Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

John Drake

16/11/13 - World Cup QF3: England v France (Wigan, KO 8pm)

Who will win?   44 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • England by 21 points or more
      30
    • England by 11 to 20 points
      10
    • England by 1 to 10 points
      3
    • France by 1 to 10 points
      0
    • France by 11 to 20 points
      0
    • France by 21 points or more
      1

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

393 posts in this topic

I thought the same thing, the coach could have showed him some respect and said, look you're not in my plans, enjoy your off season with your family, and good luck with your new club next year.  Instead he's dragged him half way across the world for absolutely nothing.

I have thought the same thing.  I don't have a lot of respect for McNamara as it is but his treatment of Widdop, especially given Widdop's ability and experience with one of the best club teams in the world, not to mention the positive difference he made when he came on the pitch in the games he was involved in, has been really poor form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couldn't agree more with this line of opinion . Remember the four nations down under . Widdop played a game then talked proudly about playing the next game at Melbourne with all his family there - and Macnamara dropped him ... And a four nations here where Widdop was barely used and ignored , then brought on in the 80 th minute of a final when we were hammered . He should have told the coach where to go before now and said ' thanks but no thanks ' . His attitude deserves much more , it does stick in my craw .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He hasn't really done anything to earn the respect, his coaching record is poor, and he comes across as having an ego the size of continent.  Not really the ingredients needed to lead men at the highest level.  There are times when I think about letting rip, but hold back, and think okay, let's just see what happens first, and judge him after the tournament is done and dusted, however his decisions make it very hard to keep ones own council!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SM is a joke as a coach,any coach that picks his captain 12 months before a tournament starts especially when its the "snail" Sinfield" needs his head testing.

But when you play him in the halves with the headless chicken Chase you deserve to be criticised

Not to mention his very strange infatuation with average joe Ablett and tiny Farrell

I'm pretty sure we wont win this WC,it might be the player pool we have aint got enough depth,but its been hindered by a totally out of his depth coach

 

I pray to god the RFL don't give him another contract

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't play Widdop and Sinfield in the same team because they're too similar. If you have one of them on the bench then it's a wasted spot. I personally agree that Widdop should be given a chance because I don't think sinfield has done enough so far to warrant his place... But this is the thing, It's difficult to drop your captain.

Relax, it's likely that sinfield will retire after this tournament and Widdop will be king forevermore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't play Widdop and Sinfield in the same team because they're too similar. If you have one of them on the bench then it's a wasted spot. I personally agree that Widdop should be given a chance because I don't think sinfield has done enough so far to warrant his place... But this is the thing, It's difficult to drop your captain.

Relax, it's likely that sinfield will retire after this tournament and Widdop will be king forevermore.

Widdop similar to Sinfield?

No they aren't. That's just not true. Sinfield and Chase have similar impacts on their sides although go about it different ways, I've explained it on another thread and I'll explain it again if you like. Sinfield and Widdop would fit like a glove. Sinfield and Chase doesn't work for many reasons, it has worked in patches but that probably explains why we play well in patches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Widdop should be starting 6 or not in the side as he isn't a bench player, look at the impact Burrow made to the side, Widdop has never had that much impact from the bench.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Widdop should be our number 6 , argue all you want about 7 . I just can't work out out how he's never worked it out . Sinfield is a forward ... Widdop is a top half back . It ain't rocket science but the coach makes a total mess of it . And that's the frustration - after the tournament is to late !! We could do better here if we had a less stubborn coach .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Widdop should be our number 6 , argue all you want about 7 . I just can't work out out how he's never worked it out . Sinfield is a forward ... Widdop is a top half back . It ain't rocket science but the coach makes a total mess of it . And that's the frustration - after the tournament is to late !! We could do better here if we had a less stubborn coach .

Calm down, we are going OK, why the frustration?

I would understand if we had under performed.

Now I will admit we have performed in patches but so has Aus and NZ. we've only svpred2 trys less than Australia but the way people bang on in here you would think we'd hardly scored any trys and are totally void of creativity but that's not the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And people wonder why Brough told Macca to do one...

Any half competent coach would have Widdop 6 & Brough 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A half competent coach wouldn't look at Brough and Widdop and say ' nah , don't rate them ' , but look at Sinfield lol about the park and say ' yes , there's my man to match Cronk and Johnson ! ' . Boy it looks even weirder when you spell it out . And we're doing no more than ok . 3 patches of good play and lots of mediocrity . It's the frustration that he's not making best use of his resources ... And that there's time to change for the big games , but we all know he won't and it'll go belly up again .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We'll beat France barring a right royal effin up.  I just hope the manner is ruthless, clinical, and when we're off in the distance on the scoreboard our attitude is still relentless, and if that situation arises, instead of taking unecessary risks and show boating aka our Benji wannabe, we look to play at an intensity we're going to need for next week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A half competent coach wouldn't look at Brough and Widdop and say ' nah , don't rate them ' , but look at Sinfield lol about the park and say ' yes , there's my man to match Cronk and Johnson ! ' . Boy it looks even weirder when you spell it out . And we're doing no more than ok . 3 patches of good play and lots of mediocrity . It's the frustration that he's not making best use of his resources ... And that there's time to change for the big games , but we all know he won't and it'll go belly up again .

Where did you expect England to be at this stage of the WC? We've easily beaten the teams we expected to beat, got a lot closer than most thought against the best team in the world and have looked very good in certain parts in every game we've played.

Personally I'd have given Widdop more game time but unfortunately for Widdop the guy that replaced him looked far more dangerous in the time he had on the pitch and so doesn't deserve to lose his place, the half backs looked very good in certain parts of the last game as well.

It's almost like you want us to fail so you can gloat. Why not just get behind the team rather than constantly bagging the coach and players who are going ok.

NZ hasn't given a full 80 performance yet they are revered as some kind of wonder team on here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Widdop seems to inspire very deep affection and support. I'm sure it's well meaning, but am struggling to find any definitive evidence in his favour. I can see that people have an opinion, but to entirely discount someone else's view and subject him to relentless personal abuse I'd like more evidence. The sort of stick McNamara is attracting would be warranted if he'd picked Teirney ahead of Tomkins, rather than a player voted Man of Steel ahead of someone who hasn't done a single memorable act in all of his career over here or for England. Burrow caused more havoc in 20 minutes than Widdop has managed in all of his cameos combined. Widdop looks good for the Storm, as indeed did Lima and Finch before him. We have seen first hand how good or otherwise they are in a different context. Much is made of Bellamy's ability to transform players, but that to me is down to 2 factors - the players around them and the environment Bellamy creates. Bellamy, Smith, Cronk and Slater - these are the geniuses. The players around them are good, but above all very lucky to play in that team.

I can see the argument in his favour, but surely even Gareth's biggest fans can see that picking a player awarded the Golden Boot alongside a recent Man of Steel (neither awards having been given by McNamara himself) is hardly the act of a madman.

Am guessing we'll be here again this time next week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

come on, you're a wiganer shurely you know more about rugby than this?  We'll see how each does next year at their new clubs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way i am not a widdop fanboy, merely putting forward my conclusions after seeing them both play over the last few years.  it is clear you haven't seen widdop regularly, and are judging the two wearing your super league specs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

come on, you're a wiganer shurely you know more about rugby than this? We'll see how each does next year at their new clubs.

So why not comment on his actual points?

Widdop is a great player and it will be interesting how he goes next year at St George.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way i am not a widdop fanboy, merely putting forward my conclusions after seeing them both play over the last few years. it is clear you haven't seen widdop regularly, and are judging the two wearing your super league specs.

But you have to take in account the team Widdop has been playing in and tge personnel he has been surrounded with, as I say it will be interesting to see how he goes next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So why not comment on his actual points?

Widdop is a great player and it will be interesting how he goes next year at St George.

I did on the last page, so no point going through it again.   keep up.

 

you're right it will be interesting to see how he goes, i said that too, that was on this page.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you have to take in account the team Widdop has been playing in and tge personnel he has been surrounded with, as I say it will be interesting to see how he goes next year.

so explain to me why you would leave out a player, who plays in a playmaking role alongside the 3 best players in the world, who this year has progressed enough to make his own mark on that team, inspite of the class around him,  why you would not have in your team the one player that knows them inside out, that will read almost everything they will do, and knows their weaknesses more than anyone else, because i cannot understand that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Widdop seems to inspire very deep affection and support. I'm sure it's well meaning, but am struggling to find any definitive evidence in his favour. I can see that people have an opinion, but to entirely discount someone else's view and subject him to relentless personal abuse I'd like more evidence. The sort of stick McNamara is attracting would be warranted if he'd picked Teirney ahead of Tomkins, rather than a player voted Man of Steel ahead of someone who hasn't done a single memorable act in all of his career over here or for England. Burrow caused more havoc in 20 minutes than Widdop has managed in all of his cameos combined. Widdop looks good for the Storm, as indeed did Lima and Finch before him. We have seen first hand how good or otherwise they are in a different context. Much is made of Bellamy's ability to transform players, but that to me is down to 2 factors - the players around them and the environment Bellamy creates. Bellamy, Smith, Cronk and Slater - these are the geniuses. The players around them are good, but above all very lucky to play in that team.

I can see the argument in his favour, but surely even Gareth's biggest fans can see that picking a player awarded the Golden Boot alongside a recent Man of Steel (neither awards having been given by McNamara himself) is hardly the act of a madman.

Am guessing we'll be here again this time next week.

The point about Burrow making more of an impact is an irrelevant one personally, as Widdop isn't an impact player. Burrow would make more of an impact than Cooper Cronk in a 20 minute spell, does this mean he is a better player? Not at all.

You ask for a point about Widdop, but the only thing you can generally do is use stats which are hardly fair in comparison between SL and NRL as they are completely different competitions.

Things Widdop has in his favour though are:

He has held down a number 6 jersey at arguably the best club side over the last 2 and a bit years.

He has been offered a mega deal at a club which got rid of Rangi Chase as he wasn't good enough.

He has experience at playing against sides at a much higher intensity. The line speed of NRL sides is most of the time quicker than SL sides, this is why Chase struggles at international level whilst Widdop will be used to reading the game at a much quicker pace.

Brett Finch hasn't even been considered playing ahead of him since he returned to Melbourne. Finch was consistently outplaying Chase in the 2012 season, I'm sure you would agree with that.

Widdop has the ability to break down the best of sides. Check the NRL Grand Final 2012 in Melbourne's first try, he has the ability to perfectly time a pass which can break down any side.

Other than the points made above if you watch Widdop play he has the ability to read a game. I think this is where a lot of our half backs struggle, Sinfield has the ability (sadly not the pace) Brough has the ability (been messed about) Briers had the ability (shame he isn't in his prime and playing for England) and Widdop has the ability to. Matty Smith and Richie Myler are learning quickly.

You can just see that Widdop is the better all round player. Yes Chase offers something different, but it isn't good enough to win games at the highest level hence why he isn't wanted by an NRL club. Widdops ability is good enough, hence why an NRL club has paid big money for his services.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i am of course assuming we will go beyond the semi finals, which will be our first real test.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All this stuff about leaving widdop down under - maybe mcnamara thinks widdop is the second best stand off available and so wants him in the squad? And maybe, just maybe he told widdop that but widdop wanted to come and help England however he could and however the coach saw best fit. To be honest if he hadn't have come because he is (rightly or wrongly) second choice at stand off, I would've thought him a bit of a prat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point about Burrow making more of an impact is an irrelevant one personally, as Widdop isn't an impact player. Burrow would make more of an impact than Cooper Cronk in a 20 minute spell, does this mean he is a better player? Not at all.

You ask for a point about Widdop, but the only thing you can generally do is use stats which are hardly fair in comparison between SL and NRL as they are completely different competitions.

Things Widdop has in his favour though are:

He has held down a number 6 jersey at arguably the best club side over the last 2 and a bit years.

He has been offered a mega deal at a club which got rid of Rangi Chase as he wasn't good enough.

He has experience at playing against sides at a much higher intensity. The line speed of NRL sides is most of the time quicker than SL sides, this is why Chase struggles at international level whilst Widdop will be used to reading the game at a much quicker pace.

Brett Finch hasn't even been considered playing ahead of him since he returned to Melbourne. Finch was consistently outplaying Chase in the 2012 season, I'm sure you would agree with that.

Widdop has the ability to break down the best of sides. Check the NRL Grand Final 2012 in Melbourne's first try, he has the ability to perfectly time a pass which can break down any side.

Other than the points made above if you watch Widdop play he has the ability to read a game. I think this is where a lot of our half backs struggle, Sinfield has the ability (sadly not the pace) Brough has the ability (been messed about) Briers had the ability (shame he isn't in his prime and playing for England) and Widdop has the ability to. Matty Smith and Richie Myler are learning quickly.

You can just see that Widdop is the better all round player. Yes Chase offers something different, but it isn't good enough to win games at the highest level hence why he isn't wanted by an NRL club. Widdops ability is good enough, hence why an NRL club has paid big money for his services.

1) I can't see how Burrow making a greater impact as a sub in a spine position is irrelevant. It's directly on the point.

2) Finch certainly did not make a greater impact than Chase in his time over here. The opposite was clearly the case, given one's MoS award.

3) As for their relative values to St George, who have hardly had a 100% success rate with half backs, I don't know enough about thee rest of their team to comment. Sometimes teams value some attributes above others. Benji is leaving Wests, having been the architect in the past of a World Cup win and a 4 Nations victory. My suspicion is that structure is very highly valued in the NRL. My opinion is that we won't beat the Aussies by out-muscling or out-structuring them, hence I can see the logic behind McNamara's thinking.

4) Fundamentally, I can see there are 2 sides to this. But it is absurdly hysterical to conclude that McNamara is a dreadful coach because of his treatment of Widdop - not that I am saying you have been so, but others have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All this stuff about leaving widdop down under - maybe mcnamara thinks widdop is the second best stand off available and so wants him in the squad? And maybe, just maybe he told widdop that but widdop wanted to come and help England however he could and however the coach saw best fit. To be honest if he hadn't have come because he is (rightly or wrongly) second choice at stand off, I would've thought him a bit of a prat

True, maybe Widdop has got a good attitude and actually wants to help his country in any shape possible and is happy to play whatever part the coach wants, real shame other half backs weren't so professional and commited.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



Rugby League World - April 2017

League Express - Mon 10th April 2017