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JohnM

Scottish Independence Referendum

Should Scotland be an independent country?   55 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Scotland be an independent country?

    • Yes
      27
    • No
      28

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1,134 posts in this topic

after 15 minutes I switched to "New Tricks" . There is just so much anyone can take of the dissembling of Salmond. Its clear, though that he has been taking lessons - stepping away from his podium and addressing the audience members by their first names. Why bother? Most people I know want him to ###### off and ###### off now..and take his lies, his nation, his MPs in Westminster and his haggis with him.

I'd love to be able to vote for independence from you!

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I'm watching the replay now. Darling got a right kicking. Darling was waffling some right rubbish that fell into Salmond's hands all the way through. The NATO point was a perfect example where Darling said it was a nuclear alliance despite the large majority of NATO being non-nuclear.

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It'd be a massively sad day if Scotland went independent but if I had a vote then I'd vote yes.

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I'd love to be able to vote for independence from you!

You can,you can! Just hit the ignore button...Please!!!!!

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Was interesting (funny?) to hear Darling saying that the coalition had increased spending on the NHS.  He wouldn't say that south of the border!

 

It was less a debate about Scotland as an independent country, more of a 'do you want the SNP or the tories' debate.  Salmond knows the anit-westminster/tories/old boys club line works the best and he hit that from the off.

 

He was dodgier on how to replace 8000 jobs at Faslane.

 

He answered the currency question - Plan A is a currency union.  Plan B is use the pound and don't take any of the UK's debt.

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He answered the currency question - Plan A is a currency union. Plan B is use the pound and don't take any of the UK's debt.

Hes already been told he cant have plan A. Plan B would cripple Scotland, tying Scotland to economic policy they've no control over, the money markets would make Scotland suffer with cost of borrowing for a debt default. Plan C would be Euro and that wouldn't bear thinking about with the terms and conditions of membership.

One thing I'll give Gordon Brown for is not joining the Euro.

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Hes already been told he cant have plan A. Plan B would cripple Scotland, tying Scotland to economic policy they've no control over, the money markets would make Scotland suffer with cost of borrowing for a debt default. Plan C would be Euro and that wouldn't bear thinking about with the terms and conditions of membership.

One thing I'll give Gordon Brown for is not joining the Euro.

 

He needs the pound to reassure the 'undecided' that independence would be no different than now.  Hence his line on pay packets, etc.

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Anyone over 50 should not be allowed a vote on this. Because when the S hits the fan they will be long gone.

Bloody foreigners

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Hes already been told he cant have plan A. Plan B would cripple Scotland, tying Scotland to economic policy they've no control over, the money markets would make Scotland suffer with cost of borrowing for a debt default. Plan C would be Euro and that wouldn't bear thinking about with the terms and conditions of membership.

One thing I'll give Gordon Brown for is not joining the Euro.

Why would it be a debt default?  It's a sterling debt held by the Bank of England.  Remember that it's the Bank of England in name only, it's actually a central bank that was funded by combining the assets of the English and Scottish banks in the late 18th century.  If the Westminster government defaults on its obligation to allow Scotland to use the BoE as a central bank then why should Scotland take the BoE's debts?  It'd be like a divorce where one party gets to keep the bank accounts with all the savings in it while the other still gets lumbered with the family's debt.

 

The Westminster lot are acting like a spurned partner "No, that's mine, and that, and that, and you're not getting that even though it's yours".  If there is a Yes vote then it should be a civilised divorce of nations between friends rather than used as a petulant battlefield.

 

Anyway, even if the capital markets did take the highly irrational route of wanting to "punish" Scotland, why would Scotland care?  They'd have no debt, therefore as long as they keep a balanced budget then they'd not need to borrow money from the world's Scrooges.  When you don't have the burden of a massive debt then it's far easier to balance the books when you don't have to put aside money for capital payments and interest.

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Somebody told me that out of all the referendums (referendi?) that have taken place for independence, no country has ever rejected it.

If this is true Scotland would be the first.

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Somebody told me that out of all the referendums (referendi?) that have taken place for independence, no country has ever rejected it.

If this is true Scotland would be the first.

The one thing the Better Together team have done well is make this about Salmond and the SNP rather than Scottish independence.  There are a good few people who short-sightedly may vote No just to spite Salmond but forget that a large part of the reason for the SNP will disappear if the Yes vote wins.  Labour can be Scottish Labour without being tied to the very southern viewpoint of the current Labour cabinet.  The Tories can be Scottish Conservatives, divorce themselves from the toxic legacy of Thatcher and burn any pictures of Cameron and Boris that just wind up Scottish people.  The Lib Dems might even continue with a bit of relevance!  Who knows what the first election after independence would bring and it certainly won't be the same in 10/20/30/50/100 years.

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Having the currency by the BofE, with no thought of Scottish interests is not something that can be avoided by voting no.

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There's absolutely no reason why they couldn't use the pound, although I doubt that the Clydesdale, Royal and Bank of Scotland would still be able to issue currency.  I went to Cuba and if you're a foreigner you pay for everything in cash, in dollars, they aren't interested in the peso. You take US dollars, I'm sure there are other places like that.  Perhaps Scotland could be one of them?

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There's absolutely no reason why they couldn't use the pound, although I doubt that the Clydesdale, Royal and Bank of Scotland would still be able to issue currency.  I went to Cuba and if you're a foreigner you pay for everything in cash, in dollars, they aren't interested in the peso. You take US dollars, I'm sure there are other places like that.  Perhaps Scotland could be one of them?

 

Ecuador has no currency of it's own, they use the US Dollar.

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There's absolutely no reason why they couldn't use the pound, although I doubt that the Clydesdale, Royal and Bank of Scotland would still be able to issue currency.  I went to Cuba and if you're a foreigner you pay for everything in cash, in dollars, they aren't interested in the peso. You take US dollars, I'm sure there are other places like that.  Perhaps Scotland could be one of them?

 

They could.  Would be the end of the financial industry?  No bank of last resort? 

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Ecuador has no currency of it's own, they use the US Dollar.

Maybe that could be Salmond's Plan B then?  Think Obama might go with it?

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If they go, we could stay on BST all year round instead of switching in winter to GMT.

Apparently we do it to help the Scots cope with the longer nights in the Northern latitudes.

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If they go, we could stay on BST all year round instead of switching in winter to GMT.

Apparently we do it to help the Scots cope with the longer nights in the Northern latitudes.

I'd prefer to stay on GMT all year round.... just because I work in GMT...

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A currency union is great for Scotland.  It isn't great for the rUK.  Why would we want to cover the debts of another country?  Or cover their banks? 

 

The SNP need the pound to convince the 'don't knows' that it will be a seamless split. 

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The one thing the Better Together team have done well is make this about Salmond and the SNP rather than Scottish independence.  There are a good few people who short-sightedly may vote No just to spite Salmond but forget that a large part of the reason for the SNP will disappear if the Yes vote wins.  Labour can be Scottish Labour without being tied to the very southern viewpoint of the current Labour cabinet.  The Tories can be Scottish Conservatives, divorce themselves from the toxic legacy of Thatcher and burn any pictures of Cameron and Boris that just wind up Scottish people.  The Lib Dems might even continue with a bit of relevance!  Who knows what the first election after independence would bring and it certainly won't be the same in 10/20/30/50/100 years.

 

You ask, who knows what would happen after independence. Isn't that the key problem? No one does really know, despite all the political bluster going on. It's quite a gamble, to trust politicians' promises to vote for something you can't change your mind about five years later if it turns out they were spinning you a line or at best being hopelessly optimistic.

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Anyone over 50 should not be allowed a vote on this. Because when the S hits the fan they will be long gone.

Bloody foreigners

 

That makes the assumption that people only vote in their best interests and not what is best for society. Perhaps I give people too much credit but I have always assumed it was the other way around (perhaps not for Tories though).

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That makes the assumption that people only vote in their best interests and not what is best for society. Perhaps I give people too much credit but I have always assumed it was the other way around (perhaps not for Tories though).

I was only joking but seeing as you mention it, I bet most of them are more concerned with being the men who 'did it' than whether it ends up being a shambles.

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You ask, who knows what would happen after independence. Isn't that the key problem? No one does really know, despite all the political bluster going on. It's quite a gamble, to trust politicians' promises to vote for something you can't change your mind about five years later if it turns out they were spinning you a line or at best being hopelessly optimistic.

There was a line from James Mcavoy that I liked. Essentially, it was don't vote one way or another because a politician tells you this will be better or that will be worse, or that he's going to do X/Y/Z in the future. Do it because you genuinely feel that Scotland should be independent or that it should be part of the UK.

 

I'm not in Scotland so have no idea how many people will be thinking along those lines. But I think they should be.

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Quite possibly the most patronising political video of the 21st century!

 

Maybe they were thinking of this one:

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I'll get to vote in three weeks, and I must admit to feeling pretty anxious as I am genuinely split on which way to vote.

I have no idea which is the more sensible vote, and I dont want patriotism to be my decision maker, like so many people are doing.

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