Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Larry the Leit

Recent immigrants to the UK

173 posts in this topic

of coursse it matters

one instance is abhorrent, many is even more so

does it matter how widespread murder and other violent crime is? Of course it does.

does an epidemic of an illness matter? Of course it does.

*You* asked what parts of their culture should people leave behind in order to integrate. I gave you some examples, you are now ignoring that and trying to include violent crime in the discussion. I am not sure why, well I am. ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*You* asked what parts of their culture should people leave behind in order to integrate. I gave you some examples, you are now ignoring that and trying to include violent crime in the discussion. I am not sure why, well I am. ....

female genital mutilation and forced marriage are both violent crimes and should be treated as suc:h like all violent crimes

 

in my last post I was being allegorical to illustrate the significance of the widespread nature of crimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

female genital mutilation and forced marriage are both violent crimes and should be treated as suc:h like all violent crimes

in my last post I was being allegorical to illustrate the significance of the widespread nature of crimes.

So do you think they should have been left behind or not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why should we be careful about admitting who does it?

We shouldn't. We should name the individuals and IF their crimes are religiously motivated deal with that issue too.

I think you need to be careful and draw a line here. Some murderers happen to be Muslims, just like sexual abusers of children that happen to be Christians, Jews, atheists etc. Unless these sects are encouraging these behaviours in their "teachings" or covering them up within their governance structure then the religion element is a red herring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We shouldn't. We should name the individuals and IF their crimes are religiously motivated deal with that issue too.

I think you need to be careful and draw a line here. Some murderers happen to be Muslims, just like sexual abusers of children that happen to be Christians, Jews, atheists etc. Unless these sects are encouraging these behaviours in their "teachings" or covering them up within their governance structure then the religion element is a red herring.

I actually agree with you. The problem is that a lot of things like honour killings are done on a religious basis and is an integral part of the problem. Not confronting it for fear of upsetting someone or being labelled racist is a recipe for disaster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that a lot of things like honour killings are done on a religious basis

No they're not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm happy to criticise any superstitious sect that impacts it's followers and their offspring in a negative manner. Skin colour or race isn't a one for one relationship with religion. Herein lies perhaps part of the issue, could it be that it just happens that those criticising the Islamic religion so vehemently and regularly just happen to have a good deal of racists within their ranks?

Your last sentence is it in a nutshell. Criticism of Islam comes with having the BNP / NF / EDL "within our ranks" whatever that means. No, it doesn't. If I criticise Islam then it's got nothing to with those groups yet they are a convenient excuse to dodge the issue for many.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where? There was a big turf war on Lumb Lane several years ago between Pakistani gangs and West Indians. This culminated in the petrol bombing of the Young Lions cafe and a shooting. There is no WI presence of note in Manningham any more, it is pretty much a mono culture today.

Did the West Indian's move out because of that ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No they're not.

Yes, most are. If a Muslim girl has a relationship with a 'western' boy, this is not allowed and has led to so called honour killings. Or even something as trivial as wanting a career. Non religious cases do exist but in general it is a religious thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We shouldn't. We should name the individuals and IF their crimes are religiously motivated deal with that issue too.

I think you need to be careful and draw a line here. Some murderers happen to be Muslims, just like sexual abusers of children that happen to be Christians, Jews, atheists etc. Unless these sects are encouraging these behaviours in their "teachings" or covering them up within their governance structure then the religion element is a red herring.

The thing being that the teaching often do, indirectly, encourage such behaviours.

The Imam might never have said that "It's okay to rape kids" (though it would not surprise me). But more than likely he talked about degenerate Western culture and how girls that aren't "modest" are worthless. He may have talked about how sex with those who have passed puberty is okay by Islam even if the government says the girl should be 16 etc etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, most are. If a Muslim girl has a relationship with a 'western' boy, this is not allowed and has led to so called honour killings. Or even something as trivial as wanting a career. Non religious cases do exist but in general it is a religious thing.

I do get your point but you must be willing to accept that it's a very small minority of such things that cause the situation to escalate beyond simple family arguments?  I've been to 3 weddings in the last decade between muslim women and white non-muslim men, in every single case their family were there and two of them even had the local Imam giving a blessing.  A good friend of my wife's is a right party animal girl, bordering on the stereotypical Essex girl image, yet she's a proper daddy's girl with her dad, a very strict muslim who wears the full kit all the time including massive beard.  Most are in the middle of this though, families might not want their muslim daughters going off with white men but most accept it after the arguments cool down.

 

Yes, there are undoubted and utterly unacceptable cases of pathetic individuals trying to protect their "honour" and they rightly get the treatment they deserve in our country.  In some of the cases I've seen, it's naturalised immigrants who do the crimes, my view is that they should be made to serve their sentence in the UK then deported back to their country of residence after having their adopted nationality revoked.  It works quite well in the US most of the time, even though it's caused some genuinely unintended consequences, their view is though that a crime is a crime and if it fits their standards of unacceptability then you're shown the door regardless of how long you've been there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you that it is a very small minority and not an everyday thing. Your experience differs to mine, perhaps its down to other factors like wealth etc but the only lads I have known try to go out with Muslim girls got threatened with knives and the other a machete. My mate is married to an Indian woman and when he lived in an 'asian' area used to get regularly threatened and told to 'leave our women alone' (they assumed she was Muslim). Although I did know a lad whose Dad was Muslim and Mum Christian (practising too, not just nominal) so I suppose it does happen sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you that it is a very small minority and not an everyday thing. Your experience differs to mine, perhaps its down to other factors like wealth etc but the only lads I have known try to go out with Muslim girls got threatened with knives and the other a machete. My mate is married to an Indian woman and when he lived in an 'asian' area used to get regularly threatened and told to 'leave our women alone' (they assumed she was Muslim). Although I did know a lad whose Dad was Muslim and Mum Christian (practising too, not just nominal) so I suppose it does happen sometimes.

I do completely see your point.  My wife's parents are Indian Hindus and my wife has experienced some hostility for her choice of me, most from people who don't know her.

 

I remember one day we were walking in Chelmsford and holding hands.  We walked past an asian man, I'd assume poorer Hindu or lower caste going by his appearance and skin colour (you learn these things over the years...), and he just wouldn't stop staring at us.  He stopped dead in his tracks and just stared open mouthed for quite a while, he even crossed the road so he could keep us in visibility when we went round a slight corner.  That wasn't threatening, just creepy.

 

I think we've been lucky in where we've chosen to live.  Ipswich is a very integrated place where no-one seems to care that you're in a mixed relationship.  If you go down Ipswich high street then you'll see more than a few mixed relationships of all colours, races and cultures and no-one gives them a second look.  There are some places in London though where I'd just not take my wife.

 

My wife's brother simply didn't accept me and I'm sure if he'd been less of a pathetic individual he'd have probably challenged me about her, instead he spent his time trying to convince his parents to "ban" her from seeing me.  As it was, my father-in-law put him squarely in his place and told him that it was none of his business.  My mother-in-law and her family are all very strict Hindus and they've done nothing but be extra supportive of me, including me in their family and making it very clear to everyone that I'm a second son to them.  My brother-in-law is 41, single and the longest I've known him to be dating was 2 weeks before he proposed marriage and was dumped for being a creepy stalker, his views are that he wants a very educated, successful wife who'll give it up on marriage to have lots of sons for him.  It's no wonder he's a disgruntled single bloke who lives on his own.

 

There's the other side though and a rare example of racism I've seen in Scotland.  We had a muslim kid move to our school from Birmingham, he quickly got dating a Scottish girl, the girl was almost instantly moved to a different school with the parents ranting openly in the school hall to the headmaster about him daring to allow these p**i kids into the school and then not stopping them from talking to decent Christian children.  Did he think that his daughter would catch a disease from being near a muslim boy?  It was such a strange thing that I can still picture the dad's flecks of spittle coming from his mouth as he was ranting.

 

I've no idea how to fix the intolerance shown by people to those who dare to be different to them.  If I did, I think I'd win the Nobel Peace Prize unanimously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So do you think they should have been left behind or not?

I dont understand what you mean

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your last sentence is it in a nutshell. Criticism of Islam comes with having the BNP / NF / EDL "within our ranks" whatever that means. No, it doesn't. If I criticise Islam then it's got nothing to with those groups yet they are a convenient excuse to dodge the issue for many.

that's a very good point with which I completely agree

 

it does get a little bit more complex when the BNP/NF/EDL manipulate these issues for their own ends

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do completely see your point.  My wife's parents are Indian Hindus and my wife has experienced some hostility for her choice of me, most from people who don't know her.

 

I'd understand it if it was from people that know you :tongue:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd understand it if it was from people that know you :tongue:

Well, I am something of a catch, you know...  I'd not be surprised at jealousy either. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I've said on here before, my wife is Kalderash Roma and none of her family are claimants, but don't let a cheap stereotype stop you making a point Wolford.

 

 

 

 

http://www.channel4.com/news/immigration-roma-migrants-bulgaria-romania-slovakia-uk

 

Apparently, we have 200,000  recent Roma immigrants. You can bet your life they claimed benefits and housing on arrival. Most probably still are ...

 

 

 

ah ok I was telling porkies then ;)

 

 

 

My wife's brother as an example of her family carries out a traditional "Gypsy" way of life, he's an itinerant farrier and blacksmith, he has an established "round" which lasts him for about 11 months of the year. 

 

He is busy for those months and usually takes 4-5 week off at the peak of winter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He is busy for those months and usually takes 4-5 week off at the peak of winter.

No doubt he uses this period for an intense bout of benefit form filling under multiple identities. He makes me sick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No doubt he uses this period for an intense bout of benefit form filling under multiple identities. He makes me sick.

 

 

:D Strange, he speaks so highly of you (and your band)  B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Hidden by ckn, November 11, 2013 - No reason given

 

My wife's brother as an example of her family carries out a traditional "Gypsy" way of life, he's an itinerant farrier and blacksmith, he has an established "round" which lasts him for about 11 months of the year. 

 

He is busy for those months and usually takes 4-5 week off at the peak of winter.

 

Do Romanian goats need shoeing?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2498479/In-January-thing-left-goat-Romanian-father-sevens-boast-mayor-says-half-population-villages-way-Britain-higher-salaries-generous-benefits.html

Share this post


Link to post

Posted · Hidden by ckn, November 11, 2013 - No reason given

 

 

 I don't suppose you care and I'll put it down to your appalling ignorance but:

 

1 I find that offensive

 

2 I don't see what it has to do with my family

 

3 try this for a stereotype "Taffy was a welshman, Taffy was a thief" not nice eh?

Share this post


Link to post

A number of posts deleted and the thread locked, it's run its course now.

 

I'll make this a public warning as this is a serious point.  There have been a number of posts here and in other threads in the last few months that have pushed the boundaries of taste and decency too far for the way we'd like this forum to run.

 

So... if you're targeting a group of people from one race, religion, creed, colour or even a group of immigrants with a negative point and saying essentially "they're all like that" then you need to consider whether your post is either excessively intolerant or even racist.  There's only so far we'll bend before we start bringing out the bigger moderation tools.

 

Take this as a warning that we're now right at the point where we're sick and fed up of it and might just throw a suspension or ban to the next post that goes over the line.  We have banned a good number of people in the past for overstepping the line on intolerance to other groups in society, I'm not that shy about adding more to that list if needed.

 

Another big point that I think needs reiterating is that the families of forum members are 100% out of bounds for even joking comments unless you personally know them and the member is happy for you to "joke" about the subject.  I think again that we're at the point where the big sticks need to come out.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



League Express - Mon 10th April 2017

Rugby League World - April 2017