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iangidds

Kevin Sinfield

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Wally that is tantamount to Blasphemy,

 

Seriously though, it looks as though the consensus of opinion on here regarding KS worth in the team is 30% for and 70% against, whilst I consider that many posters on here may have never been near a ball in anger or had the pleasure of coaching (I am probably going to get lynched for that assumption) we have a perspective and judgement most likely brought about by many years of experience in watching, debating and acquiring a great deal of knowledge of TGG, that is presumably why we post on here.

 

I know the saying re: committee's and racehorses etc and the buck stops with Steve Mac, but surely the majority can't be wrong ....................................................... Can they?     

 

 

Not sure where you get 70 30 split but... That doesn't mean the majority agree with you at all, at best it means the majority on here agree with you.

5 separate England coaches disagree with you though.

If you think a few fans on a message board are right and 5 England coaches, several club coaches including 3 who've won GFs, many current SL and international players are in the minority and are wrong, then fill your boots.

Christopher I can understand how you missed what I actually wrote, it seems that if anyone should dare to imply that KS is anything other than a demi-god your fingers go into automatic overdrive, please in future engage your brain before putting your fingers into gear.

 

Now back to reality, as it has been stated by many on here KS (in their opinion) has been a good, great, fantastic club player and would no doubt have him in their domestic team, But as an international with the exception of about 3 games ( I think this is roughly 10% of his representative games) he does not live up to the accolades he receives.

 

I am still totally surprised why on earth when we have better performers to play in the 4 positions that KS is involved in - and some now are even suggesting a 5th as in the second row - never mind that it is KS we are discussing it would apply to anyone, we need our best/accustomed players in their position on the field, and as for leadership on the field isn't O' Loughlin and Roby captains of their respective clubs also.  

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You posted 'the majority can't be wrong' in saying you aren't the majority

I do not think KS is a Demi god, i think he is a very good RL player and I happen to think he is the right man to captain England in this WC.

You disagree and of course that's fine but don't think that means your in a majority or indeed correct.

5 different England/GB coaches have also deemed KS to be good enough to play in the team again a few fans on an Internet forum disagree, good on em, doesn't make you or them right and the way childish insults get banded around when people disagree with them gets tedious.

I can think KS is a good player and the right captain for the team without thinking he's a Demi god, or the sun shine out if his arris or being 'his mum' as often gets posted, it's pretty boring TBH

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You posted 'the majority can't be wrong' in saying you aren't the majority

I do not think KS is a Demi god, i think he is a very good RL player and I happen to think he is the right man to captain England in this WC.

You disagree and of course that's fine but don't think that means your in a majority or indeed correct.

5 different England/GB coaches have also deemed KS to be good enough to play in the team again a few fans on an Internet forum disagree, good on em, doesn't make you or them right and the way childish insults get banded around when people disagree with them gets tedious.

I can think KS is a good player and the right captain for the team without thinking he's a Demi god, or the sun shine out if his arris or being 'his mum' as often gets posted, it's pretty boring TBH

So do you agree that there are better exponents "In this Squad" of the players in positions

 

STAND OFF

SCRUM HALF

HOOKER

LOOSE FORWARD

 

If not please state who are not as good as Kev and for what reason he is better at that position.

 

I know you have already dismissed him as a second row, quite rightly. 

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I think he's the best stand off in the squad. Not a conventional stand off I will grant you but the best in the squad.

He edges Widdop for his organisational skills, Widdop is inexperienced in leading a team around the park having played all of his senior RL in a very organised side led by Cameron Smuth and Cooper cronk.

However I full expect Widdop to make the six jersey his own after this years World Cup when IMO Sinfield will retire.

Chase is a totally different type of player it's hard to compare but I think chase and Sinfield can work well in the halfs so it doesn't have to be a choice.

I don't think he's the best in any other of those positions.

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While there are undoubtably better halves that are England qualified (one is playing tonight), I think we disregard Sinfields leadership, organisational and kicking ability at our peril.  I rather him be in the team than not.  I quite liked him at 9 in the Exiles game.

I know he's a Ponte lad, but it's a bit early for Danny Addy. :unsure:

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I think he's the best stand off in the squad. Not a conventional stand off I will grant you but the best in the squad.

He edges Widdop for his organisational skills, Widdop is inexperienced in leading a team around the park having played all of his senior RL in a very organised side led by Cameron Smuth and Cooper cronk.

However I full expect Widdop to make the six jersey his own after this years World Cup when IMO Sinfield will retire.

Chase is a totally different type of player it's hard to compare but I think chase and Sinfield can work well in the halfs so it doesn't have to be a choice.

I don't think he's the best in any other of those positions.

 

 

For me Widdop is the best stand off in our squad due to his passing, running and kicking ability with also being able to organise the attack. That is my opinion.

 

I'm just interested to know why you think Sinfield is the better option? I know you mentioned his organisational skills, but you must have more reasons than that as that alone isn't a very good reason.

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Quote Saint Toppy Can't knock Sinfield for effort but he just isn't an international half back. He doesn't have the pace or skill to open up defences & create something out of nothing.

The sad thing is Chase does have these qualities but for whatever reason never displays them. 

 

 

 

I feel Chase was asked to play a more disciplined role on Saturday and that's not what he's about.Either give him the opportunity to play his usual game or don't bother at all.There's no compromise with RC.

 

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KS will be there , Nothing anyone on here can do to alter it. so we might as well get behind him.  I can see Christopher's point, he may be the best option available from the choices on offer because of his leadership qualities. I think what gets many, Is that he is nowhere near the best player, But that is down to Mac , Thats just another thing the RFL have excelled themselves at, Who else would pick the man with arguably the worst club record. thats another story, So for now   Come on England.

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For me Widdop is the best stand off in our squad due to his passing, running and kicking ability with also being able to organise the attack. That is my opinion.

I'm just interested to know why you think Sinfield is the better option? I know you mentioned his organisational skills, but you must have more reasons than that as that alone isn't a very good reason.

And for me Widdops passing and kicking ability isn't as good as Sinfields so no not just leadership skills.

At this point in time I think Sinfield is the better all round 6 above Widdop, this as I say will change as Widdop develops at StGeorge but he's not there yet.

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Christopher says he is the best stand-off in the squad and therein lies another story as to the squad selected.   McNamara picked Sinfield as his captain 2 years ago and he has to fit him in, in positions where there are better options than him.

 

I don't agree that he is the better stand-off in the squad and rate Widdop better but that is just a matter of choice.  As Giantstrides says there is nothing us lesser mortals can do about it as we don't have any say in selecting who plays or where but McNamara in my opinion has got himself in to a corner and is stubbornly sticking with his selection.    

 

As for 5 international coaches all picking Sinfield, that may be so, but where has been the success under those 5 coaches?

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KS will be there , Nothing anyone on here can do to alter it. so we might as well get behind him. I can see Christopher's point, he may be the best option available from the choices on offer because of his leadership qualities. I think what gets many, Is that he is nowhere near the best player, But that is down to Mac , Thats just another thing the RFL have excelled themselves at, Who else would pick the man with arguably the worst club record. thats another story, So for now Come on England.

Good club coaches don't always make good rep coaches, I think we have to give SM to the end of the tournament before judging him because he has bult this squad up for 3 years just for this. were one game in and in that game put in a better performance than most on here predicted and the good thing is we have a lot of improvement in the team, we pushed the top side very close and with a shocking completion and error rate in the second half.

I realise a few on here will never give SM or KS any credit at all but I wouldn't write them off yet

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I can only remember one other player apart from Sinfield coming in for this kind of of thing and much of it is done out of spite.That player was Lewis Jones Leeds greatest ever player who's club points and goal scoring record KS broke

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Nobody hates KS we just do not believe he is the right man for the job in hand and neither is SM. There is some sort of sickness among GB/Eng coaches, who just cannot or will not pick on form or players in their best positions. They are always trying to shoehorn people into positions and picking players who are favourites.

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Christopher says he is the best stand-off in the squad and therein lies another story as to the squad selected.   McNamara picked Sinfield as his captain 2 years ago and he has to fit him in, in positions where there are better options than him.

 

I don't agree that he is the better stand-off in the squad and rate Widdop better but that is just a matter of choice.  As Giantstrides says there is nothing us lesser mortals can do about it as we don't have any say in selecting who plays or where but McNamara in my opinion has got himself in to a corner and is stubbornly sticking with his selection.    

 

As for 5 international coaches all picking Sinfield, that may be so, but where has been the success under those 5 coaches?

 

 

You may disagree with this and think there are better options but he doesn't, He isn't 'stubbornly' doing anything, he is picking what he thinks is the best team to win the WC.

 

as for your last sentence, I'm unclear in what you mean? are you saying all those 5 coaches weren't good enough or that its Sinfield's fault we haven't had any success against the Aussies?

 

Well its neither, the reason we haven't had any sustained success against Australia is simply because they are a better side than us, they have a larger and better pool of players to pick from due to it being the number one sport in the majority of the country.

 

However we can win this WC as we are capable of beating the Australians as we have a very good squad of payers this time around.

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You may disagree with this and think there are better options but he doesn't, He isn't 'stubbornly' doing anything, he is picking what he thinks is the best team to win the WC.

 

as for your last sentence, I'm unclear in what you mean? are you saying all those 5 coaches weren't good enough or that its Sinfield's fault we haven't had any success against the Aussies?

 

Well its neither, the reason we haven't had any sustained success against Australia is simply because they are a better side than us, they have a larger and better pool of players to pick from due to it being the number one sport in the majority of the country.

 

However we can win this WC as we are capable of beating the Australians as we have a very good squad of payers this time around.

Capable but very improbable, due to incoherent selections and directions.

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Capable but very improbable, due to incoherent selections and directions.

So why was the game against Australia the closest we have been to them since 2006? If the coach was clueless and selections incoherent why did we get so close?

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For what it's worth I watch a lot of nrl and widdop is certainly no passenger in the Melbourne team, he is one of their most important players and was a key player when they won the grand final. IMO he has a better running game, passing game and is just as good an organiser as ks, he also has an underated kicking game. He's also great at linking up with his wide men and getting quick ball out wide which i don't think we did well on Saturday. I've nothing against Kevin sinfield but I just I don't think he's the best halve we've got at this level and that's the most important position for us, get the halves right and I fell we could beat the Aussies.

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While there are undoubtably better halves that are England qualified (one is playing tonight), I think we disregard Sinfields leadership, organisational and kicking ability at our peril.  I rather him be in the team than not.  I quite liked him at 9 in the Exiles game.

i much prefer james roby, shaun lunt, danny houghton, paul mc shane, michael mc illorum, etc etc all far better hookers than sinfield.......

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i much prefer james roby, shaun lunt, danny houghton, paul mc shane, michael mc illorum, etc etc all far better hookers than sinfield.......

I agree but I think it's obvious sinfield isn't getting dropped so I'd rather him as hooker where his best international performances have been, perhaps starting and bringing roby on when defences are tiring. At least that way sinfield won't slow the play down has much as when he's first receiver and we might be able to get the ball out wide quicker and play with halves with a better running game.

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For what it's worth I watch a lot of nrl and widdop is certainly no passenger in the Melbourne team, he is one of their most important players and was a key player when they won the grand final. IMO he has a better running game, passing game and is just as good an organiser as ks, he also has an underated kicking game. He's also great at linking up with his wide men and getting quick ball out wide which i don't think we did well on Saturday. I've nothing against Kevin sinfield but I just I don't think he's the best halve we've got at this level and that's the most important position for us, get the halves right and I fell we could beat the Aussies.

 

 

cut the stupid errors out and get a batter completion rate and we would have beaten them on Saturday, the halves were not the issue.

 

FWIW I watch a lot of NRL too and i never said Widdop was a passenger, I said he is used to playing in a team with two other players who organise the team.

 

Don't worry Widdop is young and will make the 6 jersey his own in the next few years.

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Not sure where you get 70 30 split but... That doesn't mean the majority agree with you at all, at best it means the majority on here agree with you.

5 separate England coaches disagree with you though.

If you think a few fans on a message board are right and 5 England coaches, several club coaches including 3 who've won GFs, many current SL and international players are in the minority and are wrong, then fill your boots.

 

Five seperate coaches, as you say have all been almost as besotted as you are with KS Chris, but those coaches have all had different opinions in turn deciding where to play him.

 

In other words he is, or has been considered in a utility role rather than as a settled and automatic selection for one definitive position.

 

To conclude I will repet that again Chris: Kevin Sinfield has mainly been utilised and used as an utility player!

 

That in itself effectively display's his true worthiness to the team/s he has been a part of at an international level. 

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Five seperate coaches, as you say have all been almost as besotted as you are with KS Chris, but those coaches have all had different opinions in turn deciding where to play him.

 

In other words he is, or has been considered in a utility role rather than as a settled and automatic selection for one definitive position.

 

To conclude I will repet that again Chris: Kevin Sinfield has mainly been utilised and used as an utility player!

 

That in itself effectively display's his true worthiness to the team/s he has been a part of at an international level. 

 

No need for the petty first comment petero, I'm not 'besotted' with anyone.

 

I'm not sure why the rest of your post is relevant, Sinfield has played 13, 9 and half back in his 13 year International career for 5 different coaches who all deemed him to be 'international' class in all those positions, yet you think you know better than them all I presume?

 

Andy Farrell also played quite a few positions over his international career, as did Paul Sculthorpe and quite a few others are you classing those players as utility players?

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No need for the petty first comment petero, I'm not 'besotted' with anyone.

 

I'm not sure why the rest of your post is relevant, Sinfield has played 13, 9 and half back in his 13 year International career for 5 different coaches who all deemed him to be 'international' class in all those positions, yet you think you know better than them all I presume?

 

Andy Farrell also played quite a few positions over his international career, as did Paul Sculthorpe and quite a few others are you classing those players as utility players?

 

Well if you consider my comments relevant then I would conclude yours to be evasive and actually, the comment of you being besotted is not an opinion that only I have formed when yourself and KS come into contention.

 

Sinfield until MacB came along was never used in a settled position of that you cannot argue, Smith even had him in three different positions, in one game alone in 2008.

 

Now of the three international games in which kevin has played at his best, one was the first test V Oz at scrum half, the second of that series he was annulled reason being, the Aussies knew what he would produce and quite simply stopped him. 

 

Next he had a very good match at, Hooker, again first game in a series. Unfortunately both V oz  and yet again in the return game precisely the same as above occurred , they knew what to expect and again just stifled his worth.

 

The last time was two years ago, at Wembley, Scrum Half this time, first game of series ( notice the pattern?) and very good he was too.

I wont dwell what occured in the next meeting simply to state: exactly the same again!

In each and every other he has been up against OZ he has failed utterly and not even impressed at all.

 

That Chris is one of the prime reasons that those of us un-besotted and not wearing blue and yellow glasses continue to be amazed that Kevin has been persisted with over such a protracted period, when to all intent's and purposes, he has never yet proven his worth at test level over and above the mediocre.

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cut the stupid errors out and get a batter completion rate and we would have beaten them on Saturday, the halves were not the issue.

FWIW I watch a lot of NRL too and i never said Widdop was a passenger, I said he is used to playing in a team with two other players who organise the team.

Don't worry Widdop is young and will make the 6 jersey his own in the next few years.

After the first 20 mins if the match we should have been a lot more than 10 nil up with the amount of possession we had, we had the Aussies rattled but we didn't create enough chances and that's down to the halves, when sinfield is first receiver it slows our play down to much, we didn't get the ball out to the centres and wingers enough to test them out wide. I agree we shot ourselves in the foot with silly mistakes but we can't blame it all down to that as we didn't create enough chances when we had them rattled.

And you keep saying about 5 coaches all picking sinfield but you've got to ask if we had the players in the past in the halves that we've got at our disposal now? Sinfield may have been picked in the past because he was the best option available but I don't think that's the case today.

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Well if you consider my comments relevant then I would conclude yours to be evasive and actually, the comment of you being besotted is not an opinion that only I have formed when yourself and KS come into contention.

 

Sinfield until MacB came along was never used in a settled position of that you cannot argue, Smith even had him in three different positions, in one game alone in 2008.

 

Now of the three international games in which kevin has played at his best, one was the first test V Oz at scrum half, the second of that series he was annulled reason being, the Aussies knew what he would produce and quite simply stopped him. 

 

Next he had a very good match at, Hooker, again first game in a series. Unfortunately both V oz  and yet again in the return game precisely the same as above occurred , they knew what to expect and again just stifled his worth.

 

The last time was two years ago, at Wembley, Scrum Half this time, first game of series ( notice the pattern?) and very good he was too.

I wont dwell what occured in the next meeting simply to state: exactly the same again!

In each and every other he has been up against OZ he has failed utterly and not even impressed at all.

 

That Chris is one of the prime reasons that those of us un-besotted and not wearing blue and yellow glasses continue to be amazed that Kevin has been persisted with over such a protracted period, when to all intent's and purposes, he has never yet proven his worth at test level over and above the mediocre.

 

Those of us 'un-besotted', listen Petero its getting tedious.

 

At least you seem to admit that Sinfield has played well for GB and England and not stating outright he's never performed. Unfortunately over the years England/GB have very rarely performed against Australia and that mainly is down to the fact they are a far better side than us. Many other players have underperformed against Australia in a GB/England shirt.

 

Be amazed all you like Petero, the people in charge of the national side for the last 13 years all feel or felt different. My opinion is ultimately just that an opinion as is yours it makes not one jot of difference, I happen to think Sinfield is the right man for the job in this WC regardless of whats gone on n previous games in previous years, you don't. I'm not besotted I'm not Sinfields mum, I just have a differing opinion to you.

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