Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Dave T

26/10/13: World Cup Game 1 - Australia v England

Who will win?   111 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Australia by 13 points or more
      44
    • Australia by 7 to 12 points
      18
    • Australia by 1 to 6 points
      3
    • Draw
      0
    • England by 1 to 6 points
      22
    • England by 7 to 12 points
      17
    • England by 13 points or more
      6

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

958 posts in this topic

Unlike others on this forum I don't post lies or pass opinion off as fact.

 

I am not sugesting you do, i am mearly asking which one of your posts is accurate,  In one you are stating as a fact the other as a question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lads, take your heads out of this thread (its boring and rubbish) and just re-watch NZ v Samoa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great half an hour until it all went downhill......George Burgess was immense, Westwood was top tackler for that first half hour too......great touch making the Ref's sponsor Specsavers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not sugesting you do, i am mearly asking which one of your posts is accurate,  In one you are stating as a fact the other as a question.

The latter was in response to Ants post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lads, take your heads out of this thread (its boring and rubbish) and just re-watch NZ v Samoa.

Watched,recorded and getting burned to dvd,Rugby League at it's very,very best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thoroughly enjoyed the day yesterday until I had to stand in the pouring rain for over an hour outside Cardiff Central Station. You would think they would have a better system at the station as they have enough big events at the stadium.

Anyhow, the match, I would leave the back five as they are as they all played reasonably well but had very little attacking options. Rangi Chase just seems to freeze in international matches and apart from a couple of good solid tackles he was in the main anonymous. Prior to the match I didn't want Sinfield playing at 7 and I still don't. I can't fault the lads efforts apart from some poor kicks straight down the middle to Slater and his goal-kicking which are usually one of his strengths. It is once again an England (GB) coaches fault of playing forwards in the halfbacks and it just doesn't work. At halfback we need someone with a bit of pace who will take the line on but that never happened.

The front row at the start was excellent with both props, Hill and G Burgess taking the ball in solid and Roby getting us some go forward and when he went off we seemed to lack that. Westwood can be a bit of a loose cannon but he deserves his place and against the likes of NZ I would want him out there. The biggest disappointment for me was Sam Burgess. He didn't play as a loose forward and in the first half he seemed to be pushed out wider to stop Inglis, which to me looked a bit of a negative ploy. He made several errors, gave away a couple of penalties and his swinging arm on Thaiday should have seen him off the field, plus his missed tackle that allowed Slater to score.

The bench was not as strong as we would have liked but young Tom Burgess was thrust in to this after only about 6 games in the NRL so I don't think we can say it was his fault. Lee Mossop was not as strong going forward but he got through a lot of defensive work.

Gareth Widdop needs to start in place of Chase and with the likes of Burrow alongside him and hopefully we can find a Plan B or C when things are not going as planned. We may not have been outclassed yesterday but we certainly spent more time in our own 30 metres than we spent in the Aussies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I am singling out Sinfiled for the defeat. I am just saying he is not good enough to be in the England team.

 

Go to the head of the class

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The latter was in response to Ants post.

 

The latter was in response to Ants post.

 

And still doesn't answer my question,  But there you go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Few things I noticed at Cardiff.

1. Great location

2. Great atmosphere throughout the city centre. No sign of any trouble

3. Thought g. Burgess scored the disallow try. It was right in front o us.

4. Didn't think charnley was in touch

5. Sinfield Marshall's the entire team around the park. He never stops talking or directing. Whether he is the best half back we have is under debate, but he is by far the best leader we have

6. We need to control out aggression more, too many penalties

7. I think that SM needs to decide on chase or widdop. Think he is hedging his bets by having both

8. Keep the strongest team possible for Ireland and Fiji. Our team needs game time to get to know each other

9. I'd add Graham and o'Loughlin for chase and Ablett for the next game. We need to out power the opposition. We showed that our pack was more than a match the the roos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the thread has exploded I've no inclination to catch up the hundreds of posts. So, we were nearly there with pretty poor discipline, some very basic errors and a 65 minute bench warmer. Either use Widdop properly or not at all, he was arguably ineffective coming on so late in a crucial position. Westwood was rocks and diamonds, murky rumours aside, it's up to him to get his head in the game, the thought it could have been him and Hock on that form is disheartening. T Burgess showed his inexperience and his poor handling hasn't improved from his Odsal days. Ablett was a passenger. Other than that we stood and rocked them early doors, a switch in momentum can occur (I fail to agree with anyone who uses the lazy simile of Australia getting out of second-gear, etc. that's down right ignorant to the early effort of England). Watkins did well to keep super-duper Inglis quiet for all but one taller than Tomkins moment, although Kallum did look to hobble late on, hope he'll be alright.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is an argument to both sides but I understand why Sinfield is there (especially with such a young team). I think Sinfield will retire from Internationals at the end of this competition. We can use some of these pool games to be trying out a succession plan. Widdop has to be given 80 against Ireland to see what he can do.

 

Sinfield did alright in the game, however he did not do as one would expect from someone voted best player on the planet, (no disrespect intended there nor, sniping) .

 

What bomballey states is quite evident KS does not set games alight at test level, workmanlike performances are his forte but that is often not enough to win games when up against the best opposition there is in the game, KS IS predictable and very easy for the Aussies especially to combat and handle, nuff said.

 

What no one has highlighted is the fact that after going 10 points up, we let in 24 unanswered points before we scored again, that is not simply down to penalties but as much to being outclassed for too long a period in the match, OK so penalties contribute to taking the ascendency but they have to be contested something as a side, not individuals, ours did not do. 

 

I agree that the game could have been won, with a bit of luck and some decisions going our way, but the winners usually cope with these things, Wigan, Leeds, Warrington in S/L? But against the Aussies and Kiwi's they cannot be as easily rectified.

 

I am fed up of going on about our coaches selections especially the halves and their lack of proficiency. The combination of KS and RC is not compatible especially V OZ, yet Mac persists with it as though he has no alternative and we all know that there is one. 

 

We don't require experimentation we do require a settled pair of halves whoever they maybe.

Playing Widdop V Ireland and Fiji will not prove anything, as didn't the present combination V Wales and France last season.

 

Unless this gets sorted and soon we will not contest the final at all as the status quo is a failed one and has on so many occasions proved to be precisely that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've only just joined this forum but have been following the comments for a while. I think the game on saturday actually put my mind to rest as to whether we'd be strong enough in the centres and wings, which was a massive positive. Much of the debate now centres on where sinfield should play and whether Chase or Widdop should play.Personally, I enjoyed reading Keith T's and theHullRam's comments above about KS' leadership qualities. In all the team selections I have read there has not been enough thought about leadership. Without KS, who provides the leadership, Roby? SBurgess? Graham? Maybe not. O' Loughlin is injury prone. I'd say he has to be in and the case against his inclusion is greatly weakened if you consider leadsership.

 

As for chase/widdop - it's a shame widdop hasn't been given a chance before.... can't help feel it is too late now to change! Ideally, McNamara will give him a chance against fiji or Ireland but he would really have to shine!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've only just joined this forum but have been following the comments for a while. I think the game on saturday actually put my mind to rest as to whether we'd be strong enough in the centres and wings, which was a massive positive. Much of the debate now centres on where sinfield should play and whether Chase or Widdop should play.Personally, I enjoyed reading Keith T's and theHullRam's comments above about KS' leadership qualities. In all the team selections I have read there has not been enough thought about leadership. Without KS, who provides the leadership, Roby? SBurgess? Graham? Maybe not. O' Loughlin is injury prone. I'd say he has to be in and the case against his inclusion is greatly weakened if you consider leadsership.

 

As for chase/widdop - it's a shame widdop hasn't been given a chance before.... can't help feel it is too late now to change! Ideally, McNamara will give him a chance against fiji or Ireland but he would really have to shine!

 

I cannot comprehend why you would write such a diatribe.

 

For a start, why would Widdop have to as you put it- Really have to shine!- when may I ask has the Sinfield Chase combo done that?

 

Yet again, would you believe that either KS or RC would be capable of gaining and holding a S/O or S/H position in any NRL team, never mind if elegible at all, of gaining SOO or even rep honours down there, not a chance of either, on either score occuring.

 

I am not out to denigrate Sinfield ( yet again) at all, I would say that on Saturday he played well enough but the inspiring leadership, especially when we were being beaten was not exactly oozing from him.

The forwards were providing any impetus we had and mainly doing the grafting required to keep us in the game. KS was thereabouts playing his part, but for a role of being an all inspiring leader, I would argue that never did display itself.

 

At club level there is little question that KS has done it and repeatedly for Leeds, but laying claim over the fact that such a quality stands out so clearly at international level is not and to date, never has yet been the case.

Maybe V lesser Nations that has seemed to occur yet to my knowledge, in 30+ international appearances he has yet to stamp an authority of that nature and, for the first time yet!  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not the 30 plus games thing again, I suspect you mean games against Australia as we've got a good record against other nations.

Sinfield ahs only played as captain once against Australia and in that game we have been the closest to beating them since 2006 and we didn't capitulate in the final twenty as we previously have. And the loss was nothing to do with the halves, our completion, penalty and error count was simply shocking, the fact we kept them within 8 points is a testament to how good a side England are

TBH it's all getting a bit tedious now (I'm sure my posts are too) it's clear that certain posters will never ever give a Sinfield any credit.

Sinfield played his role well on Saturday and IMO was the second best half on the pitch. His place kicking was very poor. Though.

Are we really going to have this same debate over and over again after every game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couldn't see it posted elsewhere, but Sam Burgess has picked up a one match ban for his high shot on Sam Thaiday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not the 30 plus games thing again, I suspect you mean games against Australia as we've got a good record against other nations.

Sinfield ahs only played as captain once against Australia and in that game we have been the closest to beating them since 2006 and we didn't capitulate in the final twenty as we previously have. And the loss was nothing to do with the halves, our completion, penalty and error count was simply shocking, the fact we kept them within 8 points is a testament to how good a side England are

TBH it's all getting a bit tedious now (I'm sure my posts are too) it's clear that certain posters will never ever give a Sinfield any credit.

Sinfield played his role well on Saturday and IMO was the second best half on the pitch. His place kicking was very poor. Though.

Are we really going to have this same debate over and over again after every game?

Agreed on the tedious bit ( both of us) But no, I do mean in all of his rep games, whether captain or not Chris.

 

Unless you haven't noticed I am and have been stating that KS, on Saturday, played to the best of his ability, I concede that completely.

However where I do contest with your opinion is that he again played his part, he had no more influence than did others , yet admittedly, performed better than some.

 

That however does not contribute to the manner in which commentators and others like yourself are seemingly convinced that the has to team revolve around his every action, pass, or whatever else his overriding presence commands. 

 

Sinfield played as well as he is able on Saturday and much in line with how at this level, one or two notable occasions apart, he has done throughout his international career. 

Nothing sparkling and mostly insignificant overall!

That is why I object to the superstar accolades he continually receives.

Peacock, Sculthorpe, Farrell, all inspired by their own performances the others around them, albeit with limited success, especially V the Aussies.

But nontheless that they themselves where aspirational players and captains cannot be denied.

 

Kevin Sinfield in my eyes ( not only though?) does not possess such a quality at this level of R/L.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Contrary to what Omega et all post, I don't think England every move etc should revolve around Sinfield, I think he is a good leader and organiser and I think the right man for the job in this WC, time will tell.

What I do get sick of and probably why u post so much on this subject is post which flat out say he's rubbish, not good enough etc and discount the internationals he has played well in (2 x MOM performances against NZ in recent years).

People seem to be forgetting that ATETOD Australia are unfortunately a far better side than England, however we are capable if beating them in a one off and I thnk this team can do it this year.

As for Sculthorpe and the rest you mention being better leaders, neither you or I can say that's true or false, you'd have to get the players perspective on that one!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come off it Christopher!

Sinfields had 30+ international chances and has slightly stood out in about 3 or 4 that's not good enough.

I've never said he was rubbish, those are your words, Ive stated numerous times how much I admire him for Leeds where he's been a great but he's almost never taken that form into International games.

Our attacking game is blunted by his lack of pace and quickness, his inclusion removes the possibility of our halfbacks presenting a threat to the opposition line meaning they can virtually ignore him and focus on his runners.

He's not a specialist hooker even though his best international performance came in that position and there's no way should he be selected at 9 ahead of Roby or McIllorum.

The top Rugby League teams whether domestic, SoO or international no longer pick a ball handling loose forward because it means one less running forward being available and puts greater pressure on the other forwards to make up the workload.

There are other leaders already in the team so that argument is a red herring as is his overrated field kicking ability. The thing he's exceptional at is goal kicking but against the best even that seems to be affected as his success ratio vs Australia is way below what he normaly averages.

The truth is he's being shoehorned into the team by a coach who pinned his faith on him 18 months ago and has since ignored Sinfields poor form during this past season. This despite continually stating that players would be "picked on form" which later became "long term form" in order to explain Sinfields continued presence despite being out of form for 12 months.

Petero is correct when he says that on International form Sinfield as a Captain cannot be compared to Sculthorpe, Farrell, Peacock, Hanley, Reilly, Turner etc. They were inspirational players who rose above adversity and brought out performances which raised the ability of their team mates. I have never seen a flicker of that from Kevin Sinfield as an international Captain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've never seen a flicker of that? I would say coming closest we've been for 7 years and not capitulating in the last 20minutes may have had something to do with how the team was led.

He's played one game as captain against Australia.

And as I've said nobody on here can say he is or isn't a better captain than those mentioned , only the players and coaches around him can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've never seen a flicker of that? I would say coming closest we've been for 7 years and not capitulating in the last 20minutes may have had something to do with how the team was led.

He's played one game as captain against Australia.

And as I've said nobody on here can say he is or isn't a better captain than those mentioned , only the players and coaches around him can.

Any comment on my other points?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any comment on my other points?

I really can't be bothered going over old ground Omega, we will never agree so its pointless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot comprehend why you would write such a diatribe.

 

For a start, why would Widdop have to as you put it- Really have to shine!- when may I ask has the Sinfield Chase combo done that?

 

Yet again, would you believe that either KS or RC would be capable of gaining and holding a S/O or S/H position in any NRL team, never mind if elegible at all, of gaining SOO or even rep honours down there, not a chance of either, on either score occuring.

 

Diatribe? :resent:

 

Well, I would say that just because widdop has performed well in the NRL is no guarantee that he would perform well in an Eng-Aus test outside the Melbourne team. Same, even if he performs well against fiji or Ireland. I think S Mac will look at the first match and think he got the team selection ok... you can't say he got it wrong because the team did perform and you don't know how a different team would have performed... it was the error rate and penalty count that got us in the end. I'm not saying the team would not be better with Widdop but he would have to make a pretty strong case for inclusion... I would have thought this was obvious and not... diatribe...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With all this talk about Sinfield's leadership qualities and how we have to have him in the team for this reason, what happens if he gets injured?   Who is our Vice Captain and will he have any leadership qualities and if so could he not be Captain?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With all this talk about Sinfield's leadership qualities and how we have to have him in the team for this reason, what happens if he gets injured?   Who is our Vice Captain and will he have any leadership qualities and if so could he not be Captain?

 

According to some on here, no one!! can lead a team round like Sinfield. We would be doomed if he got injured and we actually had to play Gareth Widdop at stand off!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



Rugby League World - April 2017

League Express - Mon 10th April 2017