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Big Col

No Graham

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I wonder if it is a ploy. Especially with lockers being left out (or was he out on the pop too?). We always bust our hides trying to beat the aussies in the group stages/round robin type things and then they smash us into next week in the knock out stages/finals.

 

So, do we show a bit of discipline, so what if we lose this (banking on coming secon in the group) and also rest a couple of the lads ready to be on top form in the knock outs?

 

Or maybe I am overthinking it.

The Kiwis are no easybeats, I would think that you would be best trying to win every game.

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He quite obviously hasn't because around 20% of his squad were out on the beer!

IMO doing it now does more damage than it saves, he should have taken Hock & Co into a room and laid into them with the biggest verbal spray they'll ever receive and it should have been done behind closed doors with no publicity and no official statements.

I'd agree it should have been dealt with behind closed doors, but, given they've been in camp for a while, we've no idea of what has and hasn't been going on so for all we know this may just have been the final straw, who knows.  Time to put it to bed for mine and start looking forward to the game.

 

With regards Graham, on last weeks form drinks scandal or not everyones places were in doubt if you ask me, so not to fussed he's not made the cut this week.

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What if the whole Hockgate / Graham affair was instigated to throw off the aussies? Maybe hock was badly injured and had to withdraw and Graham picked up a knock. The Aussies would naturally head into the opening game off guard expecting a shambolic England team only for England to come out guns blazing and scythe them down like a cluster of serated terrapins.......

Either way England will win

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The Kiwis are no easybeats, I would think that you would be best trying to win every game.

 

Do you not think that NZ will win group B?

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What if the whole Hockgate / Graham affair was instigated to throw off the aussies? Maybe hock was badly injured and had to withdraw and Graham picked up a knock. The Aussies would naturally head into the opening game off guard expecting a shambolic England team only for England to come out guns blazing and scythe them down like a cluster of serated terrapins.......

Either way England will win

We can live in hope!

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Completely agree, after Tompkins and Sam Burgess he was my next definite in the starting 13. Canterbury player of the year, one of the best performing props in the NRL, respected or at least highly regarded by all in the Aus squad (apart from Slater perhaps he he) and bags of experience which is what this England squad lacks. He will be massively missed and his absents is a real dent to our chances of an upset. He's so passionate when he plays and can lift any team with a good carry, IMO there is no replacement prop who can fill his boots.

this

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While I agree that Graham is a super player, I don't agree that it was a stupid decision to leave him out and as a Saints fan I am a big fan of James Graham as a player. However, regardless of my respect for him as a player if he acted unprofessionally then he should know without a shadow of a doubt that just because he now plays for the NRL and indeed is a super player, he cannot disrespect the coach, the team or indeed the fans by picking and choosing which rules he abides by.  This is a team sport and the team must be as one.  If they are not then they don't deserve to be in the team, either permanently or on match day. 

 

We have the cover and now the inexperienced guys have their chance to make their mark.  Jammer might have lost his place for the rest of this tournament but assuming his absence is because of discipline issues (and we have no confirmation of that of course) then that is his own fault.  If others given their opportunity shine then us fans won't care who is on the pitch so long as they put in a fab performance and, preferably, beat everyone!

Think this is the best post on this subject so far.

 

A couple of things, assuming Graham has been dropped because of the drinking and not any other reason such as injury, the rules he broke according to the press release are those agreed by the team and management, rules he presumeably agreed to abide by not those laid down. I past threads many have touted Graham as being England captain, something I would previously have agreed with. Is this how we expect a possible captain in waiting to behave? or would we expect them to set an example? 

 

The above said, even if we beat the Aussies, I would expect Graham to be back in the side for the following games. Lets all hope the players make his inclusion difficult by playing so well and the Graham justifies any future selection by being the ulitimate player both on and off the pitch.

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Its getting plenty of coverage Downunder.

 

YOU'VE got to love England. The Poms sure know how to serve up a scandal.

All year they have been building up this Rugby League World Cup as the global sporting event of 2013 - but in the countdown to the tournament kick off, early Sunday morning Australian time, the host nation is now on the verge of imploding.

While Australia's preparations have been faultless, England are in turmoil after Canterbury's star prop James Graham was sensationally left out of England's 19-man squad named to take on Australia in the tournament opener at Millennium Stadium.

Graham's omission follows coach Steve McNamara's dramatic decision to sack Gareth Hock for breaking a team booze ban and missing a recovery season in the wake of England's shock defeat to Italy last weekend.

Hock was furious that he was the only player sent home after claiming up to seven other players had also broken the no alcohol policy the team had put in place until after the Australian game.

Hock said the players went out to drown their sorrows after their humiliating loss to Italy last weekend but instead of it bonding them together it appears to have sunk their World Cup dream.

All week there has been a guessing game going on here about who else was out on the town with Hock but so far England's team management have refused to reveal the other players involved, although it is understood they have been disciplined.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/bulldogs-prop-james-graham-dropped-for-kangaroos-rugby-league-world-cup-opener/story-fndujljl-1226746421015

I am not sure whether you are Australian, or whether you are based in Australia.

While that article is true to an extent, anyone who spent more than 2 minutes on research would have noticed that this is building up into by far the most successful World Cup the Code has had, with far better and well informed coverage than we have ever seen. That's the story. England's travails are a single cloud in a clear sky.

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Do you not think that NZ will win group B?

Yes and my point was if England lose against Oz they will meet the Kiwis in the Semis.

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I am not sure whether you are Australian, or whether you are based in Australia.

While that article is true to an extent, anyone who spent more than 2 minutes on research would have noticed that this is building up into by far the most successful World Cup the Code has had, with far better and well informed coverage than we have ever seen. That's the story. England's travails are a single cloud in a clear sky.

 

What was your point again?

Can there be no opinions that do not suit what some want to hear?

I thought it was a forum for mixed ideas and opinions that do not always suit everyone.

The story is no different than what nearly every poster here has expressed.

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Our home record against the Kiwis speaks for itself.

Not sure how far back you can go to have any comparison to now.

In Englands last 6 games against the Kiwis they have won 2 from 6.

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Yes and my point was if England lose against Oz they will meet the Kiwis in the Semis.

Got you. Well, I was sort of hoping for a more clear strategy out of it all! Who do we face in the semis if come top of the group?

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Where did I say that? Again, more rubbish that has nothing to do with the point. So which wum were you then.

Obviously you think that being disciplined is more important than getting your best players on the pitch.

 

Steve Mac has now shown us what a strict disciplinarian he is, so that will lead seamlessly to a win.

 

If you don't think this stance is going to lead to an England win, then why do you support his stance so strongly? Surely you do want England to win don't you? Or do you just like the view from up their on your highly disciplined horse?

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Hock, McIllorum and Hardaker wouldn't be in my starting 17 anyways.

Graham is a blow, but gives the Burgess boys a chance to step up now. Start with Mossop and Hill. Just imagine the roar from the crowd if they bring on both the twins at the same time. It would be a huge boost.

Will both twins coming on together count as one sub? :-)

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yep, you mean there more professional approach... and I'm sure the Aussie public would expect no less.   As somebody else said if the players felt the need to relax over a drink following the Italy performance then they should have asked the manager if it would be OK and the rational why. You know the mature and professional approach - a grown up discussion.    Having said that why is the answer alcohol if the need to relax and get over a performance.... has to say something about the culture, mentality and emotional intelligence if that's the only thing they know...the answer to all issues -  turn to the alcohol.

Australian RL players have an appalling record on drinking, fighting, crapping in hotel corridors, blah, blah, blah. So don't try to convince us that it will be the superior Aussie discipline that defeats us.

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So ill discipline should be part of a team environment.

Nope, but neither should doing your dirty washing in public, or blatant showboating by the coach to show how tough he is.

 

Nobody should have known anything about this sorry episode. That would have been strong management.

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Nope, but neither should doing your dirty washing in public, or blatant showboating by the coach to show how tough he is.

 

Nobody should have known anything about this sorry episode. That would have been strong management.

imagine you are the England coach,players break the rules you have set out.How would you deal with it?

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imagine you are the England coach,players break the rules you have set out.How would you deal with it?

Quietly, as would most other managers.

 

Can you imagine Alex Ferguson, on the eve of say, a Champions League semi-final, announcing to all and sundry that Wayne Rooney has been on the ######, and will be sent home?

 

Absolutely no chance ever, ever, ever.

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Quietly, as would most other managers.

 

Can you imagine Alex Ferguson, on the eve of say, a Champions League semi-final, announcing to all and sundry that Wayne Rooney has been on the ######, and will be sent home?

 

Absolutely no chance ever, ever, ever.

Yet Fergie had quite public dealings over rooney.Plus it's the opening group game,not a knock out game,I think Mcnamara has done the right thing.I really don't think the loss of one player will determine whether we win or lose against the Aussies.

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Yet Fergie had quite public dealings over rooney.Plus it's the opening group game,not a knock out game,I think Mcnamara has done the right thing.I really don't think the loss of one player will determine whether we win or lose against the Aussies.

Maybe you are right, but we should be concentrating on the game, not on Steve's attempts to show us all how big his balls are.

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Firstly, I'd like to say a big thank you to Messrs Hock, Graham, McIlorum, Hardaker (and whoever else was involved) for destroying the hopes of this country's RL fans yet again. As the Aussie article said, we have been waiting for years for this, and it's blown up in our faces before it's even begun, thanks to the actions of a buch of morons who have no respect for anyone (fellow players, coach, fans, you name it) and couldn't behave on what should have been the eve of the biggest sporting occasion for them as well as everyone else, preferring beer instead.

Secondly, I can't see McNamara's point in dropping them for Saturday. Given the obvious attitude problem of these players I can't see any of them busting a gut in the lesser group games now, and their unjusifiably aggrieved presence in the camp will only cause problems. It would have been preferable to have made Hock the scapegoat and then wiped the slate clean, with Hock's punishment serving as a severe warning on furture conduct. Al least we would then still have a hope of winning the World Cup. As it is, McNamara would have been better sending them all home.

 

Regardless of any of that, for me, these guys have shown that they don't give a toss about us, the fans, and I will vocally express my distaste for their actions whenever I have the opportunity. Perhaps the Leeds fans who found themselves able to boo Sam Tomkins for no reason will recognise they now have a far more worthy target for their abuse right there at home. These wasters deserve no less.

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Firstly, I'd like to say a big thank you to Messrs Hock, Graham, McIlorum, Hardaker (and whoever else was involved) for destroying the hopes of this country's RL fans yet again. As the Aussie article said, we have been waiting for years for this, and it's blown up in our faces before it's even begun, thanks to the actions of a buch of morons who have no respect for anyone (fellow players, coach, fans, you name it) and couldn't behave on what should have been the eve of the biggest sporting occasion for them as well as everyone else, preferring beer instead.

Secondly, I can't see McNamara's point in dropping them for Saturday. Given the obvious attitude problem of these players I can't see any of them busting a gut in the lesser group games now, and their unjusifiably aggrieved presence in the camp will only cause problems. It would have been preferable to have made Hock the scapegoat and then wiped the slate clean, with Hock's punishment serving as a severe warning on furture conduct. Al least we would then still have a hope of winning the World Cup. As it is, McNamara would have been better sending them all home.

 

Regardless of any of that, for me, these guys have shown that they don't give a toss about us, the fans, and I will vocally express my distaste for their actions whenever I have the opportunity. Perhaps the Leeds fans who found themselves able to boo Sam Tomkins for no reason will recognise they now have a far more worthy target for their abuse right there at home. These wasters deserve no less.

One point,it wasn't only Leeds fans that booed Tomkins,I was at that game and fans from plenty of other clubs were booing but because the game was played at Headingley,it was all Leeds fans,right?

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Maybe you are right, but we should be concentrating on the game, not on Steve's attempts to show us all how big his balls are.

Maybe if the players had been intelligent enough not to break rules that had been set out for them,he wouldn't have had to take such action.

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Maybe if the players had been intelligent enough not to break rules that had been set out for them,he wouldn't have had to take such action.

He could have taken the action, and not told anyone about it.

 

What was the need to come out with a statement? 

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