Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

ckn

Grangemouth distillery

76 posts in this topic

Neither am I, I'm advocating workers control of industry

Which workers? Do they need to have some experience of business in general, finances, the law, health and safety etc etc? Or should "Joe Smith" who left school at 16 with a GCSE in metalwork and has spent the last 5 years ripping the guts from poultry in the local chicken factory get the keys to the front door?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh dear, poor managers, all they wanted to do was shut the plant down and throw the workers on the dole :-(

And yet amazingly the plant is still open.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which workers? Do they need to have some experience of business in general, finances, the law, health and safety etc etc? Or should "Joe Smith" who left school at 16 with a GCSE in metalwork and has spent the last 5 years ripping the guts from poultry in the local chicken factory get the keys to the front door?

1, all of them

2, no

3, yes

 

The place I work at is owned and managed by the 150 of us who work there. The "board of directors" is an elected management committee. We establish our own pay and conditions have been in existence since 1977, have never made anyone redundant and turn over £30 million plus pa.

 

We pay in excess of the national average wage and award ourselves an annual pay rise of at least 5% pa year on year.

 

We are living proof that workers can run a successful, profitable business without the need for a management elite.

 

Next question?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1, all of them

2, no

3, yes

 

The place I work at is owned and managed by the 150 of us who work there. The "board of directors" is an elected management committee. We establish our own pay and conditions have been in existence since 1977, have never made anyone redundant and turn over £30 million plus pa.

 

We pay in excess of the national average wage and award ourselves an annual pay rise of at least 5% pa year on year.

 

We are living proof that workers can run a successful, profitable business without the need for a management elite.

 

Next question?

So what's the "management committee" for then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1, all of them

2, no

3, yes

 

The place I work at is owned and managed by the 150 of us who work there. The "board of directors" is an elected management committee. We establish our own pay and conditions have been in existence since 1977, have never made anyone redundant and turn over £30 million plus pa.

 

We pay in excess of the national average wage and award ourselves an annual pay rise of at least 5% pa year on year.

 

We are living proof that workers can run a successful, profitable business without the need for a management elite.

 

Next question?

 

Next question?

 

why isn't everyone doing it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what's the "management committee" for then?

 

The management committee overlooks the business plan we formulate and is directly answerable to the supreme power in the organisation which is the quaterly general meeting of the members. MC members can only serve on the MC for 2 years maximum.

 

It meets once a week on Tuesday mornings. during the rest of the week Mc members (there are 6 of them) are variously, drivers, warehouse workers etc etc

 

Next question?

 

why isn't everyone doing it?

 

 

don't know, but at a guess, suggesting to shareholders that they hand their businesses over to the workforce would go down like a lead balloon. Or meet a similiar response to the one above, If you're ever in Elland come along and I'll show you around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you have a management team who are directly answerable to the shareholders. A capitalist utopia if ever I've seen one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're not shareholders except in the nominal sense of each of us holding a non-transferable share. We don't get a dividend on it and we can't sell it. When we retire or leave the share is given up.

 

No matter what job you do (and most of us perform at least 3 roles) we are paid the same hourly rate.

 

we have no bosses, nobody has the authority to order anyone else to do anything.

 

We are a co-operative in its true and original sense.

 

So yes a utopia but a socialist one, run for the workers by the workers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The management committee overlooks the business plan we formulate and is directly answerable to the supreme power in the organisation which is the quaterly general meeting of the members. MC members can only serve on the MC for 2 years maximum.

 

It meets once a week on Tuesday mornings. during the rest of the week Mc members (there are 6 of them) are variously, drivers, warehouse workers etc etc

 

 

 

don't know, but at a guess, suggesting to shareholders that they hand their businesses over to the workforce would go down like a lead balloon. Or meet a similiar response to the one above, If you're ever in Elland come along and I'll show you around.

 

 If you're ever in Elland come along and I'll show you around.

 

Might do that, you never know. Sister in law works in Elland.

 

a number of questions after having had a look at your web site

 

1. is it that in your line of business you are able to sell at a good margin owing to the demographic of your customers?

2. Whilst it is true that shareholder might not want to hand over their businesses, what is to stop people setting up their own coop businesses from scratch.

3. What if your chosen business was capital intensive?  For example, you might need a  £1/4 million machining centre. The decision on what to buy etc is highly specialist as is the business case and the financing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 If you're ever in Elland come along and I'll show you around.

 

Might do that, you never know. Sister in law works in Elland.

 

a number of questions after having had a look at your web site

 

1. is it that in your line of business you are able to sell at a good margin owing to the demographic of your customers?

2. Whilst it is true that shareholder might not want to hand over their businesses, what is to stop people setting up their own coop businesses from scratch.

3. What if your chosen business was capital intensive?  For example, you might need a  £1/4 million machining centre. The decision on what to buy etc is highly specialist as is the business case and the financing.

 

Our customer base stretches across individuals who for whatever reason don't want to deal with high street shops and who, as long as they meet the minimum order requirement can then buy at wholesale prices, to multi-nationals such as Amazon. We don't deal with the major supermarkets, we're not in the business of being told "from now one you'll give us x% discount and 120 days credit" Margin obviously depends on the deal set up with various customers but we're canny and contrary to any idea Archibald may have we're realists, this is our business and we're good at running it.

 

absolutely no reason why worker-co-ops can't be set up, co-ops Uk has a team who advise and assist co-ops with all sorts of stuff ranging from grants through to employment law.

 

At the moment we're looking at buying into our supply chain just the scenario you've mentioned, we're realists, not utopians, we know we have to deal with banks and finance houses, we're very solvent and have a good relationship with our bank who have indicated that finance would not be a problem.

 

We're also very clever!!! We encourage all workers to train and develop their skills both internally and externally by attending various courses and gaining qualifications relevant to their roles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my faveorite stores in America is a Co-op.

 

REI

 

One, if not the biggest outdoors retailers in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like the Grangemouth and Falkirk stories refuse to die...

 

If some of the allegations are true a number of people will have to resign. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like the Grangemouth and Falkirk stories refuse to die...

 

If some of the allegations are true a number of people will have to resign. 

 

If some of the allegations are true there may be more than just resignations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a constant frustration for those of us that are left leaning in our politics.  People with similar political outlooks behaving in the exact opposite way to their principles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The latest, taken from our trade paper (only in the actual paper, the web link doesn't have this) is that the 500+ who voted for strike/against the companies initial proposals will be sacked and employed again on worse terms than those who voted for the reforms. Apparently the terms will be in the companies pension contributions, those voting for the reforms will get 11% and those who voted against, 9%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The latest, taken from our trade paper (only in the actual paper, the web link doesn't have this) is that the 500+ who voted for strike/against the companies initial proposals will be sacked and employed again on worse terms than those who voted for the reforms. Apparently the terms will be in the companies pension contributions, those voting for the reforms will get 11% and those who voted against, 9%.

 

What is the title of the trade paper?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our customer base stretches across individuals who for whatever reason don't want to deal with high street shops and who, as long as they meet the minimum order requirement can then buy at wholesale prices, to multi-nationals such as Amazon. We don't deal with the major supermarkets, we're not in the business of being told "from now one you'll give us x% discount and 120 days credit" Margin obviously depends on the deal set up with various customers but we're canny and contrary to any idea Archibald may have we're realists, this is our business and we're good at running it.

 

absolutely no reason why worker-co-ops can't be set up, co-ops Uk has a team who advise and assist co-ops with all sorts of stuff ranging from grants through to employment law.

 

At the moment we're looking at buying into our supply chain just the scenario you've mentioned, we're realists, not utopians, we know we have to deal with banks and finance houses, we're very solvent and have a good relationship with our bank who have indicated that finance would not be a problem.

 

We're also very clever!!! We encourage all workers to train and develop their skills both internally and externally by attending various courses and gaining qualifications relevant to their roles.

Good luck to you but I can't see how a small distribution company is proof that there is another model that all firms small or large, in any industry could follow.

Co-operatives exist but they tend to exist only in certain markets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The latest, taken from our trade paper (only in the actual paper, the web link doesn't have this) is that the 500+ who voted for strike/against the companies initial proposals will be sacked and employed again on worse terms than those who voted for the reforms. Apparently the terms will be in the companies pension contributions, those voting for the reforms will get 11% and those who voted against, 9%.

Scaremongering.

The company has no way of knowing who voted which way in a secret ballot held by a trade union.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scaremongering.

The company has no way of knowing who voted which way in a secret ballot held by a trade union.

 

This is the exact quote from the story.

"Although the dispute has been settled, staff/management relations look likely to continue to be frosty following news that employees who rejected the pension shakeup will receive a smaller settlement than those who signed up to the survival plan. The 665 workers who initially rejected the Ineos proposal will be sacked and rehired as new employees. They will receive a company pension contribution of 9% - those that backed the plan will get 11%".

I don't think the union ballot will come into it, I'm guessing the company issued new terms to be signed either agreeing or rejecting the proposals and took the numbers from that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good luck to you but I can't see how a small distribution company is proof that there is another model that all firms small or large, in any industry could follow.

Co-operatives exist but they tend to exist only in certain markets.

 

MONDRAGON Corporation is the embodiment of the co-operative movement that began in 1956, the year that witnessed the creation of the first industrial cooperative in Mondragón in the province of Gipuzkoa; 

 

see http://www.mondragon-corporation.com/language/en-US/ENG.aspx

 

Phil and I are probably at opposite ends of the political spectrum but in my world as well as his there is room for  a wide range of business models and it has been interesting to look into this approach if only on the Internet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the exact quote from the story.

I don't think the union ballot will come into it, I'm guessing the company issued new terms to be signed either agreeing or rejecting the proposals and took the numbers from that.

 

That is exactly what happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



League Express - Mon 10th April 2017

Rugby League World - April 2017