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Joe Whitley

Do England have a chance?

ENG v NZ   61 members have voted

  1. 1. Can England defeat New Zealand in the RLWC2013 semi-final?

    • Yes, they can cope with the Kiwis
    • No chance, this is the end of the road
    • Too close to call

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37 posts in this topic

England will face arguably the toughest challenge of their RLWC2013 campaign so far when they take on reigning champions New Zealand in the first semi-final at 1.00pm on Saturday.

 

The bookies have installed the in-form Kiwis as 4/9 favourites, while England are clear outsiders at 9/4.

 

Is this an accurate reflection of what you think will happen? Or are the bookmakers underestimating England? Let us know by voting on our poll.

 

 

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According to those odds that is:-

 

70% chance of NZ winning

30% chance of England winning

 

After that the odds are dictated by where the money goes.  NZ will be favourites because more money has been wagered on them than England.

The bookie couldn't care less who wins, as they've already factored in their profit in the prices offered on all sides of the bet, it's just a case of keeping all sides balanced in their favour, so they profit no matter what happens.

 

All these people on here that think England will beat NZ should snap that 9/4 up!!

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Despite my criticism of the coach & the halves combination, the thought of the semi final is now really revving me up - we have a great chance.

BUT we have to compete for the full 80 & we have to get off to a fantastic start

It's going to be a long week.............

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Despite my criticism of the coach & the halves combination, the thought of the semi final is now really revving me up - we have a great chance.

BUT we have to compete for the full 80 & we have to get off to a fantastic start

It's going to be a long week.............

I am looking forward to this game immensely, but do I think we will be victorious NO, Our players on the whole are neither collectively or individually (given the odd exception) are of the quality of their opposites, and I would also say that our 3 year old game plan administered by our coach will bring no surprises to NZ, after all they have seen it performed by his teams as everyone else has for the last 3 years, so no surprises there.

Quite a lot of people pre-tournament were waxing lyrical of how we now had some guys experienced in the NRL, playing in pressure situation each week - which is good, but by my reckoning it totals some 7 years, that being between the three Burgess boy's and Graham, hopefully that experience could be added to with the inclusion of Widdop but I somehow doubt that he will be employed has that contradicts the 3 year plan.The Kiwi's are completely au-fait with the pressure and intensity that this game will bring and that will also add to their armoury.

Some posters on this site have also suggested that the Kiwi's will run out of steam in the second half, do they honestly believe that or is this in my opinion clutching at straws looking for a weakness to exploit? Hopefully the English boys will grow an extra arm and leg in their quest for victory, but so till will the Kiwi's, it's their crown to lose and I am sure they will not be relinquishing it quietly.

If I selected a team including 4 subs that had to be chosen from the two squads, my only inclusions from the English team would be, Tomkins, Hall, S. Burgess and Roby with the latter 2 staring on the bench.

Like I said I am really looking forward to the game and over 80 mins who knows what will happen, hopefully we will be victorious and those in opposition to my opinion can hang me from the highest yardarm, but somehow I doubt that I will be taking much flak.

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We have th eplayers but we don't have the structure or tactics to beat them. If we go a try or two down we don't have a coach who knows how to change things an dget back in the game, will just be relying on moments of brilliance from individual players. I'm going with the pessimist is never dissapointed role here. But on the bright side should we lose it means I can go and enjoy the final without the nerves.

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We have th eplayers but we don't have the structure or tactics to beat them. If we go a try or two down we don't have a coach who knows how to change things an dget back in the game, will just be relying on moments of brilliance from individual players. I'm going with the pessimist is never dissapointed role here. But on the bright side should we lose it means I can go and enjoy the final without the nerves.

So Goosey, do you consider that if we had say Craig Bellamy in charge we would have a WC winning team with the same personnel out on the pitch?

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So Goosey, do you consider that if we had say Craig Bellamy in charge we would have a WC winning team with the same personnel out on the pitch?

 

We'd have a btter chance, someone who coul dget the best use out of his personnel yes. It's 13 against 13 on the pitch and we can match both Aus and NZ on paper, but it's about been able to use the interchanges effectively isn't it? reading the game unfolding and make changes to counter act or finish off the opposition. I don't want to get into a SM slating arguement but from watching Bulls at his time there he never seemed to know how to change things, stuck with plan A no matter what.

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Everyone needs to stand up and be counted now. No room for any weak performers.

I think you are 100% correct here.

 

The player that everyone expected to take this tournament by storm, Sam Burgess, has been no better than the majority of forwards in the WC. In fact, I would say that he has been behind a number of players, such as Ferres and O'Loughlin, in his impact on the games so far.

 

It is now time for him to step up. I know he can't beat them on his own, but if we are to have any chance then we need him at his intimidating best. If we are to beat NZ on Saturday then we need to be talking about how Burgess is doing what he has been doing to NRL players, in attack and defence for the last two years. A bog standard performance from him, like the ones we have seen so far, will not get us where we need to be.

 

The same should be said for James Graham. Someone needs to get get the snarl back on his face. His play has been effective, but lacking in the mongrel we used to see most weeks in SL.

 

One up bashes from our forwards will be eaten up all day by NZ. We need to get our forwards to play to their strengths, which means unleashing the likes of Burgess and Westwood to do a bit of damage. Yes this will increase the chances of giving a few penalties away, but if we have an Aussie ref in charge we will get battered in that department anyway. Might as well make them count.

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Best price on England currently is 12/5 (i.e. you'd get a return of £34 for a £10 bet. We're 8pt underdogs on the handicap, which feels spot on to me.

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According to those odds that is:-

 

70% chance of NZ winning

30% chance of England winning

 

After that the odds are dictated by where the money goes.  NZ will be favourites because more money has been wagered on them than England.

The bookie couldn't care less who wins, as they've already factored in their profit in the prices offered on all sides of the bet, it's just a case of keeping all sides balanced in their favour, so they profit no matter what happens.

 

All these people on here that think England will beat NZ should snap that 9/4 up!!

 

Which is easier said than done!

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We'd have a btter chance, someone who coul dget the best use out of his personnel yes. It's 13 against 13 on the pitch and we can match both Aus and NZ on paper, but it's about been able to use the interchanges effectively isn't it? reading the game unfolding and make changes to counter act or finish off the opposition. I don't want to get into a SM slating arguement but from watching Bulls at his time there he never seemed to know how to change things, stuck with plan A no matter what.

It's probably for another thread but I always maintained that for all his success as a coach at Bradford Nobby Noble had the same trait, and when plan A failed he would revert to plan A, wouldn't he just love having this Kiwi side to coach.

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Some good points being raised here.

 

 

A few of you have mentioned how important it is for England to maintain their intensity over 80 minutes, but what other weaknesses do you see in the side? Are you happy with Chase and Sinfield as a half-back pairing? Should Gareth Widdop be given a chance? If you were McNamara, what changes would you make ahead of the semi-final? 

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 If you were McNamara, what changes would you make ahead of the semi-final? 

 

I personally would change the half backs who haven't done anything this tournament. I would also have 4 props in the 17 rather then 4 second rowers.

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I personally would change the half backs who haven't done anything this tournament. I would also have 4 props in the 17 rather then 4 second rowers.

 

Who would you play at 6 and 7, then? 

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Who would you play at 6 and 7, then? 

 

Widdop and Burrow.

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This is very unpatriotic of me, but I hope England lose! I want to see this Kiwi team face the Aussies at Old Trafford in what could be one of the greatest games of all time!

If England get there we will lose comfortably.

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It's probably for another thread but I always maintained that for all his success as a coach at Bradford Nobby Noble had the same trait, and when plan A failed he would revert to plan A, wouldn't he just love having this Kiwi side to coach.

Yep I agree with that, Noble was fortunate enough to inherit a team that had class all the way through it and had been built by Smith. Don't think he considered a plan B, he didn't have to. He hasn't set the world alight elsewhere he has coached. Reminds me of David O'Leary at Leeds Untied, all the work was done for him, so he just said to his players, go play.

 

Widdop would be ideal for us to beat the Kiwi's he exapnds our game, and is quick enough to get away from the ruck and defenders thus creating space for S Burgess running wide, where he has room to take on the Kiwis and offload to the backs. As said elsewhere the key is to tire out Luke in by making him work in defense, that way he's distracted and his dummy half runs will be cut back. Sinfield doesn't have the pace and if we keep coming back into the Kiwi pack we'll get nothing but tired and battered forwards.

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We will smash the kiwis, then run over the kangaroos. This conitiki tour will be taking its toll on both teams

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Last time we played NZ we had 2 props, a 2nd row and Widdop on the bench.

 

Barring injury to Widdop I don't think anything will have changed

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Of course we have a chance and though I think it will be close I see NZ progressing.

Hope Im wrong obviously but just do not see The Kiwis blowing the chances out wide

as the French did.

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Some good points being raised here.

A few of you have mentioned how important it is for England to maintain their intensity over 80 minutes, but what other weaknesses do you see in the side? Are you happy with Chase and Sinfield as a half-back pairing? Should Gareth Widdop be given a chance? If you were McNamara, what changes would you make ahead of the semi-final?

I will be amazed if SM changes the halves now... Even though he needs to...

I'm covering my potential disappointment with a few quid on NZ - if we lose we will lose it in the halves as we will start with a slow, average hooker type & a mad rascal

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