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welshmagpie

Eddy Pettybourne called up for USA

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Would have thought he would have joined the Samoan squad given Asotasi's absence

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It's a FARCE.

While I am happy to see him in the flesh at Bristol from a Wigan persective, the US and Italy are taking the p___ with their approach to the tournament.

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It's a FARCE.

While I am happy to see him in the flesh at Bristol from a Wigan persective, the US and Italy are taking the p___ with their approach to the tournament.

How are Italy any worse than any other nation? All the players are Italian, their team is just as legit as Ireland, Scotland, Cook Islands, Tonga and Samoa.

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Yes the New Zealand born player who played for Samoa earlier this season against Tonga. I really dislike the whole American Samoa link to the USA.

http://www.rugbyleagueplanet.com/2013-rugby-league-world-cup/1249-eddy-pettybourne-joins-usa-tomahawks-rlwc2013-squad

Not sure why you dislike the link to the USA. American Samoa is separate from Samoa although they are in the same island chain. They have nothing to do with Samoa. 'Western Samoa' was a German colony, American Samoa was an American Territory. Western Samoa was then occupied by New Zealand before gaining independence.

People born in American Samoa – including those born on Swains Island – are American nationals, but are not American citizens unless one of their parents is a U.S. citizen.

In July 1997 the Constitution was amended to change the country's name from Western Samoa to Samoa (officially the "Independent State of Samoa"). Western Samoa had been known simply as Samoa in the United Nations since joining the organization in 1976. The neighboring U.S. territory of American Samoa protested the move, feeling that the change diminished its own Samoan identity. American Samoans still use the terms Western Samoa and Western Samoans.

They just share the name 'Samoa',

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They're all Italian, unlike the USA team where the vast majority of players are Aussies who qualify via residency, American Samoan parentage or other spurious means (like Clint Newton, born in the USA while his parents were there briefly but no actual links to the country).

 

If you meet anyone with Italian parentage or Italian family, they will identify as Italian. As far as I'm concerned, this is an Italian team. Also, the majority of those in the Italy squad are not ringers, and have been involved with Italy before in some capacity. The only difference between them and the likes of Samoa and Tonga is that those nations are more 'exotic' in sporting terms, and the players have a different skin pigment which makes it easier to identify them and associate them with those nations. But if you're taking issue with the Italian team then you really need to take issue with half the teams at the World Cup. And yes, they have included two players who currently play in Italy which is more than the likes of Scotland and the Cook Islands could manage.

 

The only issue with the Italy team is that FIRFL players were not considered. But there's no reason why nations shouldn't be allowed to select their strongest teams or should be criticized for doing so, especially when they will contribute to the competition as the Italy squad clearly will. It's understandable that the FIRFL want to try and draw comparisons with the USA situation but really there aren't any IMO. Italy had no real alternative but to select heritage players, and will likely have a very competitive team full of Italian players, even if they aren't first-generation Italians. USA had an alternative, and are likely to have an uncompetitive team filled with Australians who have no connection to the USA.

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And this time last year we played Rangi Chase and Chris Heighington for England who are in the same boat. Plus players like Widdop and Reed who were born in the Uk but moved overseas when very young - so we're no better.

Oh, and didn't we play Maurie Fassavalu as well for GB a few yrs bk?

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The thing that does my head in is that he (apparently, I've not checked this) played for Samoa THIS SEASON. I'm all for heritage players, fair enough. But once you have nailed your colours to the mast, that should be that. I can see the argument for allowing players to switch allegiance so that, let's say, an islander who chose to play for Aus/NZ can then change to an emerging nation once his star is fading (i.e. not good enough to get in the Aus/NZ team any more can still do a job for Fiji or Samoa), but the rules should be very strict indeed.

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Yes the New Zealand born player who played for Samoa earlier this season against Tonga. I really dislike the whole American Samoa link to the USA.

http://www.rugbyleagueplanet.com/2013-rugby-league-world-cup/1249-eddy-pettybourne-joins-usa-tomahawks-rlwc2013-squad

 

The issue isn't whether American Samoans should play for the USA (both the Netherlands and France, to my knowledge, call up players from "their" overseas bits to play for them in various sports for example) but that he's already played senior football for another country.

 

I don't care what the qualification rules are but one country for life should be the standard for any decent international set-up.

 

We're not cricket after all.

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And this time last year we played Rangi Chase and Chris Heighington for England who are in the same boat. Plus players like Widdop and Reed who were born in the Uk but moved overseas when very young - so we're no better.

Oh, and didn't we play Maurie Fassavalu as well for GB a few yrs bk?

 

Widdop only moved to Australia when he was 16 and is only 24 now. You can hardly put him in the same boat as all the others you mentioned. He lived in England twice as long as he has lived in Australia.

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As far as I can tell none of the Italian team are actually Italian.  An Italian parent or grandparent does not make them Italian if they weren't born there or they didn't live in Italy while they were growing up.

I don't think 2 England RL players (Chase & Heighington) who aren't English compares to whole teams who aren't the Nationality of the Nations they are playing for are the same.

It seems the 'Rebels' are causing more trouble in the US with spreading the word.  ;)

http://vanguardrugby.com/usa-tomahawks-world-cup-selection-controversy/

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Widdop only moved to Australia when he was 16 and is only 24 now. You can hardly put him in the same boat as all the others you mentioned. He lived in England twice as long as he has lived in Australia.

 

 

I've lived in England for  twice as long as I lived in Wales.

 

You'll be pleased to know that I will never be English.

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I've lived in England for  twice as long as I lived in Wales.

 

You'll be pleased to know that I will never be English.

 

Widdop is English though. As is Jack Reed.

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Identity is a complex social and a psychological construct. Because of this players can identify themselves as various things, including various nationalities. a player may be born in England, have an American parent and an Australian one, with grandparents from Scotland, or France or wherever. they may also live in Papua New Guinea ! their national identity is constructed from all the different places, and some maybe bigger parts of the identity than others. Why should a player not be able to play for ALL these countries if he so wishes? after all they 'belong' to all of them

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Identity is a complex social and a psychological construct. Because of this players can identify themselves as various things, including various nationalities. a player may be born in England, have an American parent and an Australian one, with grandparents from Scotland, or France or wherever. they may also live in Papua New Guinea ! their national identity is constructed from all the different places, and some maybe bigger parts of the identity than others. Why should a player not be able to play for ALL these countries if he so wishes? after all they 'belong' to all of them

 

They can identify as whatever they like, it doesn't make them so.

 

You think if it went to a vote that Italians - ones who are born and raised in Italy, not those with some vague ethnic or family connection to the place - would be happy with the majority of their squad coming from outside of Italy? Come off it. There's nothing complex about the fact that Italians would rather see Italians, not Australian-Italians and not Kiwi-Italians, representing their country.

 

It's the 21st century. The entire concept of international sport would be underminded if people were encouraged to pick and choose who they want to play for.

 

Are Italians and Americans(real ones) not allowed a say?

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They can identify as whatever they like, it doesn't make them so.

You think if it went to a vote that Italians - ones who are born and raised in Italy, not those with some vague ethnic or family connection to the place - would be happy with the majority of their squad coming from outside of Italy? Come off it. There's nothing complex about the fact that Italians would rather see Italians, not Australian-Italians and not Kiwi-Italians, representing their country.

It's the 21st century. The entire concept of international sport would be underminded if people were encouraged to pick and choose who they want to play for.

Are Italians and Americans(real ones) not allowed a say?

here is a quick question chris, Who is more Italian? a) a person who can trace his ancestry back from his parents to Italy for hundreds of years, but they were born in australia OR

B) a person who can trace their ancestry back from his parents to England for hundreds of years,but they were born in Italy?

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here is a quick question chris, Who is more Italian? a) a person who can trace his ancestry back from his parents to Italy for hundreds of years, but they were born in australia OR

B) a person who can trace their ancestry back from his parents to England for hundreds of years,but they were born in Italy?

 

Don't mind either if they commit to representing one country... well at least for a number of years or WC competitions before changing... an example given above is someone playing for two countries in one year.

 

Obviously there is monetary benefits for being an international representative from being sponsored by sports kit companies and others.... It seems more a case of the player and agent discussing best way of getting more commercial sponsorship rather than really be committed to the country the player chooses... No problem him choosing but if not picked by chosen country shouldn't be able to chase around for another option...

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Don't mind either if they commit to representing one country... well at least for a number of years or WC competitions before changing... an example given above is someone playing for two countries in one year.

 

Obviously there is monetary benefits for being an international representative from being sponsored by sports kit companies and others.... It seems more a case of the player and agent discussing best way of getting more commercial sponsorship rather than really be committed to the country the player chooses... No problem him choosing but if not picked by chosen country shouldn't be able to chase around for another option...

just playing devils advocate, but why not?

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here is a quick question chris, Who is more Italian? a) a person who can trace his ancestry back from his parents to Italy for hundreds of years, but they were born in australia OR

B) a person who can trace their ancestry back from his parents to England for hundreds of years,but they were born in Italy?

 

The person born in Italy is more Italian.

 

If not, what you're suggesting is that Britney Spears is as or more English than Nigel Benn? That John Howard is as or more English than Tariq Ali?

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The person born in Italy is more Italian.

 

If not, what you're suggesting is that Britney Spears is as or more English than Nigel Benn? That John Howard is as or more English than Tariq Ali?

So England football international Terry Butcher is more Singaporean (?) than he is English ?

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So England football international Terry Butcher is more Singaporean (?) than he is English ?

 

Being born somewhere and moving at a very early age is a bit different imo. If you grow up in a country, in my view, that's as good as being born and raised there. Don't think the birth element is all that important actually, more so being raised somewhere for me.

 

Born in Burnley general but raised in Brierfield - Never a Burnley-er.

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Think of it this way, the amount of Indian and Polish families you see around with their young children. The children were born in England but their Mums and Dads talk to them in Indian/Polish, they eat Indian/Polish food they might even watch Indian/Polish TV at home, even music!

  Now to me, I would say for instance, that kid is Polish. They have a Polish name, speak Polish, everything I assume a normal child would do in Poland they're just living in a different country. Surely this must be the case for most if not all the Italian squad. Bit harder to say for the Americans as Aus and USA isn't a massive lifestyle change. 

 

  Maybe all that's a bit more obvious to me having lived in a building where the Polish outnumbered the English 2:1. And also when I take my daughter to playgroup and the park etc.

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Being born somewhere and moving at a very early age is a bit different imo. If you grow up in a country, in my view, that's as good as being born and raised there. Don't think the birth element is all that important actually, more so being raised somewhere for me.

 

Born in Burnley general but raised in Brierfield - Never a Burnley-er.

My lad, also born in Burnley General, raised in Brierclffe, Welshman through and through ! Doesn't matter where he's raised.

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