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Ackroman

Drunk Tanks

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I agree and a responsible attitude to serving alcohol works. Take the Ale Train, this degenerated into a big pizz up. So the pubs stopped serving lager and shots during the day and (allegedly) things have calmed down, and it has gone back to sensible drinker sampling the varied real ales on offer.

May someone on here who lives on this line can comment

 

I live on the Ale Trail line and thankfully, the changes have pretty much killed it off.  It's gone from hundreds of people dressed as bananas jumping in the river, back to how it started - a handful of beardy types enjoying some genuinely great beer in some really nice pubs.

 

It's been a while since anyone ###### through a letterbox or burst into an unsuspecting person's living room demanding a drink, so I think it's agreed that the changes have been successful.

 

I think the pubs made a lot of money over the past few years, but it had to stop - it was making the village a no-go area on a Saturday.  And given the apparent propensity for young drunk men dressed as Fred Flintstone to run across train tracks in front of express trains it was only going to be a matter of time before someone was killed.

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I agree and a responsible attitude to serving alcohol works. Take the Ale Train, this degenerated into a big pizz up. So the pubs stopped serving lager and shots during the day and (allegedly) things have calmed down, and it has gone back to sensible drinker sampling the varied real ales on offer.

 

 

To just add to this, the Ale Train was heavily promoted by the pubs involved (even though they took to denying this), and it was only when an orchestrated local campaign began to organise that they backed down and called it off.   They were making a lot of money out of the mayhem and I don't think they deserve too much credit in the matter given the extent that they allowed it to escalate in the first place.

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Easy bring back a set opening and closing times and make it £5 a can and £60 a bottle of wine/spirits from supermarkets.

 

Could not agree more.

 

High minimum pricing for off-licence sales, and strict application of the law for landlords who allow drunkenness on their premises.

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So with the Ale train the problem wasn't solved by rounding up the drunks and putting away for the night. It was solved by a concerted effort by the residents (backed by the council?) to rein in the licensed premises.

So here is an example if what to do. We digused from tunbrigde wells starts to rant. The solution is to put more pressure on the licensed trade to combat it.

There is a rider here in that it will impact the profits if the pubs and clubs, and they will use all their influence to put the blame on the drinker.

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Could not agree more.

High minimum pricing for off-licence sales, and strict application of the law for landlords who allow drunkenness on their premises.

Again, why punish the casual drinker who might enjoy a bottle with his meal or a few glasses on a Saturday night alongside the pass artists who go crazy?

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If someone who doesn't earn loads of money, wants to go for a couple of drinks with his wife or mates, why should it be put out of his price range because some others csnt handle their drink? Why not, (and this might sound draconian or something) punish the people who *do* cause the trouble properly instead of the joke slap on the wrist they get now?

 

I  agree entirely.  As I understood it though, there are no plans to penalise people in this way. I thought the idea was to dump the drunken louts in the tank  and make them pay.

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I agree entirely. As I understood it though, there are no plans to penalise people in this way. I thought the idea was to dump the drunken louts in the tank and make them pay.

Yes but all this will do is create profit for third parties . Either tell the police that keeping law and order is part of there job - what we pay out taxes for... OR tackle the problem with responsible sales of alcohol. Just treating the symptom will never solve the issue ( but it will make some people rich)

I don't think raising the price will solve this problem, it will only penalise those on lower incomes.

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Yes but all this will do is create profit for third parties . Either tell the police that keeping law and order is part of there job - what we pay out taxes for... OR tackle the problem with responsible sales of alcohol. Just treating the symptom will never solve the issue ( but it will make some people rich)

I don't think raising the price will solve this problem, it will only penalise those on lower incomes.

 

tell the police that keeping law and order is part of there job - what we pay out taxes for..

 

 

good luck with that approach!

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Again, why punish the casual drinker who might enjoy a bottle with his meal or a few glasses on a Saturday night alongside the pass artists who go crazy?

 

The casual drinker can have his casual drink in the pub.

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So with the Ale train the problem wasn't solved by rounding up the drunks and putting away for the night. It was solved by a concerted effort by the residents (backed by the council?) to rein in the licensed premises.

 

Exactly.

 

People who sell drink have a duty to sell it responsibly.  That is everyone from the landlord of your local club, right through to Tesco.

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If someone who doesn't earn loads of money, wants to go for a couple of drinks with his wife or mates, why should it be put out of his price range because some others csnt handle their drink? Why not, (and this might sound draconian or something) punish the people who *do* cause the trouble properly instead of the joke slap on the wrist they get now?

 

The problems with alcohol in this country are, as I understand it, the binge drinking on a weekend by people under 25 and the heavy regular drinking at home by middle aged people who slip into a habit of knocking back a bottle of wine a night.    On top of this, you have big problems in the pub industry.

 

I like pubs, I like to go to pubs.  I want pubs to still be around in 100 years.   The licensing laws should make it cheaper to buy a unit of alcohol in a pub than in a supermarket.

 

I totally agree that in a civilised world someone who doesn't earn a loads of money who wants to go for a couple of drinks with his wife or mates should be able to do just that.    That's why, if I were King, I'd set minimum alcohol pricing much higher for off-licence sales than on-licence.

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The casual drinker can have his casual drink in the pub.

At about a tenner a pint or whatever? Raising the prices (even more) will only hit the lower paid. Drinks are not exactly cheap in clubs today yet it doesn't stop young people hurling it down their necks. (And I don't mean drink all you can for a tenner style nights either)

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At about a tenner a pint or whatever? Raising the prices (even more) will only hit the lower paid. Drinks are not exactly cheap in clubs today yet it doesn't stop young people hurling it down their necks. (And I don't mean drink all you can for a tenner style nights either)

 

Have you actually read any of my comments on this thread?

 

At what point did I say "a tenner a pint"?      The average cost of a pint in a pub is about three quid now but in Sainsbury's you can buy a pint of Wifebeater Stella for about a quid.   To me, that's completely the wrong way round. 

 

Get the drinkers back into pubs by flexing the duty to make drinking at home expensive and drinking in pubs cheaper and then make the landlord responsible for keeping his pub properly, that's what should happen.

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Marauder said '£5 a can and £60 a bottle of wine/spirits' to which you strongly agreed. That would put it beyond the reach of almost everyone but it would not stop determined drinkers getting hammered on brasso or toilet duck. It would only stop the average punter drinking.

But I actually agree with you on the idea of being cheaper in pubs than shops.

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Marauder said '£5 a can and £60 a bottle of wine/spirits' to which you strongly agreed. That would put it beyond the reach of almost everyone but it would not stop determined drinkers getting hammered on brasso or toilet duck. It would only stop the average punter drinking.

But I actually agree with you on the idea of being cheaper in pubs than shops.

 

I do strongly agree with the concept - we can argue about the price points.  I'd actually like to see the cost of beer in a pub reduced.

 

When was the last time you bought a can of beer in a pub BTW?  

 

The Scottish are aiming for 50p per unit, which is about £15 for a bottle of spirits, and £4.50 for wine.   I see that as a reasonable minimum in a pub, and I'd drop the duty to help get it there.  

 

I'd go for £1 per unit in the off-licence trade and use duty to make it happen.   That would make the three litre box of teeth stripping plonk so beloved of middle class people about £40 or £50 a pop.    One happy side effect of this might be that people start drinking decent wine instead of rits pass because the price difference would be less.

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Have you actually read any of my comments on this thread?

 

At what point did I say "a tenner a pint"?      The average cost of a pint in a pub is about three quid now but in Sainsbury's you can buy a pint of Wifebeater Stella for about a quid.   To me, that's completely the wrong way round. 

 

Get the drinkers back into pubs by flexing the duty to make drinking at home expensive and drinking in pubs cheaper and then make the landlord responsible for keeping his pub properly, that's what should happen.

This is something I have suggested that CAMRA start to campaign on but they continually avoid this issue, why can't there be a higher duty for off sales.

Cheap shots etc in pubs is just as irresponsible as the supermarket offers, the difference with the supermarket offers is the consequences are always far away from the point of sale, therefore diluting the responsibility of the licensee.

Also I would like to return of alcohol being sold separately from the main food area. In the past if a supermarket sold alcohol it was in a separate area. The current system makes it all too easy to put a bottle or three of discounted wine in the trolley as you pass by. However the big supermarkets are to powerful politically and will stop anything that will affect their profits.

I've probably got more chance ask the the police to keep law and order.

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Marauder said '£5 a can and £60 a bottle of wine/spirits' to which you strongly agreed. That would put it beyond the reach of almost everyone but it would not stop determined drinkers getting hammered on brasso or toilet duck. It would only stop the average punter drinking.

 

 

Last point on this - people who drink Brasso are probably beyond help.  The real problem is people who think it's harmless to come home and drink a bottle of Echo Falls in front of the TV every night.

 

I very rarely drink at home, but that is unusual.  Most of my friends will sink 5-10 bottles a week between two people.

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I bought a can of crappy lager at the Willows for about £3 a couple of years back. No wonder it closed down.

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Last point on this - people who drink Brasso are probably beyond help. The real problem is people who think it's harmless to come home and drink a bottle of Echo Falls in front of the TV every night.

I very rarely drink at home, but that is unusual. Most of my friends will sink 5-10 bottles a week between two people.

I rarely drink at home now but used to drink quite a bit.

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Last point on this - people who drink Brasso are probably beyond help.  The real problem is people who think it's harmless to come home and drink a bottle of Echo Falls in front of the TV every night.

 

I very rarely drink at home, but that is unusual.  Most of my friends will sink 5-10 bottles a week between two people.

Is it really a problem?

They aren't the guys smashing up the town. If it is bad for their health then that's their risk to take.

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Is it really a problem?

They aren't the guys smashing up the town. If it is bad for their health then that's their risk to take.

 

And the rest of us to pay for...

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And the rest of us to pay for...

Where does that argument stop though?

Drinking? Self inflicted

Smoking? Self inflicted

Obese? Self inflicted

Broken leg/arm playing sport? Self inflicted

Stuck up a mountain or a pothole? Self inflicted

Etc etc

We all pay NI, so give us the treatment when we need it.

How much has the NHS wasted on IT systems or waste of space management?

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And the rest of us to pay for...

That's one of the reasons why alcohol is taxed quite heavily along with ciggies.

Doughnuts, on the hand, never seem to get brought up in this kind of argument.

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Is it really a problem?

They aren't the guys smashing up the town. If it is bad for their health then that's their risk to take.

I agree. There are 2 separate issues, one regarding our health and the other regarding the effects on society of selling and purchasing alcohol irresponsibly.

 

Unfortunately the government would rather lock us up than have a minimum price and sensible opening hours.

 

One other thing is that I don't believe buying cheap Stella in Asda is the problem. It's the cheap bottles of fake and smuggled vodka you get in corner shops.

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