bankroll a full spend of a doubled salary cap, would you be in favour of an increased cap for London?

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The Broncos are preparing or life in the Championship and will never return to Super League. They will just become a feeder club for Super League clubs.

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