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ELBOWSEYE

IS RUGBY LEAGUE TOO HONEST

77 posts in this topic

 Why are you shouting.

 

You stated that it happens a lot at SL clubs, I just would like to see some real numbers, i.e. a clubs season ticket sales and then a list of the clubs games where they posted a figure bellow that figure.

 

So two years ago at some time in the middle of summer at Warrington they posted loads of games below season ticket sales. Shouldn't be to hard for you to find the figures. Look forward to seeing them to analyze.

What Warrington have done is when there has been a sellout, they have announced the capacity of the stadium, even when you can see that there have been a few seats left unoccupied.

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It's exactly the same 45,000 people who bought one ticket for one double-event where you could not buy single or separate tickets. Calling that 90,000 fans is dishonest.

 

All that stuff about season tickets is irrelevent.

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Sorry if that is shouting just pressed the wrong button (a bit touchy ?)

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It's exactly the same 45,000 people who bought one ticket for one double-event where you could not buy single or separate tickets. Calling that 90,000 fans is dishonest.

 

All that stuff about season tickets is irrelevent.

Yep, I agree. Not sure why people are so bothered tbh, personally I am interested in ticket sales, not artificially double counting.

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What Warrington have done is when there has been a sellout, they have announced the capacity of the stadium, even when you can see that there have been a few seats left unoccupied.

 

So that is the opposite of what is being claimed.

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So that is the opposite of what is being claimed.

yes

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There's no standard practice for announcing attendance. Some announce people through the style. Some announce tickets sold.

Me? I'd say you need to actuall ATTEND to be in ATTENDance. It's kind of implied in the name!

Shared gates are different in that you're not sharing the attendance, you're sharing the ticket sales (I assume).

As for the WC. People are confusing event attendances with game attendances. We don't know what the game attendance is at either of the double header games, we only know the overall event attendance. To say 45,052 attended both games is not really true. I know other sports do it, but I don't think that means we ultimately should. It's just more fuel to the criticism fire.

There are 26 events at this WC over 28 games. The overall attendance of the WC event would be those 26 events IMO, so you wouldn't count both games in either the OC or the SFs.

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No one is criticising us for anything currently, we do however have a unique opportunity post. WC to put together a PR stats package that might secure us some sponsors and improved TV deals. When we do that I suggest we do exactly as our competitors would and count the spectators in whichever way makes us look the most attractive proposition. We cannot afford to be pious and lose the benefits we may otherwise accrue. If anyone doesn't like it, please stay quiet until we have gained the funding the sport needs to build on this fabulous world cup. This is the real world, we need to make sure we look good as much as we need to be good, PR matters more than statistical semantics.

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No one is criticising us for anything currently, we do however have a unique opportunity post. WC to put together a PR stats package that might secure us some sponsors and improved TV deals. When we do that I suggest we do exactly as our competitors would and count the spectators in whichever way makes us look the most attractive proposition. We cannot afford to be pious and lose the benefits we may otherwise accrue. If anyone doesn't like it, please stay quiet until we have gained the funding the sport needs to build on this fabulous world cup. This is the real world, we need to make sure we look good as much as we need to be good, PR matters more than statistical semantics.

Are potential sponsors that stupid to not realise a gate has been counted twice in a doubleheader in the aggregate for the tournament?

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Are potential sponsors that stupid to not realise a gate has been counted twice in a doubleheader in the aggregate for the tournament?

They probably expect it since that's what others do. So if we don't they could see us as having a poorer attendance record than they expect.

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The attendance at last year's Challenge Cup final was 160,000 cos 80,000 watched the Under 11s warm up match then another 80,000 watched Wigan v Hull.

 

It's brilliant this because:

 

1. Everyone does it.

2. The sponsors love it.

 

Sheesh.

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The attendance at last year's Challenge Cup final was 160,000 cos 80,000 watched the Under 11s warm up match then another 80,000 watched Wigan v Hull.

 

It's brilliant this because:

 

1. Everyone does it.

2. The sponsors love it.

 

Sheesh.

 

No, the attendance was 80,000 for both, it was the same 80,000 people though.

 

Its bloody simple.

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It's exactly the same 45,000 people who bought one ticket for one double-event where you could not buy single or separate tickets. Calling that 90,000 fans is dishonest.

 

All that stuff about season tickets is irrelevent.

 

An over-the-top example, I admit.

 

But a deal's a deal - who knows how many bought tickets because it was good value for two games ?

 

End of the day, £ is the only true measure.

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End of the day, £ is the only true measure.

Do we count that money twice with so many half-price tickets?

 

AAARGH!

 

:fie:  :suicide:

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Do we count that money twice with so many half-price tickets?

 

AAARGH!

 

:fie:  :suicide:

 

 

Well, that's another issue.  If people get in for nowt, is it "dishonest" to include them in the attendance ?

 

They did attend - but they didn't pay.

 

You decide what the parameters are and interpret the figures accordingly.

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Well, that's another issue.  If people get in for nowt, is it "dishonest" to include them in the attendance ?

 

They did attend - but they didn't pay.

 

You decide what the parameters are and interpret the figures accordingly.

They do however end up writing utter bilge in The Times. :dry:

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No, the attendance was 80,000 for both, it was the same 80,000 people though.

 

Its bloody simple.

 

Woosh

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Wikipedia has now been changed, 91k for the 7 games so far. I think those figures are good, no need for RU style artificial inflation.

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Woosh

NOT

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Wikipedia has now been changed, 91k for the 7 games so far. I think those figures are good, no need for RU style artificial inflation.

Yes, let's leave them to their underhand tricks and substantial sponsorship income. Have you never wondered why they put out endless press releases that trumpet 7.5 billion viewers in 300 countries. Marketing guys don't always read the back up data, they want headlines! If those headlines suggest a thriving sport that has attracted half a million people to it's flagship competition that is far more important than some bizarre desire to be holier than thou in the way we treat statistics.

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The attendance at last year's Challenge Cup final was 160,000 cos 80,000 watched the Under 11s warm up match then another 80,000 watched Wigan v Hull.

It's brilliant this because:

1. Everyone does it.

2. The sponsors love it.

Sheesh.

Not really, because the Under 11s isn't the Challenge Cup Final.

If you wanted to make your point, Magic Weekend would have been better ;)

Game 1: 30,793

Game 2: 30,793

Game 3: 30,793

Game 4: 30,793

Game 5: 31,249

Game 6: 31,249

Game 7: 31,249

So the aggregate attendance for Magic Weekend was apparently 216,919.

Sponsors will be falling over themselves to get involved with that figure!

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Yes, let's leave them to their underhand tricks and substantial sponsorship income. Have you never wondered why they put out endless press releases that trumpet 7.5 billion viewers in 300 countries. Marketing guys don't always read the back up data, they want headlines! If those headlines suggest a thriving sport that has attracted half a million people to it's flagship competition that is far more important than some bizarre desire to be holier than thou in the way we treat statistics.

 

Im not sure you understand how it works at all.

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Im not sure you understand how it works at all.

Based upon my unwillingness to accept figures that make us look less successful? Look at where brutal honesty and straight talking has got us, no sponsorship of our flagship competition and incomes dropping at top clubs. Sally Bolton has played the pr game perfectly so far, if she wants to use a method of counting fans that you disagree with all I'm asking is we don't undermine her efforts

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Based upon my unwillingness to accept figures that make us look less successful? Look at where brutal honesty and straight talking has got us, no sponsorship of our flagship competition and incomes dropping at top clubs. Sally Bolton has played the pr game perfectly so far, if she wants to use a method of counting fans that you disagree with all I'm asking is we don't undermine her efforts

 

No biggie mate. Companies are not so blasé as to accept any old made up figures when deciding where to invest their money for sponsorship. The reason RU gets such a large wedge is nothing to do with made up numbers.

 

I don't think this thread will undermine SB's efforts, will it?

 

FWIW I think RL can look at this WC with all the honesty they want and really use it to promote the game. There's a huge positive vibe coming off it right now.

 

Also. The figures were on wikipedia. Not seen them quoted elsewhere. Now the figures have been corrected to their true size. No harm done.

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