Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Bearman

What's going on at S.Wales Scorpions?

Recommended Posts

It's almost like 1908 again (or whenever) when fledgling clubs like ones in Wales withdrew due to travelling costs. Except in those days, you could understand it as being a real issue, whereas today it is just penny pinching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see why this is down to SL clubs, or why fans should have to pay to keep the Scirpions alive. What it simply comes down to us that their business model apparently isn't good enough. They knew how much money they were getting and haven't allocated it well enough.

You can't expect the RFL to prop them up but not help anyone else.

Their subsidies could come from the Welsh RL from profits in the RLWC. It Wigan if they want to keep the Welsh connection going. But to expect SL clubs to help pay for one mismanaged club is completely irrational and defeats what the main issues are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said.

 

I'm sure I remember though the RFL saying last season that travel costs for the CC1 clubs would be paid from central funds due to the wide geographical area involved in that league?  Maybe they withdrew that offer or took it off the previous central funding?

 

Either way it's a real shame that the Scorps feel the need to say these things.  The RFL has to back these clubs up.  The NRL did it with Melbourne and presumably the fans and other clubs down there accepted the special status.  If the RFL is worth the name governing body then it should be ensuring the outlying newbie clubs are sustained until they establish themselves. 

The C1 clubs DO get an allowance towards travel costs, which is on top of the central funding, though it won't cover those costs completely. South Wales have less travelling to do now than they did in previous seasons - trips to Cheltenham, Oxford & Hemel, rather than Barrow, Workington and Whitehaven,

Most clubs would expect to have to bring in some funding through sponsorship, rather than just rely on central funding.

 

Hope Scorpions get through the current problems, but their problems are far from unique.

The lack of any information about what happens to the clubs outside the elite 24 is not helping any of the clubs below that point to be able to plan and budget.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But to expect SL clubs to help pay for one mismanaged club is completely irrational and defeats what the main issues are.

 

It is harsh to say that they are mismanaged when the main issue is that their central funding has been reduced by 30% in one hit.

 

If Hull's TV monies were reduced by 30% from one season to the next I don't suppose they would find life too easy either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The lack of any information about what happens to the clubs outside the elite 24 is not helping any of the clubs below that point to be able to plan and budget.

 

This is one area where I think the priorities of the RFL are out of whack.  Instead of having a sensible think about whether giving X clubs the same amount of money is the best way of distributing it when each of those clubs will have different costs etc they're having a bonkers chat about a league set up that will help, at best, three clubs and haven't given any of the rest (top or bottom) any thought at all.

 

South Wales may not deserve extra funding but they surely deserve a governing body that has given them more than a passing thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The RFL are happy to waste money at SL level with Bradford and Crusaders and yet fail to look after development clubs in the Championships. The RFL wanted development clubs to come to the table and rightly so. But to cut their budgets and allow them to struggle  I fail to understand. I would rather the SL clubs got each 50K less and development clubs given the money to help them. The RFL some to often fail to realize how important and difficult things are outside SL especially for development clubs.

 

The RFL have to try to spread the game, and spread it they did. But it's no surprise that CC1 clubs are showing signs of struggle. In the real world the change from amateur to professional brings relatively massive costs and as we can see and as predicted these are travel costs and essential admin costs, with little left to pay players.

 

These aren't "development clubs" in terms of them turning pro and growing their businesses and riding up the leagues. The fact North Wales won CC1 had people talking about next stop Superleague. The next stop for clubs with such tiny budgets that part consist of handouts is an even tougher "business model" in the championship, where clubs without private money struggle badly like such as Hunslet, York and Barrow have done in recent years. The RFL set out not to create clubs that would grow to Superleague - that's financially absurd - They set out to have more clubs at a semi pro level around the country and they got there.

 

As for taking a penny off Superleague clubs to give to CC or CC1 clubs take that to it's ultimate communist position. Give all Sky and central funds and split that 37 ways each season. That will ensure the existence of all 37 clubs for a short while, but in the end you won't have professional RL to sell to SKY, you won't have 10K paying crowds, you won't have the top Rugby kids choosing league and the Dr. Koukash types will stick to racing. RL would be dead as a pro sport

 

Inevitably it comes back to Maurice Lyndsay's idea of getting all the resources into 14 clubs. Even that has been a struggle and only part worked so it's down to 12 next. The chap at Quins RU recommended ten clubs as the more workable model. Certainly trying to keep 37 clubs alive is a no brainer. Taking funds from clubs who attract money to give to clubs who swallow it up with no return is very bad business, but lovely sentiment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I reckon they'll be okay. The RFL don't have the cash to prop up a SL side based in one of the world's most expensive cities but they should be able to sort out a CC1 side based in South Wales. CC1 needs to be a priority if we are ever to have successful expansion.

The RFL have set a precedent by not helping London. They won't go back on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The RFL have to try to spread the game, and spread it they did. But it's no surprise that CC1 clubs are showing signs of struggle. In the real world the change from amateur to professional brings relatively massive costs and as we can see and as predicted these are travel costs and essential admin costs, with little left to pay players.

 

These aren't "development clubs" in terms of them turning pro and growing their businesses and riding up the leagues. The fact North Wales won CC1 had people talking about next stop Superleague. The next stop for clubs with such tiny budgets that part consist of handouts is an even tougher "business model" in the championship, where clubs without private money struggle badly like such as Hunslet, York and Barrow have done in recent years. The RFL set out not to create clubs that would grow to Superleague - that's financially absurd - They set out to have more clubs at a semi pro level around the country and they got there.

 

As for taking a penny off Superleague clubs to give to CC or CC1 clubs take that to it's ultimate communist position. Give all Sky and central funds and split that 37 ways each season. That will ensure the existence of all 37 clubs for a short while, but in the end you won't have professional RL to sell to SKY, you won't have 10K paying crowds, you won't have the top Rugby kids choosing league and the Dr. Koukash types will stick to racing. RL would be dead as a pro sport

 

Inevitably it comes back to Maurice Lyndsay's idea of getting all the resources into 14 clubs. Even that has been a struggle and only part worked so it's down to 12 next. The chap at Quins RU recommended ten clubs as the more workable model. Certainly trying to keep 37 clubs alive is a no brainer. Taking funds from clubs who attract money to give to clubs who swallow it up with no return is very bad business, but lovely sentiment.

Another OTT reply Parky. Has someone upset you? You always take the funding argument to the extreme. You are claiming that professional RL is ALL about SL, period. If the RFL want expansion then a scattergun approach isn't going to work. There has to be some concerted investment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was less about a levy, more about a bucket collection at the GF.  Hence why I said £1 from half the crowd would be enough.  I recognize that we need to be fair and can't subsidize one club more than others, but it is always a shame when a club is looking at folding. I don't want Broncos to fold either, but I would not suggest a subsidy. 

 

It is down to clubs to manage on the money given, but it's also a fair point that cuts of 30% are hard to account for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another OTT reply Parky. Has someone upset you? You always take the funding argument to the extreme. You are claiming that professional RL is ALL about SL, period. If the RFL want expansion then a scattergun approach isn't going to work. There has to be some concerted investment.

His whole world view is shattered. He has been banging on for years that Sky / the RFL insist on there being a London club in SL and it is becoming clear that this isn't true.

It's also the case that for years he has been arguing that organic growth outside SL isn't possible and then Crusaders go and win CC1 with decent crowds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The RFL have set a precedent by not helping London. They won't go back on it.

We don't know what help or advice was offered behind closed doors. I think the RFL would help London if they could (but they just don't have that kind of money).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't know what help or advice was offered behind closed doors. I think the RFL would help London if they could (but they just don't have that kind of money).

Yeah, right. In the absence of any evidence, make it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, right. In the absence of any evidence, make it up.

It's not made up that DH puts 2 million a year into Broncos and it's not enough to make them competitive. It's also not made up that the RFL don't have this kind of money.

Is that so hard to understand?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is harsh to say that they are mismanaged when the main issue is that their central funding has been reduced by 30% in one hit.

If Hull's TV monies were reduced by 30% from one season to the next I don't suppose they would find life too easy either.

Did they know they were taking a £30k hit (not %)?

The rest of the league appear to have planned accordingly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Parksider:

"The fact North Wales won CC1 had people talking about next stop Superleague."

 

Show me where anyone has said that.  Those who have supported Crusaders in SL and CH1 guises will certainly not be saying it. Weve had the fiasco of "withdrawing" from the SL francise and had to rebuild the club.  We love what we have now and don't want to lose it. We are also realistic and next season in the Championship will be extremely hard. The fans are talking of a season of consolidation with our aim to remain in the Championship and then see what restructure brings. There is no talk of SL by North Wales Crusaders or the fans.

 

Back on topic.  On discussing our application to joint CH1 with the RFL it was made clear that we would receive £100k in our first season and that this would drop to £70k for this season.  I assume that this was also make clear to Scorpions.  However I still think it would be remiss of us in Wales not to help out our fellow club when the get into difficulty.  If this means paying a couple of quid into a bucket or a fighting fund I would certainly contribute.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did they know they were taking a £30k hit (not %)?

The rest of the league appear to have planned accordingly.

 

£30,000 out of £100,000 is 30%.

 

I am afraid there are rumours about other clubs struggling and it appears further cuts are on the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you imagine how many buckets would be outside OT if every club short of a few grand in their budget set up camp there? I'm sorry, but like Bradford, it won't work. Professional RL clubs should not be run like a charity.

On that note, are there tax implications on money raised from bucket collections for non-charities? I'm a bit foggy in this area, but I've always been under the impression you can't just give a business £30k and the government not go "where's my slice?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

£30,000 out of £100,000 is 30%.

Fair point.

I am afraid there are rumours about other clubs struggling and it appears further cuts are on the way.

Which is why the whole bucket collection thing will not work and will not address any problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How can you just divvy up the money equally amongst the clubs. Surely some of the newer clubs will have more, or even unexpected expenses than one that has a lot less travelling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which is why the whole bucket collection thing will not work and will not address any problems.

 

I would agree with that. This is an area that needs proper leadership which I don't think CC1 is getting at the moment. CC1 and the bowl have been successful competitions this year yet no one knows what is to happen to CC1 and whether the bowl will actually be played again. The RFL has to decide whether it wants expansion or not. If it does it has to properly support it. The fact that there is talk that they want to ghettoise the development clubs into one separate league away from any relegated heartlands teams shows whose wellbeing is being prioritised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The RFL are happy to waste money at SL level with Bradford and Crusaders and yet fail to look after development clubs in the Championships. The RFL wanted development clubs to come to the table and rightly so. But to cut their budgets and allow them to struggle  I fail o understand. I would rather the SL clubs got each 50K less and development clubs including Sheffield, Doncaster, Gateshead and Cumbria given the money to help them. The RFL some to often fail to realize how important and diificult things are outside SL especially for development clubs.

 

 

Can you quantify just how much the RFL were "happy to waste" on Crusaders and Bradford?

 

All championship clubs, including my own, have known for a long time that there would be a reduction in central funding this year and have planned accordingly. I don't want to see the Scorpions disappear but why should they be a special case?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FFS, when is the entire game of rugby league in the UK going to have DECENT ADMINISTRATION ???????!!!!!!!!!

 

can someone at UK RL HQ get on the phone to someone like a John Quayle and get him to build up the game in the UK ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would agree with that. This is an area that needs proper leadership which I don't think CC1 is getting at the moment. CC1 and the bowl have been successful competitions this year yet no one knows what is to happen to CC1 and whether the bowl will actually be played again. The RFL has to decide whether it wants expansion or not. If it does it has to properly support it. The fact that there is talk that they want to ghettoise the development clubs into one separate league away from any relegated heartlands teams shows whose wellbeing is being prioritised.

Has there been talk of that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

All championship clubs, including my own, have known for a long time that there would be a reduction in central funding this year and have planned accordingly. I don't want to see the Scorpions disappear but why should they be a special case?

Because they are a special case.  All clubs new to the professional leagues are special cases: they're new. 

 

I really don't understand the myopic thinking of some rugby league fans. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



100 Days That Shook Rugby League

League Express - Every Monday

Rugby League World - Oct 2017