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Dave T

26/10/13: World Cup Game 1 - Australia v England

Who will win?   111 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Australia by 13 points or more
      44
    • Australia by 7 to 12 points
      18
    • Australia by 1 to 6 points
      3
    • Draw
      0
    • England by 1 to 6 points
      22
    • England by 7 to 12 points
      17
    • England by 13 points or more
      6

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958 posts in this topic

We scored 20 points. We only need one more try and a tighter defence and we'll be able to score enough to win the final.

We now have 4 games for our combinations to get used to one another and learn some more plays. Theirs have played together for years. We'll be like a well oiled club machine by the time we get to Old Trafford.

Lots to be cheerful about. I'm even tempted to criticise Westwood to be savaged by a phalanx of Wire fans, but they're probably all getting togged up for the big match.

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Sinfield is not International class and all your bleating will not change that Christopher. I am bored by your constant defence of this very good club player. A word to the wise, why do so many of us feel this way? Are we all anti Leeds?

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Sinfield is not International class and all your bleating will not change that Christopher. I am bored by your constant defence of this very good club player.

Would you also say that it's boring that one player has been singled by some  for England's defeat .

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Sinfield is not International class and all your bleating will not change that Christopher. I am bored by your constant defence of this very good club player.

To be fair to Christopher, his defence of Sinfield is much stronger than King Kevs. Especially when backed into a corner

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To be fair to Christopher, his defence of Sinfield is much stronger than King Kevs. Especially when backed into a corner

Also better than Rangi's but never mind.

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Also better than Rangi's but never mind.

There are quite a few with better defence than Mr Chase.....

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Sinfield is not International class and all your bleating will not change that Christopher. I am bored by your constant defence of this very good club player. A word to the wise, why do so many of us feel this way? Are we all anti Leeds?

A word to the wise, why do so many succesful coaches and RL players disagree with you?

Your bored with my constant defense, I'm bored with the constant and not warranted criticism

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Sinfield is not International class and all your bleating will not change that Christopher. I am bored by your constant defence of this very good club player. A word to the wise, why do so many of us feel this way? Are we all anti Leeds?

Even though 16 other players played their part in England's defeat ,the defeat seems to lay at the door of one player.That's odd isn't it?

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I think we all need to stop slagging off individuals for the time being.

 

We lost the penalty count 12 to 7.

 

Not sure about the handling error count but close to the end of the re run I've just watched we were losing that 12 to 8.  You set yourself way to big a task with those sort of stats when up a against a team that is your equal let alone better.

 

We need to work on those.

 

Two areas for me to work on are our own security of the football.  More often than not the NRL ref will favour the NRL team.

 

Second area - when getting up to play the ball take a little longer rather trying to seek a quick play.  The emphasis needs to be on completing the set some more care at the PTB and when going into contact.

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I think we all need to stop slagging off individuals for the time being.

 

We lost the penalty count 12 to 7.

 

Not sure about the handling error count but close to the end of the re run I've just watched we were losing that 12 to 8.  You set yourself way to big a task with those sort of stats when up a against a team that is your equal let alone better.

 

We need to work on those.

 

Two areas for me to work on are our own security of the football.  More often than not the NRL ref will favour the NRL team.

 

Second area - when getting up to play the ball take a little longer rather trying to seek a quick play.  The emphasis needs to be on completing the set some more care at the PTB and when going into contact.

Spot on.

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Even though 16 other players played their part in England's defeat ,the defeat seems to lay at the door of one player.That's odd isn't it?

If course it does in mean it was Sinfield who kept dropping the ball, giving penalties away in stupid positions, couldn't play the ball properly wasn't it?

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Sinfield didn't lose us the game by any stretch - and I warmed to him at 7

Just needs someone better at 6 - and let's not go over that argument again!

Discipline cost us yesterday - and from of the supposed "must pick" players too. Maybe they know they won't get dropped...

My one disappointment with Sinfield is I didn't see him stamp his leadership on the team, especially when we were wobbling

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Sinfield didn't lose us the game by any stretch - and I warmed to him at 7

Just needs someone better at 6 - and let's not go over that argument again!

Discipline cost us yesterday - and from of the supposed "must pick" players too. Maybe they know they won't get dropped...

My one disappointment with Sinfield is I didn't see him stamp his leadership on the team, especially when we were wobbling

Yet we didn't implode in the last 20 as per usual.

To be fair I think you'd have to ask the players wether he stamped his authority it not.

I think we should go with Widdop at 6 Sinfield at 7 for the Irish game

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when you talk about Westwoods penalties being stupid ones what do you mean? One was a high shot so only one could be classed as dumb.

Take Westwood out and ok you lose maybe one penalty a game, but you lose a lot of class too. Not a great trade off in my eyes.

Similar with OLoughlin, he has plenty high tackles in him but the quality he brings more than compensates.

 

Not sure why you cannot class a high shot as dumb?  I would class them both Westwood penalties as dumb.  As well as other offenders also. The second Westwood penalty the referee had called held, the players in the tackle then took the player to ground and Westwood took an age to get off, the referee gave him time, but he showed no effort to quickly roll off and get away.  Probably knackered, his efforts in defence and off the ball were immense.

 

Even though Westwood turned over possesion 4 times yesterday (two pens, lost possesion in the tackle, and the incorrect play the ball)  I would still have him in there.  He puts in the effort, and works so hard in defence. Our second try whilst aided by the penalties was down to his go forward in the lead up.  Perhaps his game time should have been managed better by the coaches to negate his fatigue.

 

The point I was trying to make, and I agree with you about O'Loughlin is that we have any number of players that will error, make the wrong decision etc etc when under pressure, and fatigued in a test match.  It's instinctive, and we don't have enough exposure to these types of matches to cope when we are knackered in that final quarter.  It's second nature to Australia, and their instincts, which are embedded due to their competition and origin, which enable them to deal with fatigue and pressure better than us.

 

Having more players in the NRL will help, although Sam Burgess let himself down with the high shot.  George Burgess was immense, Widdop should be first choice Stand Off, and we looked better when he came on, and Tom Burgess went ok, I don't think he was out of his depth as some suggest, he worked hard and did some good things, only responsible for one turnover if memory serves.

 

Not sure how Mossop will go in the NRL, he might take time to adjust as we wasn't at the races early doors, he was an easy spot for Australia, and they certainly capitalised on his lack of acclimatisation to a test match.

 

The frustrating thing is we never quite get the rub of the green in the 50/50 decisions, and some decisions aren't even 50/50 they're just plain wrong from the officials.

 

There was nothing between the sides yesterday, all the tries for both teams came on the back of penalties and repeated free metres.  We can match them in the arm wrestle, we just need to stay switched on, and not crack first.  Easier said than done!

 

anyways all if buts and maybes, it's gone.

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I've finally had a chance to watch the recording of the game, after seeing it live. I'd say there were positives and negatives:

Negatives

• Poor ball retention - too many errors

• Lack of discipline at key times cost us

• Looked a bit leggy at times, but fronted up well right until the end

• Sam Burgess's swinging arm. He'll get a ban for that - it was pretty bad

• Widdop needs more time on the pitch. Start him and have Chase on the bench to run at tired defenders if things need livening uo

Positives

• George Burgess. England's best prop yesterday by some distance. Get Graham back in and that will be some front row.

• We actually looked like we'd score tries when we got into good positions/near their line

• Whatever the haters say, Sinfield played quite well. He kick for Cudjoe's try was excellent

• There are still good players to come back into the team - we should be stronger with Graham and a fit O'Loughlin in there, and McIllorum could be a good shout to bring on when Roby needs a breather

The first 20 minutes were excellent, and there were signs at other times that if we can keep our discipline and improve our ball retention, that England could cause NZ/Australia more problems later in the comp.

Australia will, of course, get better, and it was an opportunity missed. That said, it was a decent game to start the comp and England look a better side than they've done for a few years. We're not as good as Australia (or New Zealand, realistically), but there were signs there that we have the raw ingredients to beat them IF we do everything right for 80 minutes.

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This thread has been almost as good as the game was, The variety of opinions up to the usual standards.

 

My own opinion is that although i don't agree with all Mc Nams' choices, they are what we have. Westwood for eg, I would have him for his aggression, yes you know he will give aways a penalty or two but that's his game.

 

Some have suggested dropping Charnley, but he never had a chance to show what he can do in attack, so why drop him, If he has a weakness at all it's getting back fast enough for the kicks through, but he doesn't deserve to be dropped.

 

 Ferris is still improving at the Giants and i think probably did enough to keep a place on the bench, By and large the forwards did their job for most of the game, so with men hopefully to come back in things should get even better.

 

The backs overall had few opportunities but defended well, Tomkins was solid, and for me Roby did well.

 

 The halves were the problem area, and are likely to remain so, KS gets a lot of stick .but like Westwood ,you know when you pick him what you are getting, I think what gets to people is that it inevitably means shifting people about or getting them to play a game that isn't their style.

 

If S O'loughlin is fit to come in that eliminates one possible position for KS, nobody is going to play him in preference to SO,  why with all the good Hookers available, would you play him in preference to them, Same with S Halves,

 

So taking the fact that he is there whatever, It is his leadership qualities and his organizing skills and Goal kicking that gets him his place, I'm fine with that but you have to accept that a better player in any of those positions has been left out, and people like Chace have to alter their game to something they don't look comfortable with. So are the things KS brings to the team worth  enough to offset the downside, McNams thinks they are,

Myself i don't know ,I like players with a bit of flair , but that's just my opinion, One thing is certain KS certainly gets things stirred up on here, whether he does on the field or not.

 

Game as a whole i think was good to watch, I doubt we will get as good a chance to beat them again, Certainly we shall improve with the players to come back, problem is they will no doubt do the same.

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Would you also say that it's boring that one player has been singled by some  for England's defeat .

I am singling out Sinfiled for the defeat. I am just saying he is not good enough to be in the England team.

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I am singling out Sinfiled for the defeat. I am just saying he is not good enough to be in the England team.

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I am singling out Sinfiled for the defeat. I am just saying he is not good enough to be in the England team.

Yet was one of England's better performers yesterday so what does that make the rest of the team?

The fact is we were the closest we have been to beating Australia since the win in 2006 yet reading some posts in here you would think we got walloped.

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Can anyone tell me what Sinfield did wrong? I've watched the game back twice now and I'm still struggling to find something. He had 3 poor kicks and his goal kicking wasn't as good as usual but apart from that he did fine. His kick for Cudjoes try was outstanding also. Yes he didn't play as good as Thurston, but then again we haven't had a half anywhere close to Thurston in my life time. Sinfields defence was spot on also and our forwards were on the front foot. The only reason we got on the back foot for 20 minutes is because of moronic penalties, if you think that it is due to Sinfield then you haven't watched the game.

I don't think Sinfield is our best option at half back I've stated that many a time. I said he wasnt as good as 2 half backs not selected and that he was not international quality. But at least my previous opinion is not blinding me when it comes to watching the game. Sinfield did everything he needed to do so that we could of won the game. If Chase had been more creative and we had not of lost the penalty count we would of won yesterday. If you think we lost due to Sinfield, you are deluded.

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Can anyone tell me what Sinfield did wrong? I've watched the game back twice now and I'm still struggling to find something. He had 3 poor kicks and his goal kicking wasn't as good as usual but apart from that he did fine. His kick was Cudjoes try was outstanding also. Yes he didn't play as good as Thurston, but then again we haven't had a half anywhere close to Thurston in my life time. Sinfields defence was spot on also and our forwards were on the front foot. The only reason we got on the back foot for 20 minutes is because of moronic penalties, if you think that it is due to Sinfield then you haven't watched the game.

I don't think Sinfield is our best option at half back I've stated that many a time. I said he wasnt as good as 2 half backs not selected and that he was not international quality. But at least my previous opinion is not blinding me when it comes to watching the game. Sinfield did everything he needed to do so that we could of won the game. If Chase had been more creative and we had not of lost the penalty count we would of won yesterday. If you think we lost due to Sinfield, you are deluded.

He was Sinfield.Simple as that.

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Yeah he didn't do much wrong

The perception is that there are better left not playing to accommodate him - which may or may not be valid

In an ideal world I'd like to see Chase play his natural game until some order was needed then Sinfield take over at 1st receiver

Or Widdop and Sinfield at the halves, if we aren't taking an off the cuff approach then Chase has no place in the team

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I'm not blaming Sinfield for the defeat, I'll challenge anyone to show me one of my posts where I've done that.

I'm simply stating now what I've stated for the last 12 months

Kevin Sinfield is a good domestic player, a great Leeds player but is not good enough to play well against the best international teams.

Yesterday he offered nothing, no threat, no great leadership, no organisation Nothing, he didnt even kick well which is supposedly his great strength.

He is being selected ahead of better players in all the positions that he purportedly can cover and that weakens our national team.

All the condescending and insulting retorts from the usual suspects won't change that.

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Is his foot on the ground there? Can you tell for sure unless you see the reverse angle. It should of gone upstairs it was the most important game of the year.

 

The TV I saw showed it from behind as well...as in front.  From behind it looks like he does not touch, that is his heel doesn't touch by a whisker... unless it was long grass and the wind blew and replay didn't capture it.

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Problem is the team is picked now

No point going over what's been said for the last three years but figure how to make it work now

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