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The Daddy_merged

What now for Italy Rugby League?

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Been a successful past few weeks for the Italia Rugby League team beating England, Wales and lining up a possible quarter final match against New Zealand. Just thinking what could be done or what the plans are, if any to capitalise on what looks like a strong close knit team. 

 

Don't see any reason why we can't see games against England in Italy mid season or we can't develop a Euro nations cup mid season. 

 

Also interested to see what impact this World Cup will have on their domestic leagues.

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Only problem is when proposing a euro tournament how many of the world cup team NRL based would put their hand up to play ? 

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Only problem is when proposing a euro tournament how many of the world cup team NRL based would put their hand up to play ? 

 

That would be the challenge, if most of the team along with those out injured are available then it could work

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They'd have to get time off work to fly to Italy for home games...

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They'd have to get time off work to fly to Italy for home games...

The bigger issue would how many of them would want to play unless it was a world cup ?

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Played around Origin time it might be ok.. If its a pukka International clubs are still required to release players to play, and if injured can only be signed off by the International team doctor.. unless the rules have changed. That being said i sure some NRL clubs would do their best to persuade their players not to play.

This Italian team playing in Italy against England, for instance, would be great to see, and great to build on the work being done over there.

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The bigger issue would how many of them would want to play unless it was a world cup ?

That is it, the World Cup gets everyone looking for a team to play for and asking where their Granddad was from.

How many will want to play a regular game and probably pay their own costs to be there?

The Italian Captain is on 200 pounds a game at this WC.

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Played around Origin time it might be ok.. If its a pukka International clubs are still required to release players to play, and if injured can only be signed off by the International team doctor.. unless the rules have changed. That being said i sure some NRL clubs would do their best to persuade their players not to play.

This Italian team playing in Italy against England, for instance, would be great to see, and great to build on the work being done over there.

Not many English NRL players returned to England this year to play any Tests.

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Played around Origin time it might be ok.. If its a pukka International clubs are still required to release players to play, and if injured can only be signed off by the International team doctor.. unless the rules have changed. That being said i sure some NRL clubs would do their best to persuade their players not to play.

This Italian team playing in Italy against England, for instance, would be great to see, and great to build on the work being done over there.

I don't think Wigan or St Helens will want to release some of their top players half way through Superleague to play for Samoa or Tonga so I can't the NRL clubs doing the same. This is why local players have to be involve in any test matches or world cups for experience.

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italian super league club to add to the catalan weekend trip.proper bl00dy pizzas and non pseudo pasta dishes nice weekend incorporating tour of assissi ,padua lake perry como.yeah we should embrace the italian adventure with gusto.

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This is why we need an international window.. I dont think England played any tests this year did we?.. just exiles, which isnt a test match, otherwise England could have requested the NRL boys to come over.

 

If we want international RL to work the clubs have to give a little.

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This is why we need an international window.. I dont think England played any tests this year did we?.. just exiles, which isnt a test match, otherwise England could have requested the NRL boys to come over.

 

If we want international RL to work the clubs have to give a little.

England played Wales last year and no NRL players were called up.

 

Its not going to happen in reality, has NZ called up SL players for the ANZAC Test often?

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Played around Origin time it might be ok.. If its a pukka International clubs are still required to release players to play, and if injured can only be signed off by the International team doctor.. unless the rules have changed. That being said i sure some NRL clubs would do their best to persuade their players not to play.

This Italian team playing in Italy against England, for instance, would be great to see, and great to build on the work being done over there.

origin time would be worse surely? Teams lose guys to origin who play on a Wednesday and then have a nrl game on the weekend - add internationals and they would have no one else left.

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How many games of competitive rugby league are played in italy each week and how many of these games include italian internationals? I suspect its a very round number. The only reason italy are in the world cup is cos there are a lot of ausies with italian heritage. Who didnt get picked for australia. Horse dead and flogging spring to mind

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With what we've got, the ambition should be to try and have a series of international matches at the same time as Origin. The best bet would be for Super League to take a break and for England to travel down under. Some of our players will be there anyway. We could play the Kiwis whilst Origin is on, and the Pacific Nations, and nations like Italy and USA could play in Australia, with access to Oz based players.

In the UK, the home nations and France could play.

In the autumn, various nations should play, and should have access to all their players, so should be able to play a mix of games at home and abroad.

That is achievable, if funding is available to organise the tours, which don't come cheap.

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Without a strong RL base in Italy there'll be no real progress. Italian-Australians need to be used to assist a national side, not to dominate it. Could an Italian side play in the top French domestic league and over time be Italian dominated? I think, based on what i know, that Super League is way too far off for their development. Southern France would provide a smaller step in standard and far less expense/travel.

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How many games of competitive rugby league are played in italy each week and how many of these games include italian internationals? I suspect its a very round number. The only reason italy are in the world cup is cos there are a lot of ausies with italian heritage. Who didnt get picked for australia. Horse dead and flogging spring to mind

 

That's the spirit.

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Sadly, I don't think an Italian squad of this quality will get together until the next world cup. If they qualify.

One idea would be to have a European Nation Cup, run along the same lines as the world cup, when England play down under.

The one problem would be how to fund it. If the RLIF are now to fund domestic development will there be enough left for organising international tournaments that involve such travel? Italy to play in the Pacific Cup?

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Without a strong RL base in Italy there'll be no real progress. Italian-Australians need to be used to assist a national side, not to dominate it. Could an Italian side play in the top French domestic league and over time be Italian dominated? I think, based on what i know, that Super League is way too far off for their development. Southern France would provide a smaller step in standard and far less expense/travel.

On a pessimistic interpretation of what I've been reading I think international development might mean finding more Italian, Scottish, American, Irish, Pacific island (etc) players from the established professional competitions in Australasia, England. There was a report in one of the Aussies papers that suggested the RLIF were going to allow players to declare for two nations: one of the big three and one of the 'lesser' nations (subject to qualification criteria). The big three would, obviously, have first pick, but if a player missed out then they would be able to opt for their 'second' nation.

Not very credible in a lot of senses, but I think the success of this RLWC - and its success is undoubted in quality of the matches - will have strengthened the chances of this being adopted.

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The problem that I see with Italian RL - and with US RL too - is that there are actually four entities that have to be considered when and simply talking about "Italian RL". If we're not clear about what we're discussing we'll get people talking at cross purposes as the different groups get confused.

 

As I see it (and this is only what I have been able to glean from internet searches) there currently exists;

 

1) Official Domestic Competition (FIRL?)

This is the body the RLEF/RLIF deals with - but the size, strength and quality of the administration has many critics.  Apparently the structure of the organisation is at odds with the wider Italian sports structures (CONI?) and this means it will always struggle for legitimacy within Italian sport.  Accused of being very Australian dominated?

 

2) Unofficial Domestic Competition (FIRFL?)

Set up four years ago as a result of dissatisfaction from clubs with regards to failings within the organisation of the official FIRL.  A quick scan of the internet would seem to show that it is a larger, better organised group.  Has made great strides towards meeting official CONI criteria.....but, because of the split with the FIRL can never meet official standards.

 

Players from this competition are not picked for international teams - even though there is evidence that there may be a player pool of domestic players 5-6 times larger than the official FIRL comp.

 

3) "Domestic" International Team (FIRL)

There have been matches - WC qualification and friendlies - over the years.  A quick scan of the team lists would show that these are not just a collection of players flown over from Australia for the weekend (logistically impossible - even if it were desired).  It would seem that there are FIRL players who have played for Italy...albeit at a lower standard than seen at the current WC.

 

4) "World Cup" International Team

A markedly different squad to the one that won qualification to the WC.  Dominated by heritage players from (mainly) Australia.  Unlikely to ever be able to reform outside of the WC cycle....unless a genuine international window is secured.

 

 

It also seems to me that before ANY other discussion can take place the rift in the domestic organisations has to be settled.  

 

Italy seems to be very close to having a decent, official, amateur structure if the two bodies can be brought together.  For this the RLEF/RLIF have to revisit their current support of the FIRL.

 

Of the four "Italian RL" groups listed above the World Cup International Team is the easiest one to create as it doesn't require the huge investment of time and money that genuine domestic organisations require.  The problem is that the short-sighted behaviour that is typical of RL governing bodies will probably see them happy to pat themselves on the back about the "Success of RL in Italy" (as measured ONLY by what's happened in the past five weeks) and do nothing else.

 

Although it would bring about some criticism I would like to see any Italian RL membership of the RELF suspended until a domestic organisation that meets CONI guidelines applies for membership (even better make membership of CONI a criteria for recognition by RLEF....although I'm aware this would set a precedent for other countries that might not be desirable) .  

 

Get this sorted and then worry about international fixtures.

 

If the vast majority of Italians actually prefer to play within the organisation that, at the moment, isn't eligible for rep honours then that should be a warning sign to the RELF/RILF.

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The problem that I see with Italian RL - and with US RL too - is that there are actually four entities that have to be considered when and simply talking about "Italian RL". If we're not clear about what we're discussing we'll get people talking at cross purposes as the different groups get confused.

 

As I see it (and this is only what I have been able to glean from internet searches) there currently exists;

 

1) Official Domestic Competition (FIRL?)

This is the body the RLEF/RLIF deals with - but the size, strength and quality of the administration has many critics.  Apparently the structure of the organisation is at odds with the wider Italian sports structures (CONI?) and this means it will always struggle for legitimacy within Italian sport.  Accused of being very Australian dominated?

 

2) Unofficial Domestic Competition (FIRFL?)

Set up four years ago as a result of dissatisfaction from clubs with regards to failings within the organisation of the official FIRL.  A quick scan of the internet would seem to show that it is a larger, better organised group.  Has made great strides towards meeting official CONI criteria.....but, because of the split with the FIRL can never meet official standards.

 

Players from this competition are not picked for international teams - even though there is evidence that there may be a player pool of domestic players 5-6 times larger than the official FIRL comp.

 

3) "Domestic" International Team (FIRL)

There have been matches - WC qualification and friendlies - over the years.  A quick scan of the team lists would show that these are not just a collection of players flown over from Australia for the weekend (logistically impossible - even if it were desired).  It would seem that there are FIRL players who have played for Italy...albeit at a lower standard than seen at the current WC.

 

4) "World Cup" International Team

A markedly different squad to the one that won qualification to the WC.  Dominated by heritage players from (mainly) Australia.  Unlikely to ever be able to reform outside of the WC cycle....unless a genuine international window is secured.

 

 

It also seems to me that before ANY other discussion can take place the rift in the domestic organisations has to be settled.  

 

Italy seems to be very close to having a decent, official, amateur structure if the two bodies can be brought together.  For this the RLEF/RLIF have to revisit their current support of the FIRL.

 

Of the four "Italian RL" groups listed above the World Cup International Team is the easiest one to create as it doesn't require the huge investment of time and money that genuine domestic organisations require.  The problem is that the short-sighted behaviour that is typical of RL governing bodies will probably see them happy to pat themselves on the back about the "Success of RL in Italy" (as measured ONLY by what's happened in the past five weeks) and do nothing else.

 

Although it would bring about some criticism I would like to see any Italian RL membership of the RELF suspended until a domestic organisation that meets CONI guidelines applies for membership (even better make membership of CONI a criteria for recognition by RLEF....although I'm aware this would set a precedent for other countries that might not be desirable) .  

 

Get this sorted and then worry about international fixtures.

 

If the vast majority of Italians actually prefer to play within the organisation that, at the moment, isn't eligible for rep honours then that should be a warning sign to the RELF/RILF.

 

 

"Has made great strides towards meeting official CONI criteria.....but, because of the split with the FIRL can never meet official standards."

 

This above information put out by RLEF/FIRL is false. FIRFL can meet CONI standards despite not being under RLEF. There is a few rules, which state this :)

Also FIRFL (unrecognised) now meet minimum CONI requirements.

 

RLEF should have acted strongly at the start.

 

It's a pity the FIRFL players do not have more an opportunity to represent Italy (there has been one match v an International XIII), but they realise they wouldnt have got a shot at RLWC under FIRL.

You will find at least half of "FIRL Euro Shield" teams are still heritage players from UK and France....

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"Has made great strides towards meeting official CONI criteria.....but, because of the split with the FIRL can never meet official standards."

 

This above information put out by RLEF/FIRL is false. FIRFL can meet CONI standards despite not being under RLEF. There is a few rules, which state this :)

I meant that because there were two competing bodies (FIRL and FIRFL) there would not be the possibility of meeting CONI criteria - not that RLEF recognition was needed......however your next line would seem to imply that is incorrect too.

 

Also FIRFL (unrecognised) now meet minimum CONI requirements.

If that is the case is there a time frame for getting formal recognition?  I have to admit I'd prefer to see the FIRFL in control of the Italian RL - given what they have achieved in only four years.

 

RLEF should have acted strongly at the start.

 

It's a pity the FIRFL players do not have more an opportunity to represent Italy (there has been one match v an International XIII), but they realise they wouldnt have got a shot at RLWC under FIRL.

You will find at least half of "FIRL Euro Shield" teams are still heritage players from UK and France....

I don't have a problem with heritage players - and the fact that these were available for the Euro Shield puts them in a different category(in my mind) to players who would only be available during a World Cup.

It would be best if ALL italian players were part of a genuine pyramid from youth teams up to international.

 

Thanks for your reply and good luck with CONI

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"Has made great strides towards meeting official CONI criteria.....but, because of the split with the FIRL can never meet official standards."

 

This above information put out by RLEF/FIRL is false. FIRFL can meet CONI standards despite not being under RLEF. There is a few rules, which state this :)

I meant that because there were two competing bodies (FIRL and FIRFL) there would not be the possibility of meeting CONI criteria - not that RLEF recognition was needed......however your next line would seem to imply that is incorrect too.

 

Also FIRFL (unrecognised) now meet minimum CONI requirements.

If that is the case is there a time frame for getting formal recognition?  I have to admit I'd prefer to see the FIRFL in control of the Italian RL - given what they have achieved in only four years.

 

RLEF should have acted strongly at the start.

 

It's a pity the FIRFL players do not have more an opportunity to represent Italy (there has been one match v an International XIII), but they realise they wouldnt have got a shot at RLWC under FIRL.

You will find at least half of "FIRL Euro Shield" teams are still heritage players from UK and France....

I don't have a problem with heritage players - and the fact that these were available for the Euro Shield puts them in a different category(in my mind) to players who would only be available during a World Cup.

It would be best if ALL italian players were part of a genuine pyramid from youth teams up to international.

 

Thanks for your reply and good luck with CONI

 

 

Just to make it clear have no problem with the heritage players from France/UK (since im the same) playing as long as they are helping with development when in Italy (which most would be) and as long as they are not all named as domestic in press

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With the 2014-15 European Shield doubling up as a 2017 World Cup qualifying tournament, it could be that Italy actually end up playing less games over the next few years. Will they have to qualify though, if their ranking improves significantly as a consequence of their fine performances and results over the past month?

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I think this could be a great opportunity for Italy is they can take a international game to Melbourne. 

Playing to the games strengths, the largest Italian population outside Italy is in Melbourne. 

 

I would try to have Italy play Cook Islands and PNG, even Tonga. A tri-series ? to get people interested. 

 

Plenty would turn up. A great starting level to break the ice. The Italians in Melbourne have not had much to cheer about about from AFL for the last 150 years. 

Maybe rugby league has a opportunity not to be missed here. 

I know if i was Italian, in Melbourne, i would turn up,. ?

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