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Joe Whitley

Playing the blame game

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England's cruel World Cup exit yesterday nearly brought me to tears (no lie, it's the worst I've felt since Gareth Southgate missed that penalty in Euro '96), and like any other invested fan I was left thinking what might have been.

 

On my Twitter feed, though, I noticed a lot of people trying to assign blame. I am interested to hear what you all think of the following three incidents that could have potentially changed the outcome of the game. Personally, I think all three were 'just one of those things' and wouldn't like to single out anyone for losing the match. It was seriously unfortunate and not what any of the team deserved. 

 

Item #1

George Burgess' late high tackle

Was it careless and stupid or simply a product of the lad working himself to the bone and being too tired to do anything else?

 

Item #2 

Kevin Sinfield's charge off the line

Did it leave a massive gap for Johnson to score or was it a necessity as they were extremely vulnerable anyway?

 

Item #3

Ryan Hall's interception-fumble

Should he have taken it cleanly or left it altogether? Did it make a difference?

 

 

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The way the BBC broadcast director focussed in relentlessly on George Burgess at the end of the game was voyeuristic. He/she should be ashamed and moved to studio projects, because he/she knows nothing about team sport. England lost as a team; they would have won as a team but got beaten as the result of two pieces of individual NZ flair.

 

To try and wordlessly pillory a young lad who had put his body on the line for his country ... and probably earned less for this tournament than the BBC OB director was shameful.

 

I wonder if  it was the same director who got Tanya Arnold to quiz Sam Tomkin about  the NRL immediately after the Cup Final. No sense of occasion and definitely no class.

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I'm like you in that I have the attitude of 'one of those things' - there are loads of mistakes each game, some are more crucial than others, but hey, that's RL.

 

On the actual events, I do think there were more to add to the above. 

 

Ryan Hall's defensive read for a Kiwi try was poor, and he does have that in his game.

 

Kevin Sinfield's poor kick option with 2 minutes to go was more crucial than most things. It was 78 mins gone. It was the difference between the Kiwis having 1 set or 2. They needed 2 sets to score.

 

The fact is that mistakes happen, that's why sport is so exciting, we are seeing human beings put their body on the line and push themselves physically and mentally. You can point to events and discuss them and assign 'blame' but it is wrong to criticise the players - they all did their best and it was very very nearly good enough.

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I don't blame anybody and put it down to an epic battle between two sides that threw everything they had at each other which produced that amazing last minute passage of play, Quite simply a sporting encounter played at its very peak and maximum level.

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The way the BBC broadcast director focussed in relentlessly on George Burgess at the end of the game was voyeuristic. He/she should be ashamed and moved to studio projects, because he/she knows nothing about team sport. England lost as a team; they would have won as a team but got beaten as the result of two pieces of individual NZ flair.

 

To try and wordlessly pillory a young lad who had put his body on the line for his country ... and probably earned less for this tournament than the BBC OB director was shameful.

 

I wonder if  it was the same director who got Tanya Arnold to quiz Sam Tomkin about  the NRL immediately after the Cup Final. No sense of occasion and definitely no class.

 

I couldn't agree more. He was constantly taking the ball in and making key tackles. It was so unfortunate that it happened to him. You must bear in mind, too, he was tackling Sonny Bill Williams and probably trying to stop him offloading. So sad.

 

I agree on the BBC front, too. Very poor effort from that point of view. Though saying that I was quite impressed with the commentators. 

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I'm like you in that I have the attitude of 'one of those things' - there are loads of mistakes each game, some are more crucial than others, but hey, that's RL.

 

On the actual events, I do think there were more to add to the above. 

 

Ryan Hall's defensive read for a Kiwi try was poor, and he does have that in his game.

 

Kevin Sinfield's poor kick option with 2 minutes to go was more crucial than most things. It was 78 mins gone. It was the difference between the Kiwis having 1 set or 2. They needed 2 sets to score.

 

The fact is that mistakes happen, that's why sport is so exciting, we are seeing human beings put their body on the line and push themselves physically and mentally. You can point to events and discuss them and assign 'blame' but it is wrong to criticise the players - they all did their best and it was very very nearly good enough.

 

I agree. You could also add into the mix Sinfield's missed conversion that wasn't too difficult. And while we're at it, Leroy Cudjoe failed to stop both Tuivasa-Sheck tries when he got to him at least five metres out. But as you all rightly say, it's a team game and mistakes are just part of it. It's such a shame, though - imagine what it would have done for the UK's appreciation of RL if we got to the final and maybe won it...

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I don't blame anybody and put it down to an epic battle between two sides that threw everything they had at each other which produced that amazing last minute passage of play, Quite simply a sporting encounter played at its very peak and maximum level.

 

That's definitely the best way of looking at it, Walter. Just chatting in the office and I genuinely think it was up there with the best games I have ever had the pleasure of watching - regardless of sport.

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O'Loughlin - 2 silly penalties in quick succession

o'Loughlin - dropped ball on first tackle in NZ 20, 3 yds out

Tomkins - dropped ball on first tackle - NZ scored straight after

You can look absolutely all over the place but I really don't get the point of this thread.

Unles of course you want to blame Wigan based n the above! :)

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You could also mention O'Loughlin's two knock-ons.

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That's definitely the best way of looking at it, Walter. Just chatting in the office and I genuinely think it was up there with the best games I have ever had the pleasure of watching - regardless of sport.

Yep, it's up their with italia 90' semi-final, euro 96' semi-final and the 2nd test at old Trafford in the 1990 ashes series for me, sporting occasions that leave you shaking for days.

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I blame Roby for passing to Sinfield on the short side leaving no room for anything other than the kick he did.

I blame Widdop for the centerfield bomb on the 75th minute.

I Blame Blah blah blah

 

I'm sorry, Is this another thread on the same subject?  It was a great game, leave it!

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I blame Roby for passing to Sinfield on the short side leaving no room for anything other than the kick he did.

I blame Widdop for the centerfield bomb on the 75th minute.

I Blame Blah blah blah

 

I'm sorry, Is this another thread on the same subject?  It was a great game, leave it!

This attitude is frustrating. Are we so insecure we can't discuss events of the game?

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This attitude is frustrating. Are we so insecure we can't discuss events of the game?

Discussion is great.  It's the picking on individual players, one play, negative one eyed rubbish that is annoying. 

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Discussion is great.  It's the picking on individual players, one play, negative one eyed rubbish that is annoying. 

But read the thread - that hasn't happened.

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No. Though to pick on individual incidents as if the player either made a mistake or somehow could have avoided making one and then relating them to the eventual outcome is not in my view logical.To play the " if only" game you also have to say"if only Mrs Burgess had 13 children."

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No. Though to pick on individual incidents as if the player either made a mistake or somehow could have avoided making one and then relating them to the eventual outcome is not in my view logical.To play the " if only" game you also have to say"if only Mrs Burgess had 13 children."

Players did make mistakes.

 

Are we not allowed to discuss them?

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O'Loughlin - 2 silly penalties in quick succession

o'Loughlin - dropped ball on first tackle in NZ 20, 3 yds out

Tomkins - dropped ball on first tackle - NZ scored straight after

You can look absolutely all over the place but I really don't get the point of this thread.

Unles of course you want to blame Wigan based n the above! :)

 

The point of the thread is to discover what people thought - should blame be assigned or is it 'just one of those things'.

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Yep, it's up their with italia 90' semi-final, euro 96' semi-final and the 2nd test at old Trafford in the 1990 ashes series for me, sporting occasions that leave you shaking for days.

  

Exactly. I was laid in bed last night reliving every pass!

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Yes. Of course. Just don't expect a sympathetic hearing. For each mistake an English player made, a Kiwis player made one too. Look at the big picture.

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This attitude is frustrating. Are we so insecure we can't discuss events of the game?

 

+1

 

We are only interested to hear what people think, no need to try shoot the thread down!

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Fine, discuss mistakes away on this and all the other threads.

 

The negative threads are popular so lets do a few more. 

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Yes. Of course. Just don't expect a sympathetic hearing. For each mistake an English player made, a Kiwis player made one too. Look at the big picture.

But what has that got to do with it?

 

We don't discuss enough RL action on here and when people try they get moaned at. The match thread was the same, there as a feeling that you couldn't say anything slightly critical as the players were heroic.

 

Surely the post-mortem is part of the fun? The debate about whether Sinfield should have rammed the ball into touch, or Hall should have held his wing position, etc. 

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Fine, discuss mistakes away on this and all the other threads.

 

The negative threads are popular so lets do a few more. 

We lost a game - isn't it natural to look at turning points in the game?

 

I haven't heard anybody say anything negative about the match, it was completely brilliant, I'm not sure why some people want to censor mention of poor play or errors.

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I was simply numb at the hooter yesterday. Part of that was that there was no one to blame. None of the players, not the coach, the weather, not even the ref. Things happen.

As heartbreaking as it was yesterday, and watching it on Sky+ this morning didn't help my mood, we gave our all and just, just came up short.

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The team were not good enough on the day to finish the opposition off

 

The blaming of individuals gets right on my nerves

 

They were a hell of a lot closer to beating them than I ever imagined or gave them credit for

 

I am to blame for not getting 100% behind the team...perhaps that puts doubt in their minds? As it probably does in my own team Leigh, when I fail to attend or back them when they are down

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