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walter sobchak

England's backs

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surely a place must be found in the starting 17 for stefan ratchford.......fantastic utility player.

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People were suggesting Briscoe earlier in the season, who I said hasn't been good enough. So no, I wouldn't and haven't.

.

Sorry just to add, that's kind of the opposite though isn't it, the question is more what you would have said if people were labelling Briscoe as average and not at all International class and a joke selection?

You would probably have issue with that even if you don't think he should be in the squad.

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The point is they haven't been nearly as bad as people point out. jJB especially has always given a good account if himself for England but for some reason it doesn't register, he has played aswell if not better than player like Ellis (for his country) but people see him as a joke along with Ablett.

You mention Briscoe I've never seen anyone suggest he simply isn't good enough just that he's had an off season (which im sure you'll agree with) Ablett and JJB have had great seasons for their club. Again I'm not saying they should be first choice for England but they are not a joke selection that people on here make out

These two are also joined by Wilkin. Do you think the same about him? Irrespective of him having to play at scrum half this season.

 

(The call for him to be dropped, similar to Jones-Buchanan and Ablett, has come for a few years now, before Jon had his stint at 7.)

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JJB and Ablett are joke selections

Both are good club men and good Superleague players but both have shown time and time again that they aren't international class, moreover their defensive frailties have left our centres exposed time and time again at international level

FWIW I don't think Farell has been good enough or consistent enough to be picked either

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JJB and Ablett are joke selections

Both are good club men and good Superleague players but both have shown time and time again that they aren't international class, moreover their defensive frailties have left our centres exposed time and time again at international level

FWIW I don't think Farell has been good enough or consistent enough to be picked either

Time and time again? Carl Abletts played for England 3 times and they've not lost a game with him playing.

You see Ant you're just blinkered against any Leeds player, admit it.

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Is the fact that JJB outplayed Liam Farrell in a game last week enough to warrant his continued presence in the England team?

The answer is no, of course it isn't.

No of course it isn't (although one off games often get cited for other players credentials) and if you read what I've posted I wouldn't have him in the team, its the 'joke selection' comments I have issue with.

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Time and time again? Carl Abletts played for England 3 times and they've not lost a game with him playing.

You see Ant you're just blinkered against any Leeds player, admit it.

Not in the least

Hall has to be nailed on for a wing spot

Watkins deserves a spot without a doubt

I'd take Hardacre as a back back as well

Etc etc

JJB and Ablett are also rans, nothing special

Sinfield is a legend for Leeds but is only at his best for Enland at 9 - and we have better 9s than him and as has been pointed out - he WILL be playing for England so almost certainly at 6

I think Burrows is the reason why Leeds won the final last year

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Not in the least

Hall has to be nailed on for a wing spot

Watkins deserves a spot without a doubt

I'd take Hardacre as a back back as well

Etc etc

JJB and Ablett are also rans, nothing special

Sinfield is a legend for Leeds but is only at his best for Enland at 9 - and we have better 9s than him and as has been pointed out - he WILL be playing for England so almost certainly at 6

I think Burrows is the reason why Leeds won the final last year

It's Burrow, and you are wrong, Sinfield is the reason we won the title last year his GF performance was immense.

You take back the time and time again comments about Ablett? Who had been a vet very important player for Leeds over the last few years.

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Also I don't get why people are so quick to have a go at JJB and Ablett, JJB gave Farrell a lesson in second row play last Thursday all this having just returned from a spell on the sidelines with an injury, Ablett has always produced the goods when it's mattered for Leeds. I'm not saying they should be first choice but to dismiss them as some kind of joke selection shows either club bias or a lack of knowledge of the game.

They are dismissed as joke selections as they should be no where near the squad, yet they always seem to appear.

People I'd rather have playing at second row than them two are: Danny Kirmond, Sean O Loughlin, Ben Westwood, Gareth Ellis, Brett Ferres, Joe Westerman, Ben Currie, John Bateman, Elliot Whitehead, Liam Farrell, Sam Burgess, Gareth Hock, Liam Watts, Ben Harrison.

It's not just Ablett and JJB, I consider Wilkin to be as much as a joke selection. They are solid club players yes but just do not have international quality about them. Then again, I must be the one with club bias blinding me in this debate.

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Posted · Hidden by John Drake, September 10, 2013 - No reason given

Well done mate. I think you managed to spell everyone's name right in that post, therefore avoiding the opportunity for pedantry.

It's double 't' at the end of Elliott for Mr Whitehead.

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Posted · Hidden by John Drake, September 10, 2013 - No reason given

Maybe not then.

:biggrin:

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Posted · Hidden by John Drake, September 10, 2013 - No reason given

Tosser.

Ouch.

 

The mean man in the internet called me names.

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wilkins career has been horribly mismanaged imo...hes a ball playing loose forward every day of the week......not a 2nd rower,scrumhalf etc....

rant over

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FWIW, as a Leeds fan, Ablett would be one of the 1st players I put on the team sheet every week. I get people don't rate him, and that's good for Leeds, because every day he turns up and puts in 100% and creates a hell of a lot for the rest of the team. IMO he is the most underated player in the league!

Would he be in my 17 for England? No, but he's not far off.

The reason he gets the stick is because of his lack of pace when he played centre and the fact he got picked as a centre for England. There aren't too many better players than him in a Rhinos jersey though.

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id have ablett in the squad fwiw....hes useful

 

I'd have him as water carrier. That's about all he's useful for.

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Like McIlorum, Ablett is too easily wound up and seemingly, like M Monaghan, can't take a tackle without throwing his arms about or even trying to poke people in the eyes. I'll almost bet my abode he'll have handbags with Bridge at a play the ball on Saturday.

 

It's lovely Leeds fans like him, but they'll be a dozen or so players around the league that people think should be in the England squad from their team such as; Kirmond, Harrison, Ferres, Walmsley, M Smith, Houghton, etc.

 

It's sometimes a case that average players look better in a good team.

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The average player argument doesn't hold up with Ablett though. Average players don't do the work he does at the efficiently he has. He is twice the player JJB is. It's hard to explain to fans who don't watch him every week though. Like I said, after JP, Sinfield and McGuire, Ablett would be the next on the sheet for me. His defence is brilliant. He has a great offload and rarely gets knocked back in the tackle. He is a ball handler too creates space for the people outside him. I just don't get where this "average" comes from.

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Statistically he's average. Would you class Liam Farrell as average who's stats are better then Abletts?

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The average player argument doesn't hold up with Ablett though. Average players don't do the work he does at the efficiently he has. He is twice the player JJB is. It's hard to explain to fans who don't watch him every week though. Like I said, after JP, Sinfield and McGuire, Ablett would be the next on the sheet for me. His defence is brilliant. He has a great offload and rarely gets knocked back in the tackle. He is a ball handler too creates space for the people outside him. I just don't get where this "average" comes from.

The things is, you're only comparing with Leeds - which you made clear - when compared with other England players I think he'd struggle - again you mentioned he wouldn't be in your England team - but also you mention McGuire and I don't think he'd be in the England side either. He may be one of your favourites (I don't think I'm out of line saying that from reading your recent posts) but there are other players in the league that are better. Without drawing too much comparison, Langley is a workhorse, so is Whiting, each have their own fan club but none are up to England standard. In fact I'd probably put Whiting as the "not far off" you describe Ablett with.

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Statistically he's average. Would you class Liam Farrell as average who's stats are better then Abletts?

 

Liam Farrell is average and would hardly raise a ripple if he was playing for a club in the bottom 4-5. Ablett and Farrell are squad men who could do a job in an injury crisis and nothing more.

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My argument isn't for England selection though, it's against the "average" tag, which he clearly isn't. Of course there are better out there. There are also different styles of players. Delaney is statically much better than Ablett too but I don't think he adds more to the Leeds team. In fact, IMHO Delaney is too one dimensional and offers little in attack for a wide running second row. I see his future up front. If Ablett was in anyone's team though that teams fans would have a totally different opinion of him.

As for the "favourite" thing, he actually isn't. That tag lays with McGuire and now Watkins :) I appreciate Ablett for what he does every week in the Leeds shirt though.

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They are dismissed as joke selections as they should be no where near the squad, yet they always seem to appear.

People I'd rather have playing at second row than them two are: Danny Kirmond, Sean O Loughlin, Ben Westwood, Gareth Ellis, Brett Ferres, Joe Westerman, Ben Currie, John Bateman, Elliot Whitehead, Liam Farrell, Sam Burgess, Gareth Hock, Liam Watts, Ben Harrison.

It's not just Ablett and JJB, I consider Wilkin to be as much as a joke selection. They are solid club players yes but just do not have international quality about them. Then again, I must be the one with club bias blinding me in this debate.

Westerman and Liam Watts,are you serious?

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